[.anshuman]

^^ The dynamics and road behaviour of both Punto and Linea are unmatched in their respective segments. Most people find it surprising whenever i say Punto soaks up bad roads better than most cars upto 15 lakh rupees. They have a clear edge in terms of Steering, ride and Handling but lose out on refinement, quality, badge value, real world performance(Polo Diesel not included in this) and ergonomics.

[sidindica]

2012 Linea VS Vento/ Rapid

What the linea has an edge:

• looks
• features
• higher GC
• proven engine
• solid build
• ride and handling
• above average cost of maintenance
• a wee bit more reliable mechanically
• refinement and NVH

Where the linea lacks:

• dicey resale value
• dicey after sales service
• build precision not in the league of VW/ skoda plus interior fittings need to be tightened up
• sluggish outright acceleration
• rear legroom not that much
• price to displacement ratio. needs a bigger engine.

What the vento has:

• Build precision and finish, though the linea FEELS more soild.
• outright performance
• better gearbox
• more interior volume and space plus comfort at rear
• understated looks
• interior quality and feel plus overall ambience
• ergonomics

What the vento lacks

• engine sounds like a tractor. way too noisy
• clutch pedal vibration
• heavy on maintenance bills, no free services offered
• fidgety ride and unsorted handling compared to linea
• again, dicey pre sales though after sales is rated to be OK
• doesn't feel solid or sure fitted as the fiat
• poor equipment and not many variants to choose from

Now, the skoda rapid is also a vento clone, but is priced cheaper and has more variants, though as an overall product finesse, the vento is still better.


Now, the situation is that both cars have their fair set of plus and minusses but still, granted that fiat has made improvements that have made linea an overall better product, its the price to engine specs ratio that gives the VW twins a distinct advantage. At the asking price of 8-10 lakhs, the engine should have been a 1.6, atleast in the emotion trim. For those buying linea, I still think that dynamic is the best choice.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

^^ The dynamics and road behaviour of both Punto and Linea are unmatched in their respective segments. Most people find it surprising whenever i say Punto soaks up bad roads better than most cars upto 15 lakh rupees. They have a clear edge in terms of Steering, ride and Handling but lose out on refinement, quality, badge value, real world performance(Polo Diesel not included in this) and ergonomics.

very much agree with you, but i have to disagree on the refinement part.

we have to split refinement into various parts to segregate between fiat and VW.

Plastics : VW is refined
Plastics fitment and finish: VW is refined
Exterior: both are refined.

Most important part- The Engine: Fiat is way way refined , smoother , less noisy. making more power doesnt make 1.6TDI refined at all. people are just having a perception the VW is king and everything is refined.

Clutch: Again Vento clutch is very crude, vibration are galore and you feel its a sumo clutch. Linea/punto has the most butter smooth clutch in all diesels that i have driven in the segment.

Suspensions and steering: Way more refined in fiat than VW

Paint: more refined in VW.

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Most important part- The Engine: Fiat is way way refined , smoother , less noisy. making more power doesnt make 1.6TDI refined at all. people are just having a perception the VW is king and everything is refined.

Yeah I guess its unfair to compare the Vento 1.6 TDI with the Linea 1.3 MJD but then both these cars claim to be in the same segment. The 1.6 MJD in the Linea would be a different ball game actually

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Clutch: Again Vento clutch is very crude, vibration are galore and you feel its a sumo clutch. Linea/punto has the most butter smooth clutch in all diesels that i have driven in the segment.

Actually there is a known issue on Ventos in the clutch and one of the TBHP owners got a replacement of I think the pipe which has gotten rid of the vibration. Quite like VW they are replacing when the customer is making a noise. Its not an issue with all Ventos but with some of them.

The gear box didnt seem refined at all on the Linea compared to the Vento. I had to make quite an effort to move the gears around and slot them properly and I felt it was crude on a TD car with only 300 km on it. I am more used to using a very smooth gear box and movement on the Vento.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

Actually there is a known issue on Ventos in the clutch and one of the TBHP owners got a replacement of I think the pipe which has gotten rid of the vibration. Quite like VW they are replacing when the customer is making a noise. Its not an issue with all Ventos but with some of them.

The gear box didnt seem refined at all on the Linea compared to the Vento. I had to make quite an effort to move the gears around and slot them properly and I felt it was crude on a TD car with only 300 km on it. I am more used to using a very smooth gear box and movement on the Vento.

ooh then i would also make noise and try to get that replacement. but i dont think the pipe kind of thing which you are mentioning is the problem. mine is just 1 month old vento.

yes sorry i forgot to mention on the gearbox.

Ventos gearbox, its ratios and the slotting - its just way perfect. linea has terrible gear ratios. the engine makes power but gearbox cannot utilise it.

i love maruti for the swift gearbox they mated with MJD engine.

[samarjitdhar]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

ooh then i would also make noise and try to get that replacement. but i dont think the pipe kind of thing which you are mentioning is the problem. mine is just 1 month old vento.

Although this is completely but you should check with Ricky and his experience here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...es-home-4.html for the clutch issue.

I was a little bit surprised with the gearbox on the 2012 Linea actually given that the car probably is the most perfect in terms of driving dynamics as experienced by everybody. I had anyway known about the sluggishness in terms of starting from standstill, what disappointed me was the 2012 one felt more sluggish than the 2011 I had TDed in Nov, 11 which I felt pretty okay in comparison.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

Although this is completely but you should check with Ricky and his experience here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...es-home-4.html for the clutch issue.

