[cranky]

While braking at low speeds, there's a whistling sound from the car from day 1.

This is true of my T-Jet as well -actually all my cars when new, and quite apparent at night or in basement parking. The brakes will bed in and in time become quieter - Fiat manual say 5-6K kms. This is quite normal when new linings or discs are installed. I don't think of it as an issue.

[Speed Pujari]

They make very good cars, something which you can keep for life.

Fiat is a giant company and has a decent top-10 ranking in world. They know the Business they are into, then why is this big flimsiness in their way of operating?

I know threads like this exists, but I am looking forward for inputs from senior business employee from sales/marketing division who can talk more in technical terms.

As a novice, I guess following are the major reasons-

1. Cost cutting by Fiat in the product quality- Maybe to balance the higher premium/margin to be given to Tata and Tata Dealerships. I am sure the same Linea sold in brazil will not have any misaligned doors, or malfunctioning ACs, or for that matter rattling plastics.

2. In first call to the TASS dealership you may get a disappointing response. Take the matter to Fiat complaint, the same TASS come and polish your shoes. I think maybe the TASS has a common behavior towards Tata and Fiat customer. They may be unable to filter out the differences. They need to reminded that the behavior has to be switched for two brands they are selling.

3. Taking cost as a major factor, Fiat may be unable to spend much on the RnD for customization and proper tuning for Indian conditions. Certianly there are creamy layer engineers in every field, Is fiat india able to afford or employ one?

4. Again, is cost the major factor for ill trained mechanics?

Everywhere I guess that cost cutting is the major factor which is mainly due to the roadblock named Tata.
I have been hearing many other bitter stories of Tata JV in other BUs like TCS. If at all they are unethical then why Fiat does not gradually plan to move out?

I don't think that the RnD of Fiat spa italy is to be blamed, they did their work religiously. I am seeing a similar trend in my current organization. Our India center is pathetic, but globally my organization is a highly respected name.

Note from Support: Posts moved to this thread. Please continue the discussion here. Thanks

[mirage2000]

Hi ... I have a 5 year old Fiat Adventure ... with a little more than 50,000 km on the clock ... It was bought with the specific purpose of being able to drive up a steep, narrow and muddy path up to my cottage in Ranikhet ... With the original all-season Pirelli 175/80 R14 tyres being unavailable for replacement at any Fiat dealer, I was forced to upsize (on the advice of a few BHPians) to the Michelin xm1+. We spent the last several days in Ranikhet with the (relatively) new XM1+ ... and can I just say, it was pretty scary. With 4 passengers and a luggage load of app 60 kgs, the tyres kept striking the inner moulding of the wheel arches at just about every `wave' on the mountain roads forcing me to drop my speed to dramatically. On the plus side, I had no traction issues with the new tyres on the steep stretch.

I think its just awful that FIAT cannot supply these tyres forcing customers to procure a different tyre with clear-cut safety ramifications. Besides anything else, I believe they can be found legally wanting if this were to result in an accident.

Before, I bring this to the attention of FIAT's management, I would ask FIAT drivers on this forum for any comments linked to this concern ..

I regret though ... that its probably time for me to replace my Adventure with possibly a Safari 4x4 ... Am losing faith in the ability in the car, not just because of the tyre issue but because it stalled 2 times on the highway ... in the middle of a massive traffic jam for reasons I just cannot understand. It was serviced two weeks ago ... I just hope its a case of `kachra' in the fuel tank which will go away ...

Best
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor, NDTV

Vishnu

It is a very good tyre. I was also apprehensive about going for 195/70 14

[revvhed]

Hi Guys,

I've gone through the whole thread and need to ask a question. I know this might not be the best place to ask this but i cannot find any other thread pertaining to this.

Can someone please tell me which is the best FIAT dealer to go to in Mumbai ? A contact