[coolmel]

Now that the Jazz is inching closer to our shores, some doubts still remain. The first one being the fabled 1.5L i-vtec mill. They will for sure give it the 1.2 as earlier, maybe give it some tweaks here and there. But if they are considering giving it the 1.5, oh well, some serious competition is incoming. Also, the Magic seats are now called Ultra seats. Neat change of name! As for the rest, it carries over the same super functionality from its predecessor, so that will be a win win. One more thing to watch out for will be the insulation with the i-dtec motor. Not expecting much here. At the same time keen to know how well does it ride now, after having heard it has been tested to be benchmarked with the Polo.

Last but not the least, the price which could be little higher than the Brio, but nearly touching the Amaze' mark. If not priced on a parallel with the Amaze. You better do it well this time Honda and hope you've learnt from your mistakes from the last outing.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by coolmel

Now that the Jazz is inching closer to our shores, some doubts still remain. The first one being the fabled 1.5L i-vtec mill. They will for sure give it the 1.2 as earlier, maybe give it some tweaks here and there. But if they are considering giving it the 1.5, oh well, some serious competition is incoming.

Honda last year announced a new line up petrol engines. These are of 1.0L, 1.5L and 2.0L capacity all with turbo chargers. I would have loved to see 1.0L engine in the new Jazz but unfortunately it will be available only in 2016. Maybe India will get it a year or two later. They also announced a 8 speed dual-clutch transmission with a torque converter and that would be more fun to drive than the current CVT offering.

Following are some more snaps from the media drive in Thailand
Source: Autofreaks .net

[Hayek]

I think the mistake Honda made last time was launching the Jazz with the junk 1.2 l engine. They should stick to the 1.5 for the petrol and get a diesel in for the price conscious. The Jazz deserves the same price as a City.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I think the mistake Honda made last time was launching the Jazz with the junk 1.2 l engine. They should stick to the 1.5 for the petrol and get a diesel in for the price conscious. The Jazz deserves the same price as a City.

Absolutely correct. The right thing to do would be to have the 1.5L engine and not the 1.2. They should try to distinguish the Jazz from the Brio and Amaze.

If they put the 1.2L engine people will look at the Amaze as the pseudo boot/sedan will tempt buyers.

The Jazz is based on City platform, so it is ok to price it along with the Amaze and plonk in a bigger motor to have the premium tag.

Only issue I see is they will lose the excise benefit since displacement will be 1500cc.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The Jazz is based on City platform, so it is ok to price it along with the Amaze and plonk in a bigger motor to have the premium tag.

So, you expect the Jazz to priced at par with the Amaze, even with the bigger 1.5 motor?

Even if both cars have the same 1.2 engine, the Jazz deserves a premium of 40-50K over the Amaze just for the huge difference in quality in terms of -build quality, interior design and quality, usability/flexibility etc.

I have used my friend's Amaze several times and every time I step in the Amaze, I feel it's a grade lower than the Jazz.

I understand the aam junta's fixation for the boot and the 'big car' tag and that's the reason an Amaze might be more attractive to them if Jazz is priced similarly. But, the discerning urban buyer (the types who will go for a Jazz anyways) will any day prefer a Jazz over Amaze.

Look at Hyundai - they priced the Xcent just below the I20 or at par - din't they?


I would love Honda to stuff the Jazz with lots of features and make it a true premium offering rather than position it as a volume seller (it's never gonna be a volume seller I believe).

The 1.5Motor isn't coming to the Jazz..it's just wishful thinking

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by adimicra

So, you expect the Jazz to priced at par with the Amaze, even with the bigger 1.5 motor?

Even if both cars have the same 1.2 engine, the Jazz deserves a premium of 40-50K over the Amaze just for the huge difference in quality in terms of -build quality, interior design and quality, usability/flexibility etc.

It is that thinking that resulted in the Jazz being a flop in the first place. So if they don't want to repeat history and make the same mistake twice they should be looking at pricing it along with the Amaze.

Isn't that what Hyundai have done with the i20 and Xcent? The i20 CRDI is priced on par with the Xcent but the Xcent gets a 3 cylinder 1.0L diesel motor vs the 1.4L 90Ps motor in the i20. Performance of the i20 is in a different league vs the Xcent yet they are very close on pricing.

And looking at how Honda have priced the City, they don't have much of a choice. Even the Mobilio will probably slot in below the City. Now imagine a buyer looking at Jazz when he finds he can get Amaze for lesser and Mobilio for a little more or even City.

The Jazz will be back to being middle of nowhere.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Isn't that what Hyundai have done with the i20 and Xcent? The i20 CRDI is priced on par with the Xcent but the Xcent gets a 3 cylinder 1.0L diesel motor vs the 1.4L 90Ps motor in the i20. Performance of the i20 is in a different league vs the Xcent yet they are very close on pricing.

You are wrong.

