[NG_EV]

I was listening to an EV podcast where the host asks a question weekly. 2 weeks ago, he asked a question regarding data sharing and discounts. This was as there was a discussion going around Rivian offering insurance on their own. According to an article, Rivian states that this will allow shorter turn around times and, a lower premium than third party insurance. In addition to this, Rivian also offers discounts to those customers who opt in and use "driver aids". But these driver assistance features are through connected car services and require that the company tracks how often these features are used.

The question that the host asked was as EVs are mostly connected cars and have a lot of smart technology in them, how much of your data are you willing to share and what do you expect to get in return? Are you ok with discounts such as offered by Rivian?

These discounts are not new in insurance industry. Apollo Munich was offering a discount of up to 8 or 9% if an app was installed and that app allowed tracking of the user physical activity.

My answer to this question would be no. I do not want a discount in exchange for tracking. I am okay with minimal connected car experience. When I purchase an EV, the only thing I want monitored is battery health. Some companies offer remote battery health monitoring and alert users if there is anything wrong with the pack. I feel that such information should be available on-board the car itself and should not require any remote monitoring.

What are the community's opinions on this? Please do reply.

Podcast link


https://www.evnewsdaily.com/

Rivian insurance news

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...rance-business

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by NG_EV

The question that the host asked was as EVs are mostly connected cars and have a lot of smart technology in them, how much of your data are you willing to share and what do you expect to get in return? Are you ok with discounts such as offered by Rivian?

Insurance companies are typically good at finding ways to reject claims. Giving them more data is like digging your own grave when it comes to insurance matters.

Not saying that we should hide data but I would share only on need to know basis.

[GTO]

No way would I be comfortable with that. Warrioraks put it well. Plus, there are times when I drive hard & push the car hard. I don't want that to be held against me in an unrelated car accident although - *touches wood* - I haven't crashed a car in almost 30 years now. Plus, it's a bit freaky knowing that a 3rd-party insurance company is tracking your every move.

Here is BHPian Rajeevraj's insurance coverage with telematics thread (tracking) and BHPian Locusjag's thread on usage-based insurance.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Absolutely not. No way am I letting a third party with as one sided interests like an insurance company track my activities. Not only do I consider it an absolute violation of my privacy, who is to ensure that the company won’t further sell my data for their own benefit? Specially to other companies like my health insurance provider.

This is the start of a vicious circle of greedy companies coming out with creative ways to scree over the unsuspecting customer.

[Altocumulus]

Never would I want to do that. Like GTO mentioned I like pushing my car but sometimes as well and I wouldn't want someone holding that against me.

Also God forbid I do get involved in an accident at say 52km/hr and the speed limit there is 50, the insurance company will have chance to say that I am overspeeding and deny the claim. We all know how speed limits within the city are either not displayed or dips suddenly without warning.

[speedmiester]

No way I would be comfortable in sharing my data especially with an insurance company which can make or break one's life with this data.
Imagine a situation where the insurer rejects claim based on past data especially when it comes to third party losses. I don't want to be in that situation for a discount of few thousand bucks.
Peace of mind is paramount to me and I am ready to spend extra dough for it.

Our justice system is slow, archaic and still driven by "bigger vehicle is at fault" mentality.
With shared data, an insurer can reject a claim if they find you are driving at 81KMPH in a 80KMPH speed zone and met with an accident.

Besides in India, insuring cars is not as exorbitant as in some countries.
In India, we are charged based on car specs rather than on the driver profile and past claims. This might make sense in a country where insurance premiums can sometimes cost more than the value of the car itself.

[lsjey]

If the insurance is free, and comes with all the bells and whistles like engine cover, zero dep etc., then one can stop and consider. After that the insurance offer should be outrightly rejected. There is no free lunch yet in this world.
Regards,
lsjey

[TrackDay]

Definitely NO ! In this age, one's own data is getting compromised day by day and there should a clear line and law on data sharing.

Off-Topic : Since most cars are connected these days with inbuilt tracking, can insurance firms request car manufacturers for that data in case of a claim ? In such a situation can the car manufacturer hand over that data without the permission of the car owner ?

Also what about scenarios where insurance is provided by the car maker themselves ?

