Team-BHP - The Premier 118 NE thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by KkVaidya (Post 2784352)

Why don't you check out the Viceroy Manual? It used to come with Radials as OE and except spacers there was no change in the suspension setup I believe.

As far as I can recollect, the Viceroy never came with radials as OE. They might have shown radial tyres for the pictures on the brochures but they never came with car. In fact the brochure also shows the front seats with head rests which never came with the car. The Viceroy user manual is the same as the 118 NE user manual. The only difference is PAL has been replaced with PPL. The tyre sizes and pressures are the same in both the user manuals i.e. for nylon tyres. The company never bothered to update the user manuals whenever required. :deadhorse The wiring diagram is the best example of inaccuracy. How many kilometers have you covered on your radials and how much is the approximate wear on them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KkVaidya (Post 2785457)

My car has clocked 8,200kms till now since the tyres were changed in 2004. I am attaching front & rear tyre pictures. They are as good as new

Thanks for the pics! They indeed are as good as new! :thumbs up I was out of town for a week. Had gone for a holiday in the PPL Viceroy. The route was Hyderabad - Coorg - Mysore - Bangalore - Hyderabad. Covered a total of 1960 kms.

For this trip, all the tyres (radials) were inflated to 34 PSI and got the best fuel economy on the Hyderabad - Bangalore NH7 at 15.60 kmpl with speeds varying between 75-100 kmph. On good roads, the ride felt normal. But near Coorg, during the local sight seeing, where there are some bad roads, I could feel more bumps as you had mentioned.

Last year in May, during my 1400 km trip to Horsley Hills and Talakona, the best fuel economy the car returned was 14.50 kmpl with the radials inflated to 26 PSI and on the same road i.e. Hyderabad - Bangalore NH7 and similar speeds.

As I mentioned in my previous post, if Suzuki recommends 30 PSI in all tyres for the Alto which weighs around 700 kgs, we need to find the correct pressure for radials used in the NE that weighs 900 kgs. Experts please: comment!

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.

Dear Mr.K.K.Vaidya - thanks for your gracious comments, I appreciate. It is good that you have implemented the solution. Yours is now the only 118NE in the country running with two vapour separators. However, following areas need immediate correction, please do it otherwise the car will not work properly.

1. Fuel Filter - Maruti Van fuel filter suitable for carburettor vehicle must be used. You have used the filter which came with the pump. This one does not meet NISSAN specification of 10 microns filter paper size and it will increase the load on the pump as it does not meet the pressure differential value specified by NISSAN (I don't remember the exact value but it failed the laboratory test miserably). The Maruti Van filter must be mounted vertically, the inlet being below the outlet. The correct location is just outside the main outlet pipe from the fuel tank.

2. Fuel Pipe Quality - you have used aftermarket plastic pipes near the tank. However, the pipes in the engine compartment (red ones) are good. I don't know why you have used two different grades. The aftermarket plastic pipes will react with the petrol and clog the carburettor in no time and you will not know why the car is not working properly. They will destroy the carburettor permanently. Please discard all these pipes immediately and use the same pipes as you have used in the engine compartment. Ask the shopkeeper to give you OE Maruti Esteem pipes.

3. Fuel line plumbing in the engine compartment - The main fuel pipe coming from the underfloor must be connected directly to the vapour separator inlet. Remove the small plastic pipe on the LH side of the firewall near the exhaust manifold to get this connection. You have routed the pipe behind the engine and then you are looping back in front of the engine. Maybe you have just bypassed the mechanical pump. This is not correct. I can see that you have done this because you have used the inlet to vapour separator from the original pipe which loops in front of the engine. This will increase fuel temperature inside the carburettor from 62 degrees C to 75 degrees C @ ambient of 42 degrees C which is not good for hot weather performance. The aim is to keep the fuel in as cool a state as possible. Please change this plumbing immediately.

4. Vapour Separator Location - I cannot see the vapour separator in the dicky after the fuel pump. Please post a photograph. The vapour separator in the engine compartment must be mounted properly on the air cleaner bracket as in production. Please procure this bracket and relocate it. You cannot hang it with a wire. Also, this vapour separator must be located at a higher level than the carburettor inlet union to use the additional advantage of gravity feed.

If you do exactly as I have mentioned, your car will run properly. If you deviate even a little bit, your car will stall due to vapour lock, which I cannot accept. Please correct the system as above before you test in the Ahmedabad heat. In your case, it is not going to be limiting condition as you do not have much gradient there.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Great information provided by Mr. Behram Dhabhar on the fuel system!

We faced issues with the fuel filter in our PPL Viceroy during our 1960 km trip last week. When driving at about 90 kmph, after 10 minutes, the engine would cut off. Then after 5-10 seconds, when the speed dropped to about 70 kmph, the engine would run fine again. This would happen every 10-15 minutes and only when the car was running above 70 kmph.

There was no such problem when the car was below 65 kmph. I had checked the distributor & spark plug wires and they were seated properly. When I called home, my father said that it could be a problem with the fuel filter/pump. Cleaning the fuel filter partially solved the problem.

But after the long trip, the electronic fuel pump has also started making some loud noises intermittently, hence we are replacing both the filter as well as the fuel pump and the pipes connecting the tank to the filter and filter to the fuel pump. I guess that the current fuel pump in the car is still the original one. The car is a November 1997 model and it's almost 15 years old.

