[snappysam]

Quite an interesting thread.

I have something to add. Couple if years ago, there was a fault with my Keyless entry system. It malfunctioned intermittently. I procrastinated to get it rectified. Eventually after a few weeks, the system failed completely. It was a Nippon unit and I contacted the company service. Their quote was much higher than that from ASC.

After the Keyless system failure, car would not start at the first crank and even while in motion, it would falter. Suspected battery, but it was fine on checking.

This cajoled me to seek help from the ASC. They replaced the Nippon Keyless system, but the car still had problems with starting (diesel car) and hesitancy during driving. On checking thoroughly, ASC could not find any other error. Finally they removed the ECU from their demo car and checked it in my car. Voila! all the problems vanished. Thus I got the ECU replaced too. Problems did not recur till date. In between I got them to run a scan on the OBD which did not throw up any errors.

So I do think the damaged wiring harness could have contributed to damage to ECU.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by nagr22

I disagree with everyone who is claiming rat bite cannot damage ECM. In order to damage any electronics, it is not necessary that its power line must be shorted. Depending on the design, even shorting an ultra low power sensor wire to ground can cause some sensitive internal component to go bust which could make the entire ECM useless. The rat wouldn't even feel a pinch when it bit some low voltage wire and might have caused it to touch the ground and an IC inside the ECM can go bust without even a tiny hiss.

An external short on an input pin (or a pin in input mode) wouldn't cause any "blowing" of any transistor. If there is a possibility it has to be on an output pin (or a pin in output mode) where the driver of the shorting current is present inside the ECU. That said, most outputs have to be protected for overcurrent (no one would design a system without that) from such output drivers. Hence, my suspicion squarely lies on the goofing up of supply/ground connections at the service center when they tried to play with the ECU connections or tried replacing the ECU with a spare one.

[abhishek46]

Try to involve senior people from Skoda directly, either via social media or using email.

Rat chewing up wires should not cause an ECU/ECM failure.

Rats had chewed up one of wires of my polo's injector, turn signal wires etc.
The car still worked in spite of these problems.
Also, if there is indeed some electrical short circuit, then the ECM's fuse should take care of that.

[alphahere]

Many insurers state that Comprehensive insurance does not cover damage due to rat bites. They say it's meant to cover physical damage due to some form of accident or theft. Guess it all depends on how each company 'thinks' of such claims. There may be some companies who are willing to pay up because rat damage is still a form of physical damage.

But the major procedural mistake here happened because the insurer was not notified before the repair was done. This is a straightaway rejection of any claim for that matter. The adjuster needs to asses the damage beforehand and approve the quote. The service center should know better than to start off the work if there is an intention to claim insurance for it.

But really do not see how a chewed up harness can cause damage to the ECU by itself. This is almost certainly some muddle up by the service center. I have had a situation where I forgot to tie up a harness after doing some DIY work on my BMW X1. It was rubbing against the V belt and a few wires were frayed. The car just went into limp mode while driving showing the check engine light and some error messages relating to reduced performance in limp mode on the iDrive screen. It wouldn't respond to any input on the accelerator. I tried multiple times to start and restart after separating the wires but it just wouldn't behave. I had the same doubt did I screw up the ECU. In the end I taped up each individual frayed wires in the harness and tried it again. Started up in one go. No errors, nothing. Now the harness has been replaced and it's good as new but learnt that the ECU is quite foolproof. I do not think a few chewed up wired would be enough reason for the ECU to blow out. It should be taken up with the company directly asking to acknowledge negligence on the part of the service center.

[igemini]

Sad to hear this as it is not a pleasant situation at all. The ECM failure can also occur due to the rat chewed wires. That can also occur due to the improperly installed wiring harness. Both cases may result in short circuits and can cause ECM failure. It would be an expensive affair to deal with.

Now there are a few things that you can consider to get rid of the situation. Or at least to reduce your financial burden due to this.

