[shortbread]

Apparently Force are bringing in chinese artists to perform at the launch event, albeit the Firodias insist they are family and not from china!!

On a serious note I am quite eager to find out what the pricing will be for this so called chinese 'premium' SUV.

[Manuuj]

That is one ugly vehicle. This is my first time reading this thread and i am shocked that the Firodias are actually doing this to their company.

If they had gone the other way and made the Gurkha refined, reliable and a well finished product it really would have sold well. I would have bought one for sure as long as it was priced under 10 lacs. A well finished body with some refreshed lines (copy more of the G-Wagen..i dont mind!!) and a good paint job. Modern suspension and interiors. Better wheels and tyres, but most important of all a revamped dealer network.

I remember about 10 years ago i had walked into a Force Motors dealership in Jhandewalan in Delhi and the sales guy was...asleep..on his desk! They had no brochures, did not take my contact details and did not seem at all interested in making me a customer. I was aghast and reported this to every Force Motors executive i met at the next Auto Expo (where by the way they had a rather tasty looking copy of the Hummer based on the Gurkha).
They looked very embarrassed and made some noises about setting things right and that i would "hear from them soon". This made me feel like a fool because they again failed to take my number so i could "hear from them soon".

A few years went by and after reading some interesting threads on the Gurkha on Team BHP i was tempted again. This time i went to a spanking new showroom on Mathura Road in Faridabad to inquire about the Gurkha. The response of the tie clad "Mr.Sales Executive" was .."eh??"

I explained to him about this really rather capable 4x4 vehicle that they had in their stables and he said he would get back to me. After this he floored me my actually taking my number! The call did come this time.
After 3 weeks.

Now they are palming of a third hand copy from a Chinese company that has lanterns instead of headlights and "networks of hitting" instead of grills!!..dont follow? read the link:
Guangdong FODAY Automobile Co.,Ltd

But you know what..it will still sell in some numbers if its priced right. Their resale values of course will go south faster than you can say "Foday"

The Firodias seem to think otherwise and for their sake..I hope I'm wrong.

[dockap]

Originally Posted by Manuuj

Guangdong FODAY Automobile Co.,Ltd

air conditioner i can understand but the steering system is an optional accessory
does this mean that the new vehicle is delivered without a steering?

[4x4addict]

@Mannuj:

The Trax/Gama/Whatever else it is called these days is a much superior product the the Bolero. They should have tried to target the Bolero first. Instead, they decided to take on the premium segment with an unkown Chinese brand.

@dockap
The base version comes with two large chop sticks which you can use to steer the vehicle like a bull-dozer. The steering is optional.

[KALINGA]

Spotted this Force SUV on law college road, Pune.

[Yeldo]

Don't laugh at me if I sound ridiculous, but like mobile phones, milk powder and toys and almost anything from China, could these Chinese vehicles carry some potential health hazard? Like interior plastics that emit harmful gases when exposed to the sun? Or poisonous chemicals used in waterproofing or painting? Are there any testing systems in India to ensure that everything is OK?

[Manuuj]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

Don't laugh at me if I sound ridiculous, but like mobile phones, milk powder and toys and almost anything from China, could these Chinese vehicles carry some potential health hazard? Like interior plastics that emit harmful gases when exposed to the sun? Or poisonous chemicals used in waterproofing or painting? Are there any testing systems in India to ensure that everything is OK?

Actually a VERY valid point my friend. I must admit i never thought of it. I don't know if ARAI run tests for such things in a vehicle. If the Chinese can manufacture toys which have been known to be toxic to children and then export them untested, i don't think they will have any qualms about including cheap toxic substances in the interiors of vehicles also.

Thats what can happen to a society that copies blindly and manufactures with only one aim in mind. Low cost of the end product. In that pursuit other factors, like R&D, Testing, Safety, Product consistency etc that add to a final cost are simply ignored.

[manishalive]

I think the chinese tin can / made in china etc etc. are things of past. Their engineering has gone leaps and bounds. I have seen a lot of engineering stuff made in china and their performance is at par.

The stigma of made in China still prevails tough .

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

Don't laugh at me if I sound ridiculous, but like mobile phones, milk powder and toys and almost anything from China, could these Chinese vehicles carry some potential health hazard? Like interior plastics that emit harmful gases when exposed to the sun? Or poisonous chemicals used in waterproofing or painting? Are there any testing systems in India to ensure that everything is OK?

Also,remember,that the best stuff(mainly electronics) also comes from China.
Why are you skeptical about this only with this vehicle?,why not others?