[Guna]

I consider myself as a disciplined driver who follows defensive driving. I never got in to accidents or made a claim in past 10 years. If there is a system which tracks good driving style and incentivizes (or penalize in other cases) I am all for it.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

Insurance companies are typically good at finding ways to reject claims. Giving them more data is like digging your own grave when it comes to insurance matters.

Not saying that we should hide data but I would share only on need to know basis.

+1

Especially given the state of consumer protection in our country.

Originally Posted by TrackDay

Off-Topic : Since most cars are connected these days with inbuilt tracking

Here's an eg. In the recent Tiger Woods crash, detectives analyzed the black-box in the Genesis SUV to determine that it was an accident.

Another:

Odds are your vehicle is equipped with an Event Data Recorder, also known as a vehicle black box. And, your local police department is now fully equipped to retrieve and analyze the black box data and use it against you in court.

As of May 2018, almost all common US vehicles come standard with a black box installed. That means that every time you get behind the wheel, every button you press and every maneuver you make is being recorded. The data is stored in the black box to be readily accessible after collisions, such as seatbelt closure, brake usage, blinker usage, travel speed, etc. All of this information, once retrieved, will either corroborate or contradict your account of what happened. If you’re lucky, your story is bolstered, if not, your credibility is shot. If you wanted to remain silent and limit the evidence the government can use against you in a criminal prosecution, you’re out of luck when your car’s black box does the talking for you.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marinam...h=4cc7788a31c5

That said, do vehicles in India come with a black-box?

[Indian2003]

At work when driving a bus I am monitored by GPS and by the drivers card I load into the reader before I start my shift. At work they can monitor me real time if they wish. They will know exactly where I am, my speed, the engine revs, gear used and fuel consumption. Every month I get an email with my average fuel consumption. Every 5 years I have to go for a 2 week mandatory course in economical driving where they measure the G-force and braking. I am paid my salary when attending this course.

My normal average speeds at work are about 30-35 km/hour so there is no hurry. If I am delayed by more than 10 minutes, I just need to send a message and they will send another bus to cover me.

The drivers card monitors the hours I have worked, my mandatory breaks and my speeds.

This is an advantage if anything happens on the road. I dont mind as I have nothing to hide. The police will be able to pull out my driving speed just before the accident and my general driving behaviour.

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Highly dependent on the discount offered and the data required. But yes, if it makes a good case I would be willing to share the data - Speed, Timestamp, Accelerations, GPS coordinate (if required). This is if they allow me to get another 25-30% additional discount over and above the NCB on the insurance (total not just the vehicle part).

[Jeroen]

I would not feel comfortable at all. Primarily because I just don’t trust insurance companies at all.

We must realise that with modern cars everything is already in place to figure out you location and speed. Many cars have onboard GPS systems and it is quite easy to extract data from it after a crash. And it has been done in numerous cases around the world.

On most of these system GPS is permanently on. Even if you have disabled it on the dashboard. That just makes it not show up on you Display.

Also, EU legislation is going towards more and more permanent connectivity. E.g. automatic notification of emergency services upon crash etc.

If you have a navigation system such as TomTom, that too registers your location/speed/acceleration.

So the data is already being collected in numerous ways and soon all cars will be doing it. Question remains, who are you going to share all that data with. The car manufacturer, the government (e.g. we are getting a road tax system based on this), insurance company, shops (e.g. nearest supermarket showing up with today’s special etc etc.

There are endless applications from which we could benefit. Unfortunately, as to just about everything, there is also a dark side to it.

Jeroen

[pahwa]

Voted Yes - ready to face some flak.

My point here is - going forward each one of us anyways going to be tracked. Like you cant have privacy if you are using a smartphone - same way in 2-3 yrs from now being anonymous or 'staying disconnected' wont be possible if you are driving a car. I have worked on a 'Connected Cars' project with a major OEM and can tell you for sure that your every move with the car - hard braking, fast acceleration, loud music, irregular services - will be used against you; whether you like it or not.

So least I expect from insurance company is to pass me the discount (if I am eligible) for using my data and profiling me.

[BlackPearl]

I have voted yes as I have no problem in my driving or location being tracked. I had a blackbox installed in my Mini Cooper here in the UK by an insurance company called Admiral and it helped in reducing the insurance cost. So yes, I am in for it if it saves me some money.