27th March 2013, 11:05 | #181 | |
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| Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Quote:
Dont all modern Common Rail engines use piezo electric injectors? I think the clear advantage of the liva is service costs and experience of ownership.This is a car a lady or a senior citizen can take for a service and be attended to nicely and have a trouble free experience. Engine wise the 1.3 multijet is at par or better. It is definitely on my shortlist.Along with the Sail. | |
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27th March 2013, 12:09 | #182 | |
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Kolkata
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| Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Quote:
Liva GD is Rs 6,59,585/- Cheap interior, lesser power, lesser refinement, lesser FE, no power window at the back for Figo, as you said. And cheaper in price by just about Rs 3000/- Doesn't make sense to me. I am a common man too. Last edited by subratasenn : 27th March 2013 at 12:27. | |
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27th March 2013, 12:18 | #183 | ||
Senior - BHPian | Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Quote:
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Got the suspension work done on Monday, 25 March 2013 at DSK, Bawdhan, Pune. Although I requested them to photograph the process, it was not possible due to the now stricter regulations, inspite of requesting their management. But they aptly addressed it and allowed me to observe the whole upgrade process. It is very simple actually and they don't even have to raise it up on lift much, just about a feet above the ground and they can easily access the suspension setup. Got only the front suspension setup changed in warranty and spacers of 1" added to the rear suspension. The following is what it is as it transpires now after seeing through and discussion with their authorities: 1. The front suspensions are replaced under warranty without any charges based upon frequent THUD feedback from customers. The part numbers and process is already published in earlier posts. 2. For normal personal use, for rear suspension, there is in warranty provision of adding spaces of 1" thickness at the top of the spring to give that extra height and sturdiness. This is stated to be sufficient for normal family use without having need for overloading on a daily basis with full occupancy and heavy luggage load. This is stated to suffice regular 1-2 occupants, city speed breakers, patchy roads and once in a while full load for outstation heavy usage. Thus, it is not advised to put this in the car if it is not heavily loaded on a daily basis. The present suspension is stated to have better soft ride at back as it is with addition of the spacers. I will observe the effect after I test drive it next extensively. 3. For heavy use in case of Taxis, Travels, Tourists Etioses they have come up with a new rear suspension design which is much harder than the present one. It is stated to give utterly hard suspension and only advised for really heavy load usage and not recommended for situations as in 2 above. If put on a regular use car, the car will bounce heavily at rear tossing away the comfort of the car. And IT IS OUT OF WARRANTY. Costs about Rs 3600/- incl taxes. So think carefully before going for them. Could not get the part number for this though. Either way, if you are opting for either or both upgrades, deal properly and allow for decent time to get the parts in stock as it seems to be on a case to case basis as the customer demands and not heavily stocked. Last edited by parsh : 27th March 2013 at 12:36. | ||
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27th March 2013, 12:29 | #184 | |
Distinguished - BHPian | Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Quote:
The Liva with 1.4 D4D is in a detuned state to aid the longetivity of the engine and linear power delivery. However, with the light weight of the cars the linear acceleration does help in making quick progress. Regular servicing costs should be quite cheap. But accidental repairs can turn out costly for Toyota vehicles. In the process of getting a table ready for the main diesel engines in the category stating the differences between the 1.4 D4D, 1.3 MJD, 1.4 TDCi, 1.5 Crdi and 1.5 DCi. | |
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27th March 2013, 12:38 | #185 | ||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bengaluru
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I've already mentioned that the swift DDiS is indeed more powerful. These are the engine characteristics of a liva. Liva is less powerful than Swift DDiS by 4% Liva offer better city drivability due to the combination of smaller turbo and bigger engine. Acceleration and deceleration is progressive and linear thanks to that excellent torque curve ( even the piezo electric injectors should have an impact here ) Peak torque is not just available on a single point, but over an rpm range from 1800 to 2400. This translates into predictable and consistent acceleration. Check out diesel engine torque curve shapes of Audi and BMW. You will find that they too design it this way but over a much wider range. The sail is a fantastic car ( if we ignore the service network and financial status of GM and their uncertain future ) | ||
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27th March 2013, 12:39 | #186 | |||||
Team-BHP Support | Quote:
If it is for the safety pack, then you still lose out on rear wiper, rear washer, audio system with bluetooth, fog lamps, distance to empty, tachometer, alloy wheels, seat height adjust, and some more extra features as well. Quote:
Also, the Etios/Liva engine codenamed the 1ND-TV is an engine that dates back to 2001. The technology is now pretty much ancient when it comes to technology with SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder. That too with a fixed geometry turbo rather than a VGT. The Multi Jet is pretty much the most modern engine out there in that segment. Ofcourse that will soon change with the i-DTEC Honda power plant. I don't think Toyota chose to invest the money elsewhere, they just decided not to invest at all in the first place. Quote:
Incase of Toyota it is the opposite. They are bleeding due to the Etios/Liva flop followed by the dwindling Altis numbers. The Fortuner and Innova are only think that are keeping the Toyota cash registers ringing. Quote:
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27th March 2013, 12:47 | #187 | |
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Kolkata
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| Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Quote:
I would rather go for a better engine and better brakes. Last edited by subratasenn : 27th March 2013 at 12:51. | |