The I20 petrol is priced slightly higher than Xcent (comparing the base models).
Hyundai i20 Era 1.2 - 4.81 Lakhs
Hyundai Xcent Base 1.2 - 4.66 lakhs

The I20 diesel is priced significantly higher than Xcent diesel.
Hyundai Xcent Base 1.1 CRDi - 5.57 lakhs
Hyundai i20 Era 1.4 CRDI -5.95 Lakhs
-------------------------

Now, the Xcent still has advantage of have a much larger boot than I20.
The Amaze does not have that advantage over the Jazz..boot space is similar and the Jazz offers more flexibility.

Also, the difference in quality between Jazz and Amaze is more than the difference in quality between I20 and Xcent (my opinion, subjective).

So, as I said, the difference of 40-50K over Amaze is justified.

The earlier Jazz was priced way way higher than the competition...Honda is not gonna do that this time. I believe the pricing will be quite close to I20, albeit slightly higer.Also, the earlier Jazz din't have any base version so to say which made it appear more costly. This time Honda is gonna have several versions including the bare bones base trims to lure more people.

Some cars are not meant to be chart-toppers and Jazz is one of them, at least for the India market.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It is that thinking that resulted in the Jazz being a flop in the first place. So if they don't want to repeat history and make the same mistake twice they should be looking at pricing it along with the Amaze.

I am quite sure that Honda will price diesel Jazz on par with Amaze. Maybe like Hyundai, they will charge a 30k premium over Amaze.

Xcent base diesel variant is priced at 5.6 lacs while Hyundai i20 base diesel variant is priced at 5.94 lacs - a difference of 34k.

Given this, I dont see 1.5L petrol engine making it to Jazz. People would want to see a difference of at least 75k between petrol & diesel cars and Honda will not manage to do that given 12% extra excise they would have to pay for a bigger petrol unit.

So while diesel car prospects would benefit with aggressive pricing for Jazz, petrol car prospects would loose out with a smaller capacity engine.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by adimicra

You are wrong.

The I20 petrol is priced slightly higher than Xcent (comparing the base models).
Hyundai i20 Era 1.2 - 4.81 Lakhs
Hyundai Xcent Base 1.2 - 4.66 lakhs

The I20 diesel is priced significantly higher than Xcent diesel.
Hyundai Xcent Base 1.1 CRDi - 5.57 lakhs
Hyundai i20 Era 1.4 CRDI -5.95 Lakhs
-------------------------

Well I am not wrong cause unlike you I was not comparing the base models. I was looking at the top end trims cause manufacturers are known to strip the low end trims just to market lower starting price. Not knowing exact features difference between the Xcent and i20 base model I took prices of the top end Xcent SX(O) and i20 Asta. Both with similar safety features as well as gadgets as an equal comparo. So neither are you wrong or myself.

Petrol:
Hyundai Xcent 1.2 SX(O) - 6.5L (ex-showroom Delhi)
Hyundai i20 1.2 Asta - 6.31L (I am considering Asta and not Asta (O) as Asta (O) is with side/curtain airbags as well as sunroof which is not there in Xcent)

Diesel:
Hyundai Xcent 1.0 CRDI - 7.41L
Hyundai i20 1.4CRDI Asta - 7.52L

In the diesel I agree there is 11K difference but that's cause engines are different and just 11K for one extra cylinder and 6 speed gearbox plus more features is nowhere considered premium.

Now, the Xcent still has advantage of have a much larger boot than I20.
The Amaze does not have that advantage over the Jazz..boot space is similar and the Jazz offers more flexibility.

If it was down to boot space alone, then the Dzire and Swift would have seen lowest sales.

Also, the difference in quality between Jazz and Amaze is more than the difference in quality between I20 and Xcent (my opinion, subjective).

I agree it's subjective but the difference is i20 is much better than Xcent whereas the Amaze is very poor well below the Xcent. The Jazz going by what we saw in the Auto expo and the new City will be just about acceptable. Too much cost cutting. The older Jazz has better interiors than what we saw in Auto Expo and that was imported model. Expect cost cutting in India which means better than Amaze for sure but not premium stuff for sure.

So, as I said, the difference of 40-50K over Amaze is justified

The earlier Jazz was priced way way higher than the competition...Honda is not gonna do that this time. I believe the pricing will be quite close to I20, albeit slightly higer.Also, the earlier Jazz din't have any base version so to say which made it appear more costly. This time Honda is gonna have several versions including the bare bones base trims to lure more people.

If they do put the 1.5 petrol the 40-50K is justified else it will tough as buyers will either go to Amaze or upgrade to a city.

Take a look at the pricing between Amaze and City.

Honda Amaze 1.2P VX-Mt - 6.64L
Honda City 1.5P E MT - 7.19L

The difference is 55K between a top end Amaze and base model City. The base E City gets single airbag as well as ABS.

Now as per your logic, you think it's ok for Honda to charge 40-50K over Amaze which basically means price the top spec Jazz on par with the base model City and with the 1.2L petrol engine.