I was a little bit surprised with the gearbox on the Linea actually given that its probably the most perfect in terms of driving dynamics as experienced by everybody. I had anyway known about the sluggishness in terms of starting from standstill, what disappointed me was the 2011 Linea didnt feel as sluggish as the 2012 one.

to be frank the gear shift is not at all bad on linea. its just that it has bit longer and spongy throw than vento or swift. but slotting is precise and happens at tip of the fingers. dont know if the linea you drove had any specific problem.

my linea is done 17000 odd kms and is butter smooth and accelerates very rapidly. the gearshift is also perfect and never ever did i miss any shift or gear lever felt hard or got locked etc. never

and thanks for the vento link, i am sure something is wrong with the clutch on ventos. i will drive more ventos and check whether they have same problem

[Sivasankar]

Guys, i was going through the Fiat India for my daily fix of Linea when I saw that T Jet prices are not being listed anymore. Has the model been pulled out? attaching a picture for reference

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by Sivasankar

Guys, i was going through the Fiat India for my daily fix of Linea when I saw that T Jet prices are not being listed anymore. Has the model been pulled out? attaching a picture for reference

Heard that T-Jet manufacturing in 2012 is not yet commenced and it will not be until all the old stocks are cleared by the dealers. Grande Punto 90HP is available for 2012.

[Relativity]

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

Heard that T-Jet manufacturing in 2012 is not yet commenced and it will not be until all the old stocks are cleared by the dealers. Grande Punto 90HP is available for 2012.

Just to clarify, 90 HP manufactured in 2012 is available. But it's the same 2011 model. Unlike the 75HP, the new 90 HP is yet to be launched.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Sivasankar

..when I saw that T Jet prices are not being listed anymore. Has the model been pulled out?

Originally Posted by rameshnanda

Heard that T-Jet manufacturing in 2012 is not yet commenced and it will not be until all the old stocks are cleared by the dealers. Grande Punto 90HP is available for 2012.

The details of T-Jet & Punto 90HP are not available in the website! Not sure why! It only has info about the FIRE & 75 bhp on Punto & the FIRE & MJD variants of Linea!

[sarswift]

Originally Posted by Relativity

Just to clarify, 90 HP manufactured in 2012 is available. But it's the same 2011 model. Unlike the 75HP, the new 90 HP is yet to be launched.

90 HP model manufactured in Jan 2012 has increased gc. However officially its not 2012 model.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by vivekshukla

Definitely Linea has become an "extension of myself" too! Taking high speed U turns requires planning and driving skills and a car alone cannot to do that. But Linea helps build your confidence that you can do it and will not lose control of the car. I drive on Outer Ring Road from Sarjapur, Bangalore to Indira Nagar daily and I am able to take really small U turns at 30 - 40 kmph because I know that the steering is precise, brakes are good and there's very little body roll so when I finish the turn and leave the steering wheel to come back to its position, I am sure that it will not go else where.

Similarly on Domlur flyover coming from 100 ft road and going to M G Road, people in Bangalore who know, is a narrow U turn flyover. I have done 80 kmph on it on numerous occasions in my Linea. First time, I did my wife didn't even realise how fast we were as there's almost no body roll untill I told her about the speed. I am planning to push it further and do something between 85 and 90. I have tried this in a Honda City and I couldn't cross 50 kmph.

For all those who say that my Fiat does the U-turn at so and so speed and I will check it at an even faster pace please just think about what you are saying. Its sheer neglilence(I would also call it rash driving) on your part in trying this on a public road. The car might be able to handle it but all it takes is one mistake and you will be regretting that your entire life. If you really want try something like that please find a closed circuit. Public roads are not for testing your car's handling and steering prowess.

[hiren.mistry]

Took a test drive of the Punto Dynamic MJD last evening. And the car's ride and handling again amazed me no end.

Positives:
* Fabulous ride and handling
* The door shut with a thud giving a feeling of being cocooned in a tank
* The suspension just soaks up the bumps
* The car just takes off around 2K RPM
* Decent sized boot and 60:40 seat split (Maruti take note)

Negatives:
* The gearbox seems quite notchy
* The first 2 gears are extremely short, what was Fiat thinking?
* The pedals are too close to each other, my size 10 shoes were obstructed by the dead pedal.
* For such a big looking car the space management is quite poor.
* The gap between the wheel and wheel arch is massive.

The test drive was rather short and moreover the speedo was disconnected so could not see how fast I was going but one thing is for sure the car can mask speeds very well.

Taking a test drive of the Emotion model today, lets see how it goes. I was keen on the 90HP model but Fiat has priced it at 8.25L OTR Bombay while the 75HP Emotion is at 7.80L OTR Bombay.
No freebies except for a measly corporate discount.

Some conflicting news that I got regarding the 90HP model is that its essentially a 2011 model without any changes done, its just a 2012 manufactured car. I find this very hard to digest, given the rather low number why does Fiat want to run 2 assembly lines? It just beggars belief.

Now will take a call on whether to buy the Punto or not based on today's test drive.
Wish me luck.

Cheers

[jacksons]

Originally Posted by samarjitdhar

The gear box didnt seem refined at all on the Linea compared to the Vento. I had to make quite an effort to move the gears around and slot them properly and I felt it was crude on a TD car with only 300 km on it. I am more used to using a very smooth gear box and movement on the Vento.

Gear box smooths after some more mileage on the car and every car, say after 1000 km and also its getting used to it. No one can judge the car just after few Kms.