[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by shady_lawyer

Jazz i-DTEC. Now why is Honda India, shipping a Diesel Jazz to Japan? Also a sneak preview into the pricing perhaps, if the export value can be taken as an approximation of the ex-showroom price.
The "E" trim get you 1 airbag+abs+ebd {I'm comparing the safety features here, especially since Hyundai is known to stuff its vehicles with features compared to any other manufacturer} The comparable elite i20 is the Sportz 1.4 CRDI which ex-showroom is Rs. 7.44 lakhs. Thus the Jazz i-DTEC in E Trim will be Rs. 40k more expensive and have lesser features (assuming Honda carries over the E Trim as found in the City) compared to the Elite i20 Sportz CRDI. This promises exciting times ahead!

Sir, I don't think we should read too much based on the price mentioned in there. I had also seen this a couple of days back in Zauba and reason why I did not bother to post it here is because I had seen prices for Exported City also. I don't think there is any relation between the ex-showroom price and the price mentioned for export. Case in point, 3 Honda City cars - all 3 VX iDTECs but having different prices. I have attached the picture below.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Hopefully not! 7.8L for the diesel EMT will translate to 6.8L or at the max 6.5L starting price for the petrol EMT. At this price, it would be overpriced against competition from all corners of the market.

7.8L for EMT diesel will definitely be overpriced and same is the case with 6.5 L for EMT petrol. However, as I pointed above, I think we should not read too much into the export price mentioned. Fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Hot hatch market- In comparison, i20 range starts at 4.99L. We'll only see history repeat itself once again.

Sedan market - City range starts at 7.45L for the petrol EMT. A one lakh margin is too less for the Jazz considering the huge brand name City enjoys in India.

Hopefully you meant "premium" and not "hot" hatchbacks. And Yes, Elite i20 Era costs 5.3+L ex-showroom Bangalore and 5.2+L in Delhi. 4.99L was probably the introductory price.

Exactly my point. City costs 7.5L for 1.5L iVTEC which attracts a higher duty + has a bigger motor. So the Jazz with 1.2L iVTEC will at least be 1.5 to 2L cheaper than City. Or at least, it SHOULD be. That will be 5.5 to 6L which I think is very reasonable. Especially when compared to the lethargic 1.2 Kappa of i20. If i20 has better build, Honda has a better engine and a better image. Jazz will be more spacious too. All other factors are pretty much the same.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Practicality market- Ertiga with an extra row of seats and a 1.4L petrol engine starts at 5.89L for the range! Even the Mobilio with the 1.5 iVTEC starts at 6.49L.

I agree. Even though the target customers for Ertiga and Jazz are entirely different, there will be some movement from Jazz to Ertiga. But I dont think it will be a huge number or a decisive factor in deciding Jazz's fate.

Why I say this is Ertiga vs Elite i20 would also have come into picture for many customers and if many went for practicality alone, i20 would not see the sales numbers that we see today. Again, I am very sure a small percent of people who considered i20 would have gone for Ertiga and that number will probably be slightly higher for Jazz, but again, IMO it will not be huge enough to worry Honda.

Originally Posted by adimicra

If Honda matches the I20 in features, I think they will price it a bit higher given some of the advantages of the Jazz over the I20 like - passenger space, boot space, flexibility, better engine (petrol for sure) etc. Sorry to say, but the I20 petrol does feel very anemic in the open highways with a pretty dismal power to weight ratio.

In reality, I think Honda will price the Jazz similar to the I20 but drop a few features here and there. In that case, I think Honda has a winner on their hands unless they skimp too much on the features.

I agree Adi. Personally I would prefer Jazz to offer good features and I would not mind to pay even if it is slightly more expensive than i20. However, my sentiments may not be the market's and Honda might decide to drop some features and price Jazz neck to neck with i20. And Yes, Honda's engine and brand image alone will justify the price (How else does the grossly over-priced Mobilio manage to sell 2.5k monthly). Considering the passenger and boot space + practicality, it will definitely be worth the money.

