[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Time will tell, but this just sounds like an excuse to tweak the budget car platform and move it a segment higher.

This.

Noriake Abe speaks about the mass segment in the same breath, and how it has been a tough nut for Honda to crack. So this is a definite indication that this will be a tweaked Brio-platform, taken "premium".

3 future cars:-

"Premium" compact car would be the Brio replacement,
New "premium" sedan would be the Amaze replacement,
New "premium" SUV would be a Brio replacement-based SUV (possibly taking over from BR-V/Mobilio).

And since the guys at Honda are loving to beat the "premium" drums so loudly, the replacements will come with a hefty price tag - if the pricing of the WR-V is anything to go by.

I would love to be proved wrong but till then, more eye-watering times are in store for Honda ahead.

[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by aargee

What is the problem with the word premium & auto manufacturers?

With fancy brochure, uniforms, using ipads, fancy confusing abbreviated words, would that all contribute to the word premium or what?

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

And since the guys at Honda are loving to beat the "premium" drums so loudly, the replacements will come with a hefty price tag - if the pricing of the WR-V is anything to go by.
.

We bought our first Honda - a first generation Honda City- not for any 'premium-ness'.

The Opel Astra was way more better built and luxurious. The Daewoo Cielo was far better equipped. And the Mitsubishi Lancer was far more comfortable and robust when compared to the low ground clearance low seating City. Even the dealer experience at Peninsular Honda was below par and 'un- premium'.

The City was bought because it had a better engine, better fuel efficiency, better performance, better gearshift, better driver involvement, and lower maintenance bills. And the interior - although it looked and felt a notch down than the Esteem which was priced one segment lower- was hard wearing.

The only distinguishing 'premium' factor for Honda back then was that since Honda had only petrol engines, not many business people (like yours truly) bought a City. Higher running demanded Diesel Lancers and Astras. So the City was mainly bought by senior professionals like doctors, CAs and lawyers. The educated successful professional bought the Honda, and the successful businessman (educated or under educated) bought the Lancer. Coming to think of it, some of the dealership people had this snooty snobbish attitude back then.

But somewhere down the line, Honda itself started to harbor this 'premium' delusion themselves too seriously. Within a span of 2 years, they revised the prices of the best selling segment leaders like the Accord and CRV upward by many lakhs, while offering nothing to justify the price rise.

I think this problem still persists with Honda. This delusion of conceived premium- ness. The idea that they are some sort of a Japanese BMW.

If they keep on selling the Jazz as a 'premium' 'branded' car when compared to the Elite i20 (which incidentally a Honda salesman dismissed as an "ordinary Korean" car), I do not see them going anywhere in the Indian market.

If Honda want to go 'premium, let their products and the experience be "premium". Not the attitude and price- tag only.

[sajo]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Brio replacement for ~8L anyone?

Replacement ? I bought the current Brio for ~8L a few months ago.
The replacement would be ~11L , since its "premium". The compact sedan would probably occupy the ~15L segment, vacated by the next City which would be in the ~22L bracket. The "premium" hatch-esque UV would probably end up rivaling the Innova in pricing.

[libranof1987]

Surprisingly, Honda continues to maintain its USP in India: trust (seemingly another word for reliability in the auto sector).

According to the Brand Trust Report, Honda comes up above Maruti, but below the Tata Group (hence, not necessarily Tata Motors) :

Tata Group and auto major Honda continued to occupy the fifth and sixth position, while the country's largest carmaker Maruti Suzuki came in at the seventh position, climbing four spots.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/techn...ia-report.html



Source: Hindustan Times

[adimicra]

Honda India needs to smell the coffee, that is, reality.
They are no longer considered as a premium brand as they have diluted the brand image by launching sub-par budget offerings like Brio,Amaze,Mobilio and BR-V. Only the City still enjoys the brand loyalty and commands a premium over its competitors. Obviously, Honda India needs to have more cars in their portfolio which will sell rather than depending on a single product.

I would not term the new Jazz as a failure, I think it is doing decently at 3K units per month over the last couple of years. I don't think Honda India expected more. It's the cars based on the Brio-platform which have backfired big time and my guess is Honda India was betting big time on those cars.

By this time, Honda should have enough data points to conclude that Indians prefer feature-rich value-for-money cars rather than cheap stuff with glaring cost-cutting. Anything above the A segment, the Indian consumer wants his/her car to look and feel premium enough for that segment inside out and he/she is willing to spend a few grands more for that rather than compromising and saving a few bucks. Actually, this change in Attitude on the India car buyer was first sensed by Hyundai and then by Maruti (Nexa) but Honda India is still unable to sense that. In fact, this is good news for Honda and should nicely play to its strengths.

