[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Any idea where it is available and whats the landing cost?

I suppose you live in bangalore check out with bimal they will be more than happy to order one for you currently it is nearly 50% off on road though may vary according to taxes. Only cvt's are remaining. Only 2011 models.

But please check the link I had provided before purchasing as there is a problem with some of the 2011 models.

[rockporiom]

Hey guys I am facing a startup issue with my kizashi. The car doesn't start in a single button push. You can hear the crank but the engine is not starting up. It is only after multiple attempts that the engine starts. Also, got a service start system error that flashed for a couple of minutes and then went away. No reading in SDT. I am totally confused as to what is happening. Can it be that one of the injectors is clogged or a bad fuel pump? The SA told me that this would happen if the car is on a slope, which is a very stupid excuse according to me. What is worse is that my parking area is a completely flat surface so it eliminates the slope theory. Any idea as to what can be the cause and why is the code not being registered and shown in the SDT?

Kizashi startup issue

In the video it is not me who stops pushing the button. The car stops cranking even if the button is kept pressed.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

Hey guys I am facing a startup issue with my kizashi. The car doesn't start in a single button push. You can hear the crank but the engine is not starting up. It is only after multiple attempts that the engine starts. Also, got a service start system error that flashed for a couple of minutes and then went away. No reading in SDT. I am totally confused as to what is happening. Can it be that one of the injectors is clogged or a bad fuel pump?

Check the battery voltage while cranking. It could be possible that your battery is not able to provide the juice thus prematurely aborting the starting procedure.

Since the starter relay and the starter motor are fed by the same battery, ie car battery, the following happens when you hit the start button:
1. The starter relay is triggered by battery voltage.
2. The relay switches on the motor, again fed by the battery voltage.
3. Motor draws a lot of current from battery. If battery is nearing end of life, it cannot provide the current required. Thus battery voltage will drop.
4. Since battery voltage drops, the starter relay also gets switched off, thus killing power to the starting motor, like a cycle.
5. Once motor gets cutoff, battery voltage will come back to normal.

I noticed in your video that the instrument cluster fades out while cranking. Does this always happen?

In short, get the battery checked. Usually this problem will be prominent if the electricals are on such as blower, ICE etc.

The reason why you got the error could be due to the same reason, ie a faulty battery. Since battery voltage will be improper, the sensors will not receive the apt voltage required, and hence the ECU will get the wrong data from sensors.

It may be stupid but I found out this issue from my dio because due to a weak battery, the starter motor would act in the same way as your kizashi Due to non usage, the battery had lost its juice which led to incomplete cranking.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Check the battery voltage while cranking. It could be possible that your battery is not able to provide the juice thus prematurely aborting the starting procedure.

Since the starter relay and the starter motor are fed by the same battery, ie car battery, the following happens when you hit the start button:
1. The starter relay is triggered by battery voltage.
2. The relay switches on the motor, again fed by the battery voltage.
3. Motor draws a lot of current from battery. If battery is nearing end of life, it cannot provide the current required. Thus battery voltage will drop.
4. Since battery voltage drops, the starter relay also gets switched off, thus killing power to the starting motor, like a cycle.

In short, get the battery checked. Usually this problem will be prominent if the electricals are on such as blower, ICE etc.

The reason why you got the error could be due to the same reason, ie a faulty battery. Since battery voltage will be improper, the sensors will not receive the apt voltage required, and hence the ECU will get the wrong data from sensors.

It is practically impossible that the battery is nearing the end of it's life because it was changed when the car was delivered to me since it is a common practice to change battery when the car has remained standing for more than six months.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

It is practically impossible that the battery is nearing the end of it's life because it was changed when the car was delivered to me since it is a common practice to change battery when the car has remained standing for more than six months.

It can be practically possible for you to have been given a battery with a manufacturing defect, if not practically possible for you to have been given a used battery.

Have you ruled it out by checking the battery? Check the voltage when the starter motor kicks in, preferably when the engine is cold. When you have driven the car for some distance you may not experience this problem.

A faulty battery IMO is a lot easy to diagnose and repair compared to something other than that, so pray that its the battery at fault.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by audioholic

It can be practically possible for you to have been given a battery with a manufacturing defect, if not practically possible for you to have been given a used battery.

Have you ruled it out by checking the battery? Check the voltage when the starter motor kicks in, preferably when the engine is cold. When you have driven the car for some distance you may not experience this problem.

The battery was removed from a sealed box in front of me so it can't be an old battery but the manufacturing defect point cannot be ruled out. Need to check the voltage while startup as recommended by you.

The problem occured when I was parking after a drive with my friends when the car was going off on its own and it went completely off after parking. It is then that I took the video. Also, the horn tone is also changing slightly. The horn was changed under warranty due to a defect but the problem still persists though mitigated. It is possible that the battery is responsible for all of this.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

...The problem occured when I was parking after a drive with my friends when the car was going off on its own and it went completely off after parking. It is then that I took the video. Also, the horn tone is also changing slightly. The horn was changed under warranty due to a defect but the problem still persists though mitigated. It is possible that the battery is responsible for all of this.

Guess I am reading one too many issues with your car. Are you happy with the service centre's competency. Hope it was not a lemon.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Guess I am reading one too many issues with your car. Are you happy with the service centre's competency. Hope it was not a lemon.

There are only 2 issues with my car
1. Startup ( which has cropped up recently)
2. Brake disc ( replacement to arrive within a week)

The service center is quiet helpful and acknowledges the problem. They haven't been rude to me no matter how many times I have gone to them. I am satisfied with their service.