[@KP]

Another update from another Honda sales guy (he moved from a certain European car maker to Japanese car maker recently) - there is a talk of launching Jazz in mid-May to early-jun; training/media drives being planned for April

In the meantime, they are contacting Honda enthusiasts if they would be interested in CNG version of Amaze

[drmohitg]

How many of you think there will be a decent amount of cross shopping between the Jazz/Elite i20 vs Ecopsort/upcoming Hyundai ix25? Personally I feel they will all figure out together on most of the buyer's lists in this segment. And Honda should take the first mover advantage by launching the Jazz before Hyundai launched the ix25.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

And Honda should take the first mover advantage by launching the Jazz before Hyundai launched the ix25.

Jazz coming in June/July 2015 earlier reported by ET seems coming true.

Jazz will surely be launched before Hyundai's ix25 since the launch is expected late 2015 ( Sep/Oct -15)

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/45696898.cms

[ampere]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

How many of you think there will be a decent amount of cross shopping between the Jazz/Elite i20 vs Ecopsort/upcoming Hyundai ix25? Personally I feel they will all figure out together on most of the buyer's lists in this segment. And Honda should take the first mover advantage by launching the Jazz before Hyundai launched the ix25.

Jazz/i20/I20 Cross/Ecosport: cross shopping yes. And Duster/Terrano/IX25 I doubt would be in a different league from a price point of view. IX25 today I am placing in the higher price bracket. But time will tell as to how they price it. Cross shopping today will happen only and only based on price segmentation.

[sukhoi]

Originally Posted by adimicra

If Honda matches the I20 in features, I think they will price it a bit higher given some of the advantages of the Jazz over the I20 like - passenger space, boot space, flexibility, better engine (petrol for sure) etc. Sorry to say, but the I20 petrol does feel very anemic in the open highways with a pretty dismal power to weight ratio.

i20 is a tough act to match in terms of features I guess. It provides a lot of them (usefulness of all is a different matter of debate though).

When I was planning to buy a car (hatchback) in 2011, Jazz was a top contender. Simply loved the car, especially the feeling of spaciousness in the car and its looks and design. Also liked the fact that Honda was providing safety features (airbags, ABS etc.) in all variants. But the pricing was too high and hence I moved to i20 (Honda cut the prices substantially within a few months of my purchase and I was very upset with them, could they not have done this a few months earlier and gained another customer). I have not driven a Jazz on highways so cannot comment on that but yes the i20 does struggle on the highways a bit, especially if you have the AC on and fully occupied.

Remember that there was talks (speculations maybe) of Honda putting in the 1.5 ltr petrol engine in Jazz and launching a sporty version, similar to the Polo 1.6 (or was it the Fabia). Folks on TBHP, myself included, were keen to get that pairing but it never saw the light of the day (possibly due to pricing). Would we get one such variant as well this time around? Honda Jazz, the Enthusiast Variant (EV) maybe

[@KP]

Originally Posted by ampere

Jazz/i20/I20 Cross/Ecosport: cross shopping yes. And Duster/Terrano/IX25 I doubt would be in a different league from a price point of view. IX25 today I am placing in the higher price bracket. But time will tell as to how they price it. Cross shopping today will happen only and only based on price segmentation.

I will add Ertiga to the list. So, in my view cross shopping will happen in

Jazz / i20 / Ecosport / Ertiga

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

How many of you think there will be a decent amount of cross shopping between the Jazz/Elite i20 vs Ecopsort/upcoming Hyundai ix25? Personally I feel they will all figure out together on most of the buyer's lists in this segment. And Honda should take the first mover advantage by launching the Jazz before Hyundai launched the ix25.

Definitely yes Dr sir. And S-Cross can also be included in the list. Price-wise, S-Cross and iX25 will be more expensive compared to Ecosport and the premium hatchbacks in contention here.

Almost everyone who consider Jazz will consider i20, i20 Cross, Ecosport, iX25 and S-Cross. At least I do. I am not considering Ecosport though. All of these will have some price overlap and also have space and practicality benefits.

I always feel that Honda should have taken the first mover advantage by launching Jazz before Elite i20 i.e. the time when they launched the Mobilio. Now it is too late. Jazz will have to fight it out with the well-settled and blockbuster i20. Anyways, they should not delay it further and launch it before iX25 at least.

Originally Posted by volkman10

Jazz coming in June/July 2015 earlier reported by ET seems coming true.