In 2017-18, Honda should launch the following
- Jazz RS with 1.5 IVTEC (manual/CVT) with more features, bigger wheels etc, discontinue Jazz VX and offer the magic seats in V variant
- WRV with 1.5 IVTEC - this can be a huge game changer
- Get the HRV and Civic soon and please don't give them underpowered engines.
- Do something to improve NVH of diesel engines
- Get the new generation turbo petrol engines fast.



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[geotracks]

Honda needs to re-visit it's product lineup in India. In the US & many other parts of the world, Honda & Toyota vehicles have 'comparable' models being sold. In India, Honda does not have anything equivalent to the Innova Crysta or Fortuner (which is seeing good volumes). The CR-V is there, but over priced as it is not manufactured in India like the above two mentioned.

Honda should look at making the CR-V more localized to be price competitive and get the Vezel or an equivalent of the Honda Odyssey which a popular MPV in the US.

[Equus]

Honda's new launches are not exciting me anymore. When are Civic & Accord petrol launches? The global (dare I say non-asian) models are worth waiting for. Time is right (again) for Civic if they launch it with the right choice of engines. An alternative to Innova is sorely missed. But why is CRV not selling well? I would love to buy one, honestly!!

[Aaron:)]

Honda currently seems to be a little confused right now.

On one hand, there's talk about focusing on the premium segments with the Civic and HR-V, while on the other hand they continue to launch confused products like the WR-V.

They had a huge opportunity with the Jazz back in '15, but they messed up the price and variants big time and that shows. What could have easily been a 7-8k seller is howering around the 3k mark.

They must not make the same mistake with the HR-V and Civic.

- Discontinue the Mobilio, Brio. Give the BR-V a price cut and more equipment. Give the Amaze a mild update too, since the new Dzire and Xcent are around the corner.

- Launch the Jazz facelift as soon as it's available internationally. Apply the same formula as the City facelift : lesser no of variants, more equipment, better interior quality and a fully loaded top spec variant with 6 airbags. Make magic seats standard.

- Launch the HR-V with the 1.8 petrol and 1.6 diesel. Focus on delivering a premium product in terms of quality and equipment, and price it at 50k above the Creta. Has the potential to be a consistent 6-7k a month seller.

- Launch the Civic with the same engines, and if possible the 1.5 Turbo. Price it bang against the Corolla.

- Then launch the CR-V in 7 seater guise with the 1.6 diesel. Price it between the Tucson and Fortuner. The CR-V still has immense brand recall and if positioned right, has the potential to challenge the Fortuner's sales leadership.

[jazzy47]

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

Honda currently seems to be a little confused right now.

On one hand, there's talk about focusing on the premium segments with the Civic and HR-V, while on the other hand they continue to launch confused products like the WR-V.

Well said. I do agree that the opportunity with the Jazz was missed in 2015. Other points to add, Honda brings in the Mobilio ahead of Jazz. At that point of time, new generation i20 was well established. Also, the Jazz missed out on quite a number of features which the competition brought in. Even the price was more.

WR-V's 1.2 L petrol - low rpm torque is already an issue with the Jazz and the WR-V is some 50 kg heavier. Even the petrol variants don't get the same set of features as the diesel. Don't really understand why there's no cruise control and push button start/stop on the petrol?
A real big miss is the 60:40 rear seat. How can a crossover not have this - a very basic feature these days even in most of the hatches.

[Nohonking]

9 years of Honda cars ownership, I think Honda's strategy has always been to safeguard City and experiment with the rest.

That said, while the Brio platform (shared by Mobilio, Amaze and B-RV) was never a wow experience, yet new launches including the B-RV were made. Honda should have sensed this to correct it right at the Brio level. Amaze did have some volumes only because it offered an affordable sedan alternative to those who otherwise wanted to own a City but couldn't. Not to mention we Indians are obsessed with that "third box", so a sub 4 meter (say 3900 mm) sedan is always looked as a big car than a sub 4 meter (say 3995 mm) B2 hatch which is indeed 5 mm longer.

Talking of the City platform (shared by Jazz and now W-RV), I wonder none of the later is indeed a fully baked vehicle (lacking many contemporary and even some bare essential features). Apparently, these launches were made only half-heartedly or without giving too much of thought in an attempt to cope up with their competitors in a rush. More so, I can easily figure out a substantial dip in the product quality if I compare my 2008 City ZX with 2015 Jazz V. In other words, the days of flagship City, Civic, Accord and C-RV only, to the days of Brio, Amaze, Mobilio, City and C-RV. Honestly, during the first 17 months of ownership of Jazz, twice I have claimed warranty replacements due to sub-standard OEM parts.