Now lets see the diesel.

Honda Amaze 1.5D VX-MT - 7.49L
Honda City 1.5D E MT - 8.37L

Here the difference is 88K and a difference of 40K could work but hopefully Honda puts the 6 speed gearbox from the city and not the 5 speed from Amaze. The 6 speed was there in the Auto expo so the chances are higher.

Now remember in all this the Mobilio is expected this month and is supposed to be priced between the Amaze and City.

Some cars are not meant to be chart-toppers and Jazz is one of them, at least for the India market.

You can call them niche but they are usually known as flop models. If the car is not selling in numbers then the manufacturer is not doing the customer a favour by telling him pay more cause the car is niche and premium.

There were several people who thought that and bought the Jazz initially at the premium pricing. Once sales started to dwindle and Honda realised they had realised they had bitten off more than they could chew they got a facelift variant with substantially reduced pricing. By then it was classified as a flop model and no price reduction could save it.

[adimicra]

The price comparison would make sense if we consider the features, which frankly I can't do at this point of time.

Let us say that the Xcent and I20 is priced similarly.

All my argument is based on the fact that Jazz has far more premium quality. Now, you are saying the new Jazz will be nowhere as good as the current(old) one which I have. If that's the case, the premium is not justified. Otherwise, I expect it to be priced little higher than Amaze.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by adimicra

The price comparison would make sense if we consider the features, which frankly I can't do at this point of time.

Let us say that the Xcent and I20 is priced similarly.

I checked the features and the i20 has much more features than the Xcent. Diesel gets all round disc brakes. i20 has rain sensing wipers, auto headlights and some other features as well.

And the prices were from Hyundai website. The top end is indeed priced similar as can be seen from my earlier post.

All my argument is based on the fact that Jazz has far more premium quality. Now, you are saying the new Jazz will be nowhere as good as the current(old) one which I have. If that's the case, the premium is not justified. Otherwise, I expect it to be priced little higher than Amaze.

Yeah the older Jazz had even better interiors than the City! It had a different dash and interiors were definitely premium.

The new one which you can see from Auto expo thread here has the same interiors as the City. The one on display was surprisingly missing a lot of features. It might have been a lower trim.

[aim120]

The Jazz will have to be priced higher then the Amaze even if it had the 1.2l engine.
Apart from the better interiors ,Jazz has a lot more space on the inside and a similar sized boot compared to Amaze.
So highly unlikely that we will see a 1.5L Jazz and even if they do launch a 1.5L, it will we priced the same or more then the City.

[damager21]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Absolutely correct. The right thing to do would be to have the 1.5L engine and not the 1.2. They should try to distinguish the Jazz from the Brio and Amaze.

I was reading an article which was released by AutoCarPro on 4th April this year saying:
1. Mobilio will go into production in June
2. Mobilio will be made at Greater Noida plant
3. Jazz will go into production in July
4. Mobilio will be made in volumes of 45,000 per annum and Jazz will be made in volumes of 20,000 per annum

Now points 1 & 2 have come true but I am a bit skeptical about point 3 unless Honda has plans to launch Jazz during the festive season.

Jan / Feb 2015 seems to be the best bet for now given that Honda would want to well manage the demand and production of Mobilio for the next 6 months. Having said that, they have spare capacity at their Rajasthan plant where only Amaze is currently produced. So technically they can launch Jazz earlier as they should not have any capacity constraints.

The more important point I want to focus On is 4. It says that Jazz will be made in volumes of 20,000 per annum. Now if this is really the target which Honda is chasing, then I see a high possibility of Honda launching Jazz with 1.5L petrol engine and hence a premium price tag leading to lower volumes.


http://www.autocarpro.in/news-nation...-tapukara-5386

[damager21]

Yellow color Jazz looks smashing. I hope in India we don't see a compromise in quality of interiors and for AT variant we get 1.5L engine with CVT.

Post Mobilio launch we hope to see Jazz launch in October / November.

Source: Paultan.org

[damager21]

Honda launched the all new Jazz in Malaysia today where it will be available in 3 variants as follows:
S - INR 13.71 lacs (on road price)
E - INR 15.04 lacs (on road price)
V - INR 16.54 lacs (on road price)

The mileage claimed by Honda for 1.5L i-VTEC engine with CVT is 17.81 kmpl. The same for Honda City in Malaysia is 17.5 kmpl as compared to 17.9 kmpl in India. Given this, if Honda was to launch Jazz in India with 1.5L i-VTEC engine + CVT, we can expect a mileage of 18.2 kmpl. Now that would be awesome for an Automatic transmission.

Some of the cool features include Halogen headlights, LED tail lights, Ultra seat, G-CON, Side curtain airbags, Hill start assist, Emergency Stop Signal, Vehicle Stability Assist and Ultrasonic Sensor. Don't know which all of these will make it to India bound Jazz.

Following are details of the features and specs in Malaysia: