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Originally Posted by sachinayak Would you have a similar opinion of the Aria as well? |
I cannot have an opinion about the Aria because I do not have one. Only think I can think about Aria is that its not really overpriced. It has Airbags, EBD, Satnav etc., and for these features 15L is not a big deal.
Probably if it has a SUV shape it would have sold more. Very few people in India buy expensive minivans.
For example, if Mercedes comes with a minivan which costs as much as C Class with same features, it will bomb too.
Or if somebody makes a great hatchback which costs as much as a sedan it will bomb too, because we still have a mentality that a hatchback has to be cheap.
however, the entire point of discussion is not that Tata cuts features in Indica and safari to make them cheap.
People are trying to sidetrack the discussion, and accusing naysayers that we are protesting because Tata is not giving Audi features in a Nano.
For the record, the 13L tata safari matches the Fortuner when it comes to features.
Tata cars never had lack of features.
Even the old indicas had 6 speed intermittent mode. That was at a time when competition did not even give an intermittant mode on entry level cars.
So Tata has never made a car which skims on features.
Give me the name of One Tata car which has had less features than a same segment Hyundai/Honda/Maruti.
The problem with Tata is whether what they give works or not.
For example, a working rear differential in a 4x4 safari can be called an essential feature. Failure of this part in almost Each and every Safari 4x4 beyond 60-70000 kms is definitely a cause for concern.
Speaking of honoring warranty claims, it good, but tell me, how many of us have time to take the vehicle to service center every month to get a problem fixed.
Open any safari review thread, and then compare with other cars.
50% of safari owners keep visiting the service center to get those niggles fixed. After 100,000kms or when extended warranty gets over, they sell their safari, because they know now what will happen.
and somebody made a claim that 90% Tata cars are Yellow board. Well I would like to ask the gentleman, how does he know. I can make a claim that in the history of Tata motors only 1337 cars were sold to private owners, and rest everything was yellow board. Unless I can back that claim, I am just stating something because I have a hand which can write on the keyboard.
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Originally Posted by Steeroid On a personal note, I have owned a TML product for about 4 years and 100k punishing kms after which it was sold. That vehicle is missed every time I get back home, and regardless of the mob mentality exhibited in a place where I used to be a regular I will have no hesitation in putting my $ on another TML product in future.
My 2c, and I am out of here. |
Steeroid good to see your inputs as a fellow Safari owner. I understand you have a lot of emotional attachment to Tata.
But when giving your opinions, would it not be nice to be alteast a little objective, for the benefit of other members who are following the discussion.
For example, you can say , that your safari had lots of problems(which were not niggles) and yet you are happy with it since its a wonderful vehicle.
I am a safari fan too, and given a choice between a Safari and Scorpio I may again end up with a Safari. But does that make my safari a problem free vehicle?
If you do not know what I am referring to, let me refresh your memory.
You started a safari long term ownership review. This was started after second free service, which I presume was done at 10K.
you baby your vehicle, going for a voluntary oil change at 5XXXkms
So definitely it was not a yellow board safari.
Now lets look at the problems of your safari, in your words
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1. A/c coils develop a leak @ about 1000 kms. Coils replaced by Subros.
2. A/c switch doesnt work on '1' and '4'. Switch replaced by Subros.
3. Starter motor conks off one rainy day @ about 4,000 kms. Motor replaced by TVS.
4. A/c compressor fan bearings shot @ about 4,500 kms on the way to Bangalore. Fan assembly replaced by Subros. By now most of my HVAC has been replaced.
5. Wiring fault causes the alarm to go off one night, waking up the entire neighbourhood because the vehicle's horn is the alarm. Mended by Minda engineers next morning after I switch off the theft alarm and lock the car manually.
6. Cabin lights switch on and off randomly.
7. Front window glass panes rattle. Fixed.
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so your brand new vehicle had
AC failure, Ac switch failure, Starter motor failure, AC compressor failure, Wiring Fault, some rattles.
Now of course rattles can happen in any vehicle. But tell me. Is the entire AC and major electricals failing within 10,000kms acceptable? In any vehicle?
And then, lets go through retrofits.
Why the retrofits. Was Tata sleeping when it designed the vehicle? While we make such a hue and cry about a recall for a power window switch, Tata does recalls every full moon on critical components, silently.
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1. Clutch slave cylinder drain pipe changed to avoid clutch failure on account of the drain pipe falling off. New drain pipe with locking mechanism fixed.
2. Hi-tension cables from the battery to the Starter Motor replaced with a Korean cable.
3. Fuel feed plumbing changed to a chinese/korean make.
4. Plumbing to intercooler changed/modified. Again replaced with a foreign component.
@ 7,500 kms approx, no complaints from my side:
1. EGR Valve band changed through an ECU update. EGR valve band is now 900~2200 in place of 700~2400 earlier. Result - drastic reduction in exhaust smoke, which has almost disappeared completely. Very little smoke on hard acceleration. ENGINE IS SMOOTHER.
2. EGR Valve Modulator retro-fitted onto the engine.
3. Turbo plumbing changed. No modifications, just replaced with better quality (imported?) piping.
4. Additional insulation and stays retrofitted around electrical cables at some points in the engine bay - allegedly some wires have shorted against the radiator elsewhere.
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So the good Part. When a vehicle is in warranty, they replace everything. For example, around 25000kms they gave you new clutch and release bearings?
They did that for me also at 20,000kms
so far so good.
The question is what happens when warranty gets over?
And another thing, if a company has active customer care department, does it compensate for a shoddy engineering/Quality department?