At first, inform the Skoda dealer about the reason why your insurance claim was rejected. Highlight point 2

1. The vehicle has already had wiring replaced before the claim was initiated, the insurer should have been notified when the vehicle was towed into the workshop.
2. As per the surveyor's comments, the wiring replacement work done has shorted the ECM and not the initial rat bite. The fault lies with the workshop.

Very few chances the dealer will take accountability for this. Regardless you should do that prior you approach Skoda India and informing them the same.

These findings were from a third party, ie. neither from the owner nor from the dealer. So I assume that carries weight when you deal with Skoda India.
We can hope that Skoda India will do something to help you out. At least some portion of it they may absorb.

Now comes the second part, you'll have to read through your policy documents very carefully and capture the contents carefully. If it was a Nil Depreciation policy with electrical parts involved then there is no way the insurance company can wash their hands. UNLESS it must be stated somewhere in the policy cover note/terms and conditions that electrical harnesses were NOT Included.

If the insurance company still claims the insurance was rejected due to the reasons
a) Wiring Harness not included
b) It was rejected due to bad workmanship at the Skoda Authorised center.

That must be obtained in writing. Now, even if the ECM failed due to bad workmanship, that must still be covered in insurance. So the insurance company cannot get away just by giving reasons verbally.

If they refuse to give those to you in writing, then you shall write an email to their concerned authorities stating all those events. You should clearly indicate how you feel about the scenario created by the insurance company and the dealer, which is of no fault of yours.

Tell the insurance company, that if they are still unwilling to resolve then you consider that it would be okay for them that you are approaching Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority of India for dispute resolution. But keep that part for later. i.e. If the insurance company did nothing to resolve your issue.

https://www.policyholder.gov.in/ombudsman.aspx

Read this link for more details. Someone I know had one such incident in the past and I had told them the same. Somehow that worked well for them.

[nerd1200]

Originally Posted by SedanGuy

Even when I had the vehicle towed to the garage, my car started with no issues and I was able to drive it out of the garage and align it to the tow truck. How can the car start when the ECM is busted?

This is exactly what your stand should be. It was working when you dropped it off. If it failed after ASS intervention, that is not your responsibility. Please escalate to Skoda India in-case the dealership does not own up. It will make things significantly easier if you have a video of such.

The quality of workmanship at the ASS is seriously questionable. I've had multiple instances of this which required quite a bit of escalation and cajoling to be resolved. The ASS team & management probably hate me, but I'm okay with that. Sorry for your predicament, really.

[Altocumulus]

I think this is a case of the particular SA and his team trying to cover up the mistake they did. In all probabilities, if it is indeed their mistake, the dealership management will make them pay for it or at least will be reprimanded. If it could be sorted through insurance or the customer is dum enough, no one needs to know.

The 1.0 tsi is a brand new engine for Skoda in India and way more complex than the older ones. Quite possible they ended up making a mistake.

[SedanGuy]

Originally Posted by alphahere

The car just went into limp mode while driving showing the check engine light and some error messages relating to reduced performance in limp mode on the iDrive screen.

This was exactly my case as well. I took the car out after ~40 days and vehicle started to switch itself off if I accelerated beyond 2000 rpm. I switched off the vehicle twice before realising the check engine light. Immediately drove back my car and parked it.

As far as the update goes, the ASC has followed up with me today and told me that they have requested the insurer to reconsider the claim. They even offered a stand by vehicle for the delay in this process. The CRM also told me on the call that they assessed the technical report and they stand firm that the issue was not because of any wrong workmanship. At the same time the CRM said they will try and find a positive outcome to this scenario. The insurer will survey the car once again and come back with the details by July 6th. I have been asked to wait till then.

[landcruiser123]

Seems like the someone at the service center screwed up royally. The ECU generally has many safeguards built into it and a rat biting a wire won't damage it. Would help to know what code they are getting from the OBD.

[govigov]

The dealership should have insurance on their own, right? People do make mistakes, specially mechanics and the shop insurance ought to cover for mistakes such as this. Apart from increasing their insurance prices, they (the ASC) is trying to avoid paying for it. I guess in your case, since they issue has enough visibility, it will be sorted soon. All the best.