Futlrther have also realised that there is one more service bulletin stating that if there is thud sound while going on bad roads and the steering becomes insensitive the stabiliser bar and bushes need to be changed. This is done under warranty. So guys having this issue know what to look for.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by audioholic

It can be practically possible for you to have been given a battery with a manufacturing defect, if not practically possible for you to have been given a used battery.

Have you ruled it out by checking the battery? Check the voltage when the starter motor kicks in, preferably when the engine is cold. When you have driven the car for some distance you may not experience this problem.

A faulty battery IMO is a lot easy to diagnose and repair compared to something other than that, so pray that its the battery at fault.

Got the alternator and battery checked from my trustorthy mechanic. He says that both are fine. The startup issue has not recurred after that time nor has the error. Has the problem vanished all of a sudden? Can it be because of dirt in petrol?

[Shivraj88]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

Got the alternator and battery checked from my trustorthy mechanic. He says that both are fine. The startup issue has not recurred after that time nor has the error. Has the problem vanished all of a sudden? Can it be because of dirt in petrol?

Which petrol do you use? I hope you've been sticking to petrol with 91+Octane and not the regular stuff.

I've been following the problems you've been having from the day of delivery and I think you should stop driving the car and approach a consumer court to rectify the never ending issues with your car and get Maruti to give you a new car or refund your money.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by Shivraj88

Which petrol do you use? I hope you've been sticking to petrol with 91+Octane and not the regular stuff.

I've been following the problems you've been having from the day of delivery and I think you should stop driving the car and approach a consumer court to rectify the never ending issues with your car and get Maruti to give you a new car or refund your money.

I would have definately taken the matter to court had they behaved with me the way skoda behaves but they are ready to solve the problem and have made me speak higher authorites in maruti so I know that the problem has been escalated. Only problem is the time that is being taken to solve the issue.

Will wait for a couple of weeks and still if my problems aren't resolve then will have to take some action. The best part is I haven't had to mail maruti even once for the matter to be escalated. An FTR has been raised yesterday according to the workshop manager and he says the part would arrive soon since it has to be imported.

Will update as and when things happen. For the time being I have reduced driving the car to a great extent. Will start driving it again after the brakes are replaced.


Oh, and as for the fuel I am using normal petrol in the car. The service book didn't demand higher octane fuel. But after this incident will fill up next time with xtra premium or something similar and see.

[audioholic]

I bet its nothing to do with fuel. Basically the starter should cut off once engine speed crosses a set limit or the alternator starts providing voltage. In this case it cuts in too early, which will mean either the starter control circuit is faulty or it is not getting the needed power. That is why the cranking ends prematurely. Since the problem depends upon the state of charge of the battery, you wont experience it always.

The brakes and other components may show vibration, juddering because the car has been left standing initially. Its a good thing that they are acting on the issue and replacing parts. Doesnt mean that the car is as bad as demanding for a refund, and a lot better than dealing with Skoda.

[Chetan_Rao]

Can't the service center provide a spare test battery for a few days to either eliminate or confirm the battery as the source of the starting trouble? If the issue can be replicated with a different battery, they can then move on to the next part.

Emphasis should be on proper diagnosis by elimination, not assumption(s) based on the service center's experience (or lack thereof) with the model in question. Similar symptoms don't necessarily mean the same underlying problem.

I appreciate that they're being courteous, but it's not a substitute for competence, which is more important from your perspective right now.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Can't the service center provide a spare test battery for a few days to either eliminate or confirm the battery as the source of the starting trouble? If the issue can be replicated with a different battery, they can then move on to the next part.

Emphasis should be on proper diagnosis by elimination, not assumption(s) based on the service center's experience (or lack thereof) with the model in question. Similar symptoms don't necessarily mean the same underlying problem.

I appreciate that they're being courteous, but it's not a substitute for competence, which is more important from your perspective right now.

I agree with you that emphasis ought to be on proper diagnosis by elimination and not assumptions based on experience. And while the service center in Ahmadabad that Adithya is dealing with, is not very capable to handle issues with the Kizashi, the fact here, is that the problem has never occurred since. Thus recreating it would be of top priority and that would mean sticking to the same parts that were in the car at the time the problem showed up. It was the first, and so far the last time that this has happened to his car and he is merely wondering what it could have been and if it is anything he is doing that has a bearing on it (like the fuel he puts in or anything else) then there might be cause to worry.

Anyway, I always fill my petrol at trusted pumps where the quality of petrol is better or it is less adulterated (few select Indian Oil pumps, Shell, Essar) sometimes even going out of my way to do so. Do I really have to fill only premium fuel? If so can anyone explain exactly why since I am not driving a delicate supercar.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I agree with you that emphasis ought to be on proper diagnosis by elimination and not assumptions based on experience. And while the service center in Ahmadabad that Adithya is dealing with, is not very capable to handle issues with the Kizashi, the fact here, is that the problem has never occurred since. Thus recreating it would be of top priority and that would mean sticking to the same parts that were in the car at the time the problem showed up. It was the first, and so far the last time that this has happened to his car and he is merely wondering what it could have been and if it is anything he is doing that has a bearing on it (like the fuel he puts in or anything else) then there might be cause to worry.

Anyway, I always fill my petrol at trusted pumps where the quality of petrol is better or it is less adulterated (few select Indian Oil pumps, Shell, Essar) sometimes even going out of my way to do so. Do I really have to fill only premium fuel? If so can anyone explain exactly why since I am not driving a delicate supercar.

My suggestion about trying another battery (rather than random part service/ replacements) was only to ensure proper fault diagnosis is being done in the case mentioned above. If replication of the issue itself is a problem (as you say), then it needs further investigation by all means possible. It's not safe to assume the issue corrected itself just because it's not happened since.

As for fuel, best to follow manufacturer recommendations (if any). If nothing is specified, best to stick with trusted sources.