We have purchased a new Ucal electronic fuel pump. It came with a filter but it does not seems to be a good quality one. Mr. Behram Dhabhar also mentioned in his previous post not to use this filter. One of the shop keepers here says that he may have the original stainless steel fuel filter, but in case it is not available, we will go for the Maruti Omni filter as suggested.

Here are the pictures.

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.

The Ucal electronic fuel pump kit.

We also happened to get hold of a good quality fuel pipe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet_Rider (Post 2796631)

When I called home, my father said that it could be a problem with the fuel filter/pump. Cleaning the fuel filter partially solved the problem.

But after the long trip, the electronic fuel pump has also started making some loud noises intermittently, hence we are replacing both the filter as well as the fuel pump and the pipes connecting the tank to the filter and filter to the fuel pump. I guess that the current fuel pump in the car is still the original one. The car is a November 1997 model and it's almost 15 years old.

We also happened to get hold of a good quality fuel pipe.

1. Fiat Uno's (Plastic housing) & Wagon R's (Steel housing) filters can also do the job. But not sure about the filter mesh sizes.
2.Youd dad is a Wikipedia :)
3. Loud noise in the fuel pump is when air enters into the pump. Was the fuel too low in the tank while you observed this?
4. Yes, the fuel hose is really of a good quality.

KkVaidya : The fuel pump making a mild noise that you can listen when the ignition is turned on is normal. Our old fuel pump started making a loud noise that could be heard even after the engine was started. The noise levels would vary despite the fuel tank being 2/3rd to 3/4th full. Yes, the original fuel pump as you pointed out is Facet. I think that there was a joint venture later between Ucal and Facet. We also have an old fuel pump by the name Ucal-Facet. (See pictures.) And the brand new one that we have fitted is Ucal. I am attaching pictures of the old fuel pump and filter. Also attaching pictures of the position of the filter and pump after fitting.

Ilangop : Check the picture of the old fuel filter that I have posted. It is of black plastic and as you said it must be used in the Uno. As per Mr. Dhabhar's previous post, the filter size specified by Nissan is 10 microns. The fuel tank of the car was 2/3rd to 3/4th full when the fuel pump noise started. Since the Viceroy is used for long trips, we are not taking any chances and both the filter and the pump are being replaced. These were never touched since we got the car last year. By the way, thanks for certifying the quality of the fuel pipe!

As advised by Mr. Dhabhar, we got the Maruti Omni (Non-MPFI) filter and it's bracket. This seems to be the best option as the fuel filter costs Rs 40.00 and the bracket Rs 30.00. The other filters for Uno, Wagon-R etc. cost more than Rs 150.00. The fuel pump bracket had to be drilled with two holes to match the supports already existing on the car. Here are pictures of the work done last Sunday.

Regards and Keep Revving, :thumbs up

Rahul Waghmare.

The new fuel pump and filter bracket. Note the two holes that had to be drilled on the bracket.

The new filter, the one used in the Maruti Omni Non-MPFI version.

Soldering the wires with connectors from the old fuel pump to the new one. The wire was then covered with a sleeve.

Connections.

Pictures after fitting the new pump and filter.

The old Facet fuel pump. The one that started making the loud noise.

The old fuel filter having a plastic body and metal bracket.

The original Nissan specification metal fuel filter kept in the garage as an exhibit!! :D

Someone had given this old Ucal-Facet fuel pump to us long back. Since we do not know how much it has been used, it will be kept as a spare. This shows that Ucal and Facet may have had a joint venture for some time.

Dear Rahul - please remove the original fuel filter mounting bracket from the system. It is only complicating the filter location. You can mount the spring clip by making a bracket with 2 nos M6*1.0 screws welded on it, weld the bracket to the cross member and locate the filter on the spring. Also ensure that the 1.6 mm diameter orifice in the tee connection immediately after the fuel pump is clear. If it is clogged, the pump will not work properly and if it does not work properly, it will make noise. Please also verify that the quantity of fuel delivered by the pump in one minute is 980 cc as per design specifications.

The 5/16" diameter fuel pipes you have procured are correct.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsag12 (Post 2800316)

BTW hows the spare parts market for NE in Hyderabad?

There are a few shops that do stock spares for the NE. Hyderabad still has quite a few NEs running on the roads although the count is slowly declining. As of now there are no problems with the spares but the time has come to start stocking NE spares for the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM (Post 2800753)

Dear Rahul - please remove the original fuel filter mounting bracket from the system. It is only complicating the filter location.

Thanks a lot for the feedback! Will do all the checks and changes as suggested over the next weekend.

Regards and Keep Revving, :thumbs up

Rahul Waghmare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM (Post 2796482)

The vapour separator in the engine compartment must be mounted properly on the air cleaner bracket as in production. Please procure this bracket and relocate it. You cannot hang it with a wire. Also, this vapour separator must be located at a higher level than the carburettor inlet union to use the additional advantage of gravity feed.

I have procured the filter & pipes but cannot procure the vapour separator mounting bracket. Seems like people don't understand what i want - Fact is even i don't know how it looks:D
Can anyone please post a picture of how this mounting bracket looks? I am sure i can source it from a scrap dealer.