[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by manishalive

I think the chinese tin can / made in china etc etc. are things of past. Their engineering has gone leaps and bounds. I have seen a lot of engineering stuff made in china and their performance is at par.

The stigma of made in China still prevails tough .

Originally Posted by akshay4587

Also,remember,that the best stuff(mainly electronics) also comes from China.
Why are you skeptical about this only with this vehicle?,why not others?

Sorry folks, just shared my thoughts!

I don't know of the stuff you are talking about, but I am yet to see any improvement in their quality and their attitude for whatever material our company imports regularly. Earlier if we raised complaints about the inconsistency between the sample and the product, they at least gave some discount. Now even that is not the case anymore.

But, since I'm no expert in the things you people talk about, I think my inference is an exception.

Oh, and akshay4587, I have owned Matadors and a Trax, so I hold the Bajaj Tempo/ Force Motors in very very highest esteem.

BTW, I am yet to see these Chinese auto horrors so widely publicized in significant numbers on my trips. They might be in vogue in rural hinterlands. The Chevrolets, Buicks, and Audis I got to travel around were as good as anything.

[rohanjf]

I don't think we should be so apprehensive on this product. In my opinion, only the design is being borrowed from Foday, and not the end-to-end manufacturing process. Force would follow its own standards in manufactrung the components. I don't even think that many components would be imported from China. Unless there is a serious flaw in the Chinese design, we would see at least the quality of a regular Force product (although, I am hoping for what Tata have done with Aria).

[Equus]

Is China capable of delivering good quality - Absolutely YES.
Is China doing that in every "Made in China" product - Absolutely NO.

So lets wait till its launched. Especially since NOTHING can escape Team-BHP reviews

IMO, if this product is successful, it will be a major thing for Force Motors. Indian customers have only gotten more demanding in last 1-2 decades, and its a new test of sorts for some of these oldies..

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

I don't think we should be so apprehensive on this product. In my opinion, only the design is being borrowed from Foday, and not the end-to-end manufacturing process. Force would follow its own standards in manufactrung the components. I don't even think that many components would be imported from China. Unless there is a serious flaw in the Chinese design, we would see at least the quality of a regular Force product (although, I am hoping for what Tata have done with Aria).

Ditto, I hope that they've done an awesome job with the QC. But I'm not entirely hopeful, due to obvious reasons.

Force has a bigger mountain to scale than Tata. They have to prove that they can produce a quality vehicle, and also price it right. Too high, and people will IMHO (though possibly ironically) go in for a safer alternative - M&M or Tata!

[UB_007]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

Don't laugh at me if I sound ridiculous, but like mobile phones, milk powder and toys and almost anything from China, could these Chinese vehicles carry some potential health hazard? Like interior plastics that emit harmful gases when exposed to the sun? Or poisonous chemicals used in waterproofing or painting? Are there any testing systems in India to ensure that everything is OK?

Force motors being an ISO TS company, it’s a must that they document all the material/substances that goes into their vehicle. In automotive industry its generally termed as IMDS (International material data system) and ROHS (restrictions on hazardous substances). Any supplier component which is a part of the vehicle has to have a document regarding the material declaration. It would be a major non conformance to force motors during certification audits and can even lose their certification which is not a nice scene for force motors, if the IMDS and ROHS are not documented in a right way.

I am sure they would collect all these declarations before the car hits market/serial production. The plastic quality might look cheap but chances of hazardous material in it are rare. I dont think seperate tests are conducted to check the material composition at the customer end.

Coming to the Chinese suppliers, they work purely on cost to product basis. They are capable of delivering high quality products as well, depending on what customer needs are. So let us wait and see what surprises are packed in their new launch, especially when FM's competitors are well settled in market for quite some time now.
-UB

[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by UB_007

It would be a major non conformance to force motors during certification audits and can even lose their certification which is not a nice scene for force motors, if the IMDS and ROHS are not documented in a right way.

I am sure they would collect all these declarations before the car hits market/serial production. The plastic quality might look cheap but chances of hazardous material in it are rare. I dont think seperate tests are conducted to check the material composition at the customer end.

Coming to the Chinese suppliers, they work purely on cost to product basis. They are capable of delivering high quality products as well, depending on what customer needs are. So let us wait and see what surprises are packed in their new launch, especially when FM's competitors are well settled in market for quite some time now.
-UB

Informative post, thanks for enlightening many of us! I was in no way judging a product which I am yet to see, but was making a generalized statement, having first hand experience with the ways of the Chinese industry at large.