[mxx]

Originally Posted by zipperone

Dont expect to see the defender unless the army orders a decent quantity. Hope they consider some CKDs of the new defender coming in 2013. even then the prices would be in the 18-20 lakh range , fingers crossed

If the 2013 defender is a completely new platform as many auto mags suggest, it might be more expensive than the freelander. Current defender is possible in the 20 lk price. But no intention of bringing it here has been stated by JLR.

Originally Posted by theragingbull

The Freelander 2 is a good SUV but the prices after CKD should have started for just under 30lakhs. The BMW X1 Highline costs about the same as the Freelander 2.2 SE. And with a great service back-up and wide dealership network, the sales of the X1 will surely be higher.

Freelander is in x3/q5/glk segment NOT X1.
The plan was to price is around 30, but the new ckd rules is the reason for 34lk price tag.

But, JLR is building an engine plant here. So few years down the line, it will get way cheaper than the competition.

[shortbread]

The Defender is a very capable vehicle but its strengths lie as a terrific off roader and almost all the pseudo SUVs in the market is better than it on the road. Unless one is thinking of using this car off road it is the wrong vehicle to buy, its pretty crude by today's standards inside and out and does not ride or handle well on tarmac. Its like Ganguly, off side there's God and then.....

But Carl Foster has insisted the future Defender platform must be a lot cheaper to take on the likes of the L200, Hilux, Navara...which the Defender has lost alot of ground to due to pricing. Hazarding a guess, this might mean that production of vehicles on the new platform might be shifted to India.

[Trapezio]

I agree with shortbread, the Defender will just not cut in India. Its a hardcore offroader designed for farm/military usage. The interiors are purely functional. Its just a couple of years since it got a proper set of aircons.

In India, where anything above 10 lakhs is used for office treks and weekend trips to outskirts by executives, the Defender will struggle to sell. All cars above 10 lakhs should be luxurious, 'status symbols' and 100% reliable like a Corolla. Not a single SUV is used as a traditional SUV should be used, in India. Perhaps Safari owners comes closest.

I am sure many will remove the vehicle from their shopping list citing lack of headroom, ac does not chill enough, lizards might be nesting in the panel gaps, poor ride quality etc! As is usual here some neighbourhood taxiwallah might proudly proclaim that his Scorpio is better than the LR defender.

Perhaps LR should wait till the market grows a bit more, car consumers get exposed a bit more to different brands etc. This way they can get the next platform too (assuming it goes ahead).

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by mxx

If the 2013 defender is a completely new platform as many auto mags suggest, it might be more expensive than the freelander.

The new platform is like the many other soccer mom types.

But no intention of bringing it here has been stated by JLR.

When did they say as much? Do you have any links? I did see some mention of maybe/maybe not types. Not sure I read an outright no.

Originally Posted by shortbread

The Defender is a very capable vehicle but its strengths lie as a terrific off roader and almost all the pseudo SUVs in the market is better than it on the road. Unless one is thinking of using this car off road it is the wrong vehicle to buy,

You think there are not many who would want one exactly for that?

There are two on this forum, me and MileCruncher.

its pretty crude by today's standards inside and out and does not ride or handle well on tarmac.

Think of it this way. There is the Scorpio and there is a Bolero.

The Scopio just doesnt cut it out for me. The looks, handling, the pseudo nature of the vehicle is too vulgar for me.

The Bolero is simple inside out, lets call it crude, basic and just about makes it in any car ownership stake.

But it works and very well.

The Defender is what a Bolero owner would look at. Because they are meant for a purpose and not to be curvy shiny and pseudo in nature.

Originally Posted by Trapezio

Its a hardcore offroader designed for farm/military usage.

Good offroader yes. Hardcore - the definition is not yet there, in India that is.

The interiors are purely functional. Its just a couple of years since it got a proper set of aircons.

PURELY FUNCTIONAL WORKS!! No seriously. In these days of unnecessary toys and comforts the whole thing is like a robot. Heck even the wipers dont need to be turned on manually now. Some of them even talk The charm is lost.

I want luxury yes I do. But not the one looked at by the fat cats.

In India, where anything above 10 lakhs is used for office treks and weekend trips to outskirts by executives, the Defender will struggle to sell.

They are buying Scorpios in the dozens aren't they? Look at any IT office, there will be a train of Scorpio's. Out of the 200, one will be 4x4. So what you say is right.

And yes you are right the Defender will struggle. But we want TATA to sell it, not for the numbers, not for the cash registers but for the heritage of that name. They are already doing 3 times better.

Not long back in a parking lot, where lot of these grand "SUVs" were standing, there was one Defender and if you didnt look at the badges you couldnt make out one from the other. The Defender though could be recognized from a mile. Or maybe, my eyes just like to look at one

All cars above 10 lakhs should be luxurious, 'status symbols' and 100% reliable like a Corolla.

We have the run of the mill - Scorpios, Fortuners (though I like it), Endeavours here.

They are soccer mom vehicles as you rightly said.

And yes the Defender is not reliable. Its a pain to maintain and lot of other issues. But still the heart yearns for one. You know that "Things in Life I Need to Own Checklist..."