All Honda vehicles are leveraging on the same i-vtec motor (that too an SOHC with no option of DOHC) for almost a decade now and ever since they discontinued i-DSI motor. Agree, that the i-vtec is a gem and one of the most advanced and reliable engines on the Earth, but no further innovation has been witnessed, meaning the product is the later half of its lifecycle and graph is surely to go downwards.

Besides, Honda seems to have been unclear and confused about their variant line-up and positioning. For instance, 2015 Jazz was launched in 5 different variants, starting at some 5.3 Lac ex-showroom Delhi. This base E variant literally has no features to boast of, while the top VX variant (still leaving behind a wish list of features) practically has only a little more to offer over the V variant, and in many aspects, V features more over the VX (3 reverse camera views vs. only 1, USB/AUX ports and Bluetooth mic nicely concealed in the upholstery, audio system featuring Speed-sensitive Volume Compensation etc.). Also, there is no option of Magic seats in CVT. Better would have been to scrap the E, offer Magic seats on the V and goodies such as daytime running lights, push button start, armrest console and cruise control in the VX with added features of projector headlamps, 16 inch alloy wheels and sunroof in the VX(O). Another such example is seen in W-RV, wherein although only 2 variants are on offer, the i-vtec lacks all the goodies of its i-dtec counterpart variant, while CVT option has been omitted. Don't know why, when it is rather becoming a necessity in coping with everyday hours of traffic snarls and an automatic comes in as a boon. Honestly, I am not very optimistic on the success of i-vtec W-RV.

Its a high time for Honda Cars India to rethink on their products, product positioning and strategies. Merely launching new vehicles (with some copy and paste work) won't really help, rather lead to feeble the consumer's interest and excitement. Honda should bring in to offer truly global and full featured models in order to restore its diminishing brand value and regain its glory.

It would be good to see a full featured Jazz (Singapore, Malaysia, USA, Canada and even Sri Lanka have better on offer) and Civic remaking its way in India (with better ground clearance) while expecting H-RV ticking on all the global benchmarks. Thanks.

[motorworks]

A colleague from work test drove the BRV and even though she has no idea about cars, she could straight away state that the BRV felt very flimsy and very budget car like overall. I had to then explain that the BRV is basically a refurbished Mobilio! She was surprised that Honda makes such cars! Many people equate Honda with the City and expect similar refinement. With the quartet of Brio, Amaze, mobilio and the BRV Honda had failed to meet those expectations and hence the dismal sales of all these 4 in spite of being in very hot segments.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

Honda currently seems to be a little confused right now.
.

Taking into consideration the brand in question and the country we live in, I must say you have amazing wishful thinking capabilities. And the number of times you used the word "launch", I guess Honda might not have made those many launches since they started shop here! Wow.

But alas, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Your suggestions were spot on though. Thanx for helping me to daydream too :thumbup:

[ampere]

The point to note is the fact that Honda thinks they need to do a Maruti/Hyundai. In other words win the market with volumes. I dont think they are there on that front. They should get back to what they do best. Get better products and improve price/product margins.

Ref : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4177959 (March 2017 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis)


Its easier said than done. But I still think thats where their salvation lies.

[m8002?]

If they are playing volumes game, they should use the VFM card. They cannot overprice, claim premium and expect volumes. What I see is that everyone wants to be apple. Need to realize that it was an exception.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by motorworks

A colleague from work test drove the BRV and even though she has no idea about cars, she could straight away state that the BRV felt very flimsy and very budget car like overall. I had to then explain that the BRV is basically a refurbished Mobilio! She was surprised that Honda makes such cars! Many people equate Honda with the City and expect similar refinement. With the quartet of Brio, Amaze, mobilio and the BRV Honda had failed to meet those expectations and hence the dismal sales of all these 4 in spite of being in very hot segments.

In the quest to eat into maruti share, honda decided to what maruti does. And that shows in the build quality.

We all know about the brio based product lines, i wouldn't say these are poor but rather built to a cost.

When my friend bought the latest Honda City, first thing I realized is that, apart from the VTEC engine everything else is typical maruti Quality.

But then honda wants us to pay a premium for the brand name which is why they consistently overprice cars by a lakh or two

This is where maruti increases the market share with products like Ciaz and Vitara brezza which are better in terms of Quality, and rest of the makers are degrading the quality to catch up with them.