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27th March 2013, 12:54 | #188 | ||||||||
Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Chennai
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| Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4)
Yes & No! Taxi cars = reliability & low cost of running, which adds to the positive aspect of the car. It also means what @KarthiKK has put down below, which is a BIG negative. Indica / Vista / Indigo / Verito / Innova are all examples of this. If you see this very forum, a lot of people strike these off their list (even after acknowledging these are nice cars) because of ONLY one reason - taxi badge!! Quote:
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I can go ahead one step and still be with you on the argument saying most of the buyers in the segment does NOT know the comparatively high service costs associated with the Maruti cars; but then what is Toyota doing to bring awareness among the masses? They should do it. Quote:
Now even a 1.4 TDCi or 1.3 MJD can easily do 1L kms without major work. So what is Toyota specially offering for these segment buyers over the TDCi / MJD? Lesser service cost? But then Toyota customers do pay a sales premium over these cars too right? Net effect ~ 0 ?? Quote:
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27th March 2013, 13:46 | #189 |
Senior - BHPian | Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) While the car work was in progress, I got a touch feel of the new launch, though could not go for a drive. 1. The plastics are absolutely the same, the same thickness, the material, the same grains, just the feel good vinyl layer treatment, nothing more IMO. On this side only DZire seems to have the real richness feel to interiors. 2. The speedometer though now blued and may look better to quite a few, still looks like a sticker, its the same essentially with different color combination. Atleast addition of the Tachometer by default would have done much good. 3. I have doubts about the front seats thicknesses being changed other than having adjustable headrests. Even the Sales Adviser was telling that the thickness is the same. Still to check properly comparatively. I did not feel much of a difference in the seating, though felt better support with adjustable headrests. 4. Some changes in the rear seat headrests, seem to have been raised and made bit chunkier, felt better support with the headrests. 5. Could not find any specific implementation for the NVH control all around. The dicky hatch door gets a padding probably just to hide the bare bones visible earlier. 6. Raise the boot and the corrugated sheet covering spare is same, the carpet usage the same all around and to the same extent. 7. ORVMs though look sleek and funky, seem to offer lesser view than earlier surely. 8. The Audio system looks way better than earlier cheap looking, but only looks. It still does not gel together well with the socket like the competition which have uniform unibody feel with the OEM fit and finish. 9. Welcome improvement would have been better front door speakers and addition of rear door speakers by default instead of need to put speakers on the parcel tray. 10. Good to see the warranty coverage for replacement of front suspension upgrade to new design and addition of spacers for rear suspension. On first feel, seems good to have upgraded but some extensive testing is required. Last edited by parsh : 27th March 2013 at 13:52. |
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27th March 2013, 15:44 | #190 | ||||||||||||||
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| Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Quote:
This is the comparo, I have for Figo/Liva Figo Positives Better NVH Control Meter - Tacho/Fuel status Alloy Wheels Looks good inside Liva Positives Better Drivability Better power delivery ( The Fiesta classic Felt really sluggish especially on trips to hills ) Sure slotting gears Better Driving Position Progressive Acceleration Ergonomics ( The speedo was useless for me, after I used the steering tilt on Fiesta. It cut right across the speedo and rpm meter ), the horn was so hard to press from a comfortable position while steering, the indicators accidentally turns on, if I'm not careful while using the dim/bright button carefully, The indicator button on the left side means you cannot turn it on while having your hand on gears. The travel for height adjustment of the new Liva is leagues ahead. Quote:
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In contrast, 30% of Toyota sales constitute flop model ( according to you ). Still they are financially healthy. So, I'm not sure how much of a flop they are. Now regarding sales, these are the numbers from February 2013 Figo - 3804 Fiesta - 503 Total - 4308 Etios - 2797 Liva - 1698 Total - 4495 While the hatchback version of Ford churns out good numbers, the sedan variant churns out pathetic numbers. And inspite of the fact that Liva doesn't offer a premium variant for Liva Diesel, the total sales still exceeds the Fiesta/Figo combination. Quote:
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Reasons are simple.
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They did it with Ertiga - But, that was by creating a new segment. Since, the month Ertiga was released, the sales that were most affected were Etios and Sunny. Both cars used to provide utility. But, then Ertiga provided more utility for a person looking for a sedan ( I don't consider the new Dzire as a sedan ). Quote:
As I've mentioned even in my ownership thread, the attitude of sales in Toyota is very cold. Go straight to a Maruti dealer after going to Toyota and you will understand the difference. Quote:
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Plastics - I've not heard of any Etios which has an issue with Plastics apart from the looks. And suddenly people even started saying plastic quality is much better as soon as Toyota just changed the colour combination. Centre console - While, it's not aesthetic. It's much more ergonomic than a side console. But yes, this did affect the sales of Etios. They could atleast come up with a better looking design. Quote:
The same is the case with Figo vs Swift as well. But, Figo happens to be a more complete hatch than Swift any day. It's the peculiarity of the Indian market that is making Swift a winner. In no other country was it able to replicate this performance. Last edited by amalji : 27th March 2013 at 15:50. | ||||||||||||||
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27th March 2013, 16:13 | #191 |
Team-BHP Support | Re: Toyota to launch the Etios and Liva facelift. EDIT : Launched (details on Page 4) Mod Note : Please continue the Liva 1.5L TRD Sportivo Discussion in Our Official Review. Thanks The Etios discussion may continue on its own Official Review Thread. Thread closed. |
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