Jazz will surely be launched before Hyundai's ix25 since the launch is expected late 2015 ( Sep/Oct -15)

This is an old article, which I guess was posted here before also. I don't know the authenticity of this article but guess the timeframe of Jun / July is pretty correct. I wish Jazz is launched by Apr / May though.

Originally Posted by sukhoi

i20 is a tough act to match in terms of features I guess. It provides a lot of them (usefulness of all is a different matter of debate though).

Why not? When the City was about to launch late 2013, people said the same. It will not be possible for Honda to give features like Verna along with a decent price-tag. But that is exactly what Honda did. A lot of useful features + a very good introductory price. That was one reason City sold like hot cakes pushing Verna down the drain. Also V and VX trim were of high demand especially because of the feature-set.

Originally Posted by sukhoi

Remember that there was talks (speculations maybe) of Honda putting in the 1.5 ltr petrol engine in Jazz and launching a sporty version, similar to the Polo 1.6 (or was it the Fabia). Folks on TBHP, myself included, were keen to get that pairing but it never saw the light of the day (possibly due to pricing). Would we get one such variant as well this time around? Honda Jazz, the Enthusiast Variant (EV) maybe

How I wish this becomes true, at least this time around. My dream combo would be Jazz + 1.5L iVTEC + CVT at 9.5 to 10L OTR. Let them call the variant whatever they want RS or EV or whatever. That combination would be really rocking. Even a top end Jazz + 1.5L iVTEC + CVT for 9L OTR will be a good buy.

[sukhoi]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

Why not? When the City was about to launch late 2013, people said the same. It will not be possible for Honda to give features like Verna along with a decent price-tag. But that is exactly what Honda did. A lot of useful features + a very good introductory price. That was one reason City sold like hot cakes pushing Verna down the drain. Also V and VX trim were of high demand especially because of the feature-set.

Hello Vigkey, I did not mean that Honda cannot match the feature set of i20 or any other car out there. I was drawing on the comparisons between the then Jazz and i20 wherein Honda had not matched the features of i20 (electric folding ORVM, indicators on ORVM, seat height adjustment, Bluetooth and a few others) and implied that would they match this time around as well or not and still price it appropriately (features should not cause a very high price rise). To their credit though, they did provide ABS, dual front airbags across all variants (safety first). I still maintain that it is one of the top hatchbacks around and had it not been for the pricing, it would have done so much better.

Originally Posted by Vigkey

How I wish this becomes true, at least this time around. My dream combo would be Jazz + 1.5L iVTEC + CVT at 9.5 to 10L OTR. Let them call the variant whatever they want RS or EV or whatever. That combination would be really rocking. Even a top end Jazz + 1.5L iVTEC + CVT for 9L OTR will be a good buy.

Totally agree with you on that one mate, would be a dream come true. But from Honda's standpoint, maybe they are thinking that the average buyer would not be that keen on a 1.5 L engine and would be happy with a 1.2L engine as long as the overall package and pricing suits his/her needs.

[@KP]

Originally Posted by sukhoi

Totally agree with you on that one mate, would be a dream come true. But from Honda's standpoint, maybe they are thinking that the average buyer would not be that keen on a 1.5 L engine and would be happy with a 1.2L engine as long as the overall package and pricing suits his/her needs.

Originally Posted by Vigkey

How I wish this becomes true, at least this time around. My dream combo would be Jazz + 1.5L iVTEC + CVT at 9.5 to 10L OTR. Let them call the variant whatever they want RS or EV or whatever. That combination would be really rocking. Even a top end Jazz + 1.5L iVTEC + CVT for 9L OTR will be a good buy.

Almost convinced that Honda may not make your wishes/dreams come true. Max that can possible happen would be a 1.2 CVT - again just speculation only.

It's case of who will take the risk and create a sub-segment called "true hot-hatch"... My vote was for VW and they didn't disappoint. But the diesel AT OTR price is 10L +. Would be interesting to see how many vehicles in that variant did VW really sell. That will give an idea of the market potential for this segment. Is that info available on public domain?

[Vigkey]

Originally Posted by sukhoi

Totally agree with you on that one mate, would be a dream come true. But from Honda's standpoint, maybe they are thinking that the average buyer would not be that keen on a 1.5 L engine and would be happy with a 1.2L engine as long as the overall package and pricing suits his/her needs.

Average buyer is never gonna go for the 1.5L iVTEC as it will be expensive by at least a lakh for the same feature set (because of the bigger engine + additional duty involved). But I think Honda needs to stop playing safe and explore the new territories. If they can have the cosmetic RS version for Mobilio, why not a real one for Jazz?? And this is not about a new Engine or Gearbox. It is all existing. They just need to take a plunge and plonk it into the Jazz. Fiat is "almost" doing it in the Punto. Volkswagen has done that already in the Polo. Toyota has done it in the Liva. It will not be run-away successes, but they are giving the right message to the customer. Giving them options to choose. More power at a higher cost. That is all.

Originally Posted by @KP

Almost convinced that Honda may not make your wishes/dreams come true. Max that can possible happen would be a 1.2 CVT - again just speculation only.

It's case of who will take the risk and create a sub-segment called "true hot-hatch"... My vote was for VW and they didn't disappoint. But the diesel AT OTR price is 10L +. Would be interesting to see how many vehicles in that variant did VW really sell. That will give an idea of the market potential for this segment. Is that info available on public domain?

Not only VW, Toyota has also done it with the Liva Sportivo. So Honda is not going into unexplored areas. They will just follow what VW and Toyota has already done and what Fiat is going to do. i20 Auto also came with a bigger petrol engine, which is not in production now though.

I am sure that GTs would be even less than 5% of the Polos sold. But then, I don't think they will be worried too much. It is a differentiation and the people who love it will buy it. By the way, Honda enjoys a bigger market share than all of VW, Fiat and Toyota and if they go with the 1.5L iVTEC option in Jazz, they are more likely to succeed than the competition. They can sell it saying "This has the same powerful engine as the City. Now, the Jazz is the same powerful City without the boot". I am sure it will have a decent demand.

Now, I don't want to get into the "hot hatch" discussion bringing in Jazz's driving dynamics and steering. But having driven the City, I would love to have the same engine in Jazz as well. Will be super-awesome in both City and highways considering the higher torque and power-to-weight figures.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Vigkey

Now, I don't want to get into the "hot hatch" discussion bringing in Jazz's driving dynamics and steering. But having driven the City, I would love to have the same engine in Jazz as well. Will be super-awesome in both City and highways considering the higher torque and power-to-weight figures.

+1. They can and should bring the 1.5 version of the Jazz. Over the last year, the hot hatch market has really started growing in India. And a lot of buyers including myself would be little reluctant to put that much money on a VAG car but might be able to do the same with a Honda. And there the price does not matter as you are not looking at volumes but rather brand built up and perception.

[damager21]

Finally Honda seems to be preparing launch of Jazz in India. This month they exported 3 variants of Jazz diesel to Japan. Most likely these were exported to HO for production review and approval.

As can be seen, Jazz diesel will be available in 3 variants - E, S and SV. We don't know if there are more variants but most likely Honda will stick to only 3 variants.



India has become the manufacturing hub for Jazz launched in South Africa. As we know, only petrol variant of Jazz is available in South Africa. So this diesel variant has to be for India.

[deepakv]

Originally Posted by damager21

Finally Honda seems to be preparing launch of Jazz in India. This month they exported 3 variants of Jazz diesel to Japan. Most likely these were exported to HO for production review and approval.

As can be seen, Jazz diesel will be available in 3 variants - E, S and SV. We don't know if there are more variants but most likely Honda will stick to only 3 variants.

Attachment 1341635

India has become the manufacturing hub for Jazz launched in South Africa. As we know, only petrol variant of Jazz is available in South Africa. So this diesel variant has to be for India.

Why is the declared value the same for all 3 variants? :O

[satyaanveshi]

Originally Posted by sukhoi

I was drawing on the comparisons between the then Jazz and i20 wherein Honda had not matched the features of i20 (electric folding ORVM, indicators on ORVM, seat height adjustment, Bluetooth and a few others)

I have a 3 year old Jazz-X and it does have electrically folding ORVMs and driver's seat height adjustment.

What I would really like to see in the upcoming Jazz is a variant with additional safety features - ESP/VSA and 6 airbags. That seems very unlikely though.