PS: Honda's rat tape is your best bet to avoid rat bite in the future. Checkout GTOs thread on rat proofing.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...r-rodents.html (Pics: Honda's Rat-Proof Tape! Protect your car from rodents)

[warp_10]

My old santro automatic had a rat bite issue. The gears were not changing post that and had to change a belt. Unfortunately at that time when I was checking (though it ended pretty cheap in the end and self paid), they clearly mentioned that it would not be supported even if it happened in public spaces... Insurance is a hassle in India even after so many private and global players entering into it :(

[Jeroen]

I agree with some of the comments made by other members. It is very unlikely damaged wiring damages the ECU.

More importantly, how is it determined the ECU is actually broken? Ask for the error codes. I can assure you there is no DTC that says ECU broken.

This is yet another case where everybody goes ballistic, giving all sorts of advise and opinions, whilst we have not even been able to verify how or what diagnosis led to the conclusion of this ECU being broken in the first place.

They need to show you either:

- physical evidence of the ECU being broken. (Which means opening it, and showing components that are visibly damaged.

Or

- present you with the DTC /Error codes and why they believe those warrant a new ECU.

Anything else, all other comments are just utterly useless in my opinion.

Always, always, diagnose, do a root cause and then decide what the best cause of action would be.

Maybe the ECU is broken. But in my experience that is very rare. They are pretty robust and the input circuits are hardened so problems with the sensors and wiring don’t cause permanent damage.

Get those codes!

Good luck

Jeroen

[Tgo]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

They need to show you either:

- physical evidence of the ECU being broken. (Which means opening it, and showing components that are visibly damaged.

Or

- present you with the DTC /Error codes and why they believe those warrant a new ECU.

Get those codes!

Absolutely second that.

In my case the ECM had repeated crank angle sensor codes. Faulty ECM diagnosis was done after checking and replacing electronic and mechanical components which were responsible to throw such codes. In my case these components were the flywheel and the engine speed sensor which picks up the missing tooth on the starter ring on the flywheel.

I even did a back and forth between the ASC and even roped in Renault in the discussion and finally everyone was convinced that the ECM has some internal fault.

Replacing it sorted the problem immediately.

ECUs can go bad internally - the learning I got from this episode, because I always considered them to be non wear and tear items.

[SedanGuy]

Hi All - quick update on my car:

1. As of 2nd July, the insurance had not surveyed the car to reassess even when the dealership requested to reconsider the claim. The dealership's CRM team asked me to mail the insurer detailing why my claim should be reconsidered while cc'ing the dealership's CRM and leadership. I have done that and awaiting response. The CRM team has updated me that we should get response from the Insurance team on the claim by Tuesday 13th July. As per the CRM team, they have escalated the issue to VAG insurance/Finance group.

2. The dealership has given me a loaner/courtesy car which is Rapid automatic and in decent condition which a nice gesture considering the pandemic.

3. The dealership's CRM team has been following up diligently with me and updating on timelines and actions taken by them.

4. One detail from my visit to the ASC while i went to pick up the loaner car. The workshop manager told me that the rat bite was to the wiring harness connecting the car's O2 sensor to the ECM. He told me that there is no fuse on this line and that's caused the short which in turn caused ECM failure.

One other question thats started to haunt me is once this whole mess is resolved and the ECM is replaced, are there any other skeletons in the closet that I should be worried about ? Can ECM failure cause any other issues (most importantly the engine)?

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by SedanGuy

4. One detail from my visit to the ASC while i went to pick up the loaner car. The workshop manager told me that the rat bite was to the wiring harness connecting the car's O2 sensor to the ECM. He told me that there is no fuse on this line and that's caused the short which in turn caused ECM failure.

Rats did their part in disabling your car by chewing up the o2 sensor circuit no doubt. But your ECU was fried by some moron in the dealership while trying to jump start your vehicle with a dead battery (remember the car was idle for more than a month), its possible its the same fellow who blamed it on the O2 sensor and the rat.