Not a single SUV is used as a traditional SUV should be used, in India.

How many "SUVs" sell in India? Remember an SUV needs to be all time 4x4. 90% of the Scorpios sold are not even that. But people still call them SUVs.

Note: For me the term SUV still doesn't make sense.

I am sure many will remove the vehicle from their shopping list citing lack of headroom, ac does not chill enough, lizards might be nesting in the panel gaps, poor ride quality etc!

I am living with one. I will live with another. No complains.

As is usual here some neighbourhood taxiwallah might proudly proclaim that his Scorpio is better than the LR defender.

You don't have to look far. You will find many on the forum itself.

Perhaps LR should wait till the market grows a bit more, car consumers get exposed a bit more to different brands etc. This way they can get the next platform too (assuming it goes ahead).

I think India is there. With new driving vistas and a great country side to explore a Defender would make great sense. The pansy, ouch I scratched my paint stuff is already available in kilos.

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

There are two on this forum, me and MileCruncher.

Thanks for remembering me

Defender is one vehicle that is one for everyone. Not only here in India but in the UK/Europe/Africa/US also not many personal users buy it. But those who do, know their stuff and are very clear why they are buying one.

Its kinda similar to the Bolero. To me an Armada, Bolero apart from the CJXX and MM5XX have a certain amount of character and say quite a bit about their owners. And the Defender is just there. To me Defender110 is the perfect upgrade to Bolero/THAR!

Cheers

(Off to pray to God for JLR to bring the mighty Defender to India)

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Thanks for remembering me

(Off to pray to God for JLR to bring the mighty Defender to India)

So that is you. God mentioned someone who just got a platypus tailed Scorpio asking for the same vehicle as me.

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

Thanks for remembering me

I even mentioned your name to a TATA Employee, saying so and so from Hyderabad would also buy one.

(Off to pray to God for JLR to bring the mighty Defender to India)

So that is you. God mentioned someone who just got a platypus tailed Scorpio asking for the same vehicle as me.

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

So that is you. God mentioned someone who just got a platypus tailed Scorpio asking for the same vehicle as me.

Platypus tailed it might be but very functional one at that . BTW please don't insult my Getaway by calling it a Scorpio. Warned a few friends sternly who did the same mistake this weekend!

Plus its a good intro to what living with a Defender can be like. Similarities include

1. Humongous turning radius.
2. Bumpy ride
3. Inadequate pick-up
4. Top speed restricted to 82MPH. Getaway doesn't go over 120KMPH.
5. And the best of all, everyone looks at you in bewilderment and grudgingly grants that you are "not normal"

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

BTW please don't insult my Getaway by calling it a Scorpio.

Heartfelt apologies buddy. I am keeping that in mind. My fingers did stop a while before typing Scorpio, I was thinking Getaway.

And yes coming back to the topic, the pics in this thread have turned the flicker of hope in a mini flame now.

Time to send some more mails to the TATA guys.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Stratos

The JLR management kept mum when asked about the estimated production volume, investment in the project.

Stratos, I'm surprised they didn't mention the investment level. Usually, car manufacturers shout it out from the rooftop. Here's why I think they avoided an answer = JLR is using existing, old machinery for assembly. Perhaps, an old Mercedes plant?

@ Spitfire : When a 6 lakh rupee off-roader (i.e. Gypsy) needs army orders to sustain itself in the market, what chance would one costing multiple times that have? Tata can & should sell the Defender to the army. That will guarantee availability for guys like you

[Stratos]

Originally Posted by GTO

Here's why I think they avoided an answer = JLR is using existing, old machinery for assembly. Perhaps, an old Mercedes plant?

Yup, this plant was on a lease to Mercedes-Benz by Tata Motors which got over in December 2009. I am sure, the already constructed structure was very useful for JLR as they did not have to start from scratch and therefore are avoiding the investment figures about the plant.

[shortbread]

Tata also needs to tread carefully with press releases regarding JLR investments in India. First of all there are plenty of folk who are convinced that the Indians bought JLR to transfer production globally. Any news on local JLR investment will ring alarm bells with English sceptics. Someday they will realise Indians do not think like chinese. That said its pointless to make the likes of Defender in the U.K anymore.

[StarrySky]

Sorry if OT, but: how is the reliability record of LandRovers? Are they in general more reliable than the germans?

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Sorry if OT, but: how is the reliability record of LandRovers? Are they in general more reliable than the germans?

Traditionally no. But now generally reliability is a relative term.

The germans at least the big ones are not that well build now either. Or so they say.

[shortbread]

@starrysky

They were known to be quite dodgy historically, but then British Leyland F'd up anything they made, even if it was a bicycle.

Lately they can be affected by electrical glitches, mainly the Range Rovers especially due to the kind of kit they have. That said zze Zermanss are not as reliable as they are reputed to be, my firiend was frustrated with his 08 plate M class, and at the end when he sold the thing its value tanked north of 60% thats more than £30k...lol

[Aroy]

I read that the Defender is being phased out as it does not conform to the future legal requirements - mainly safety gadgets and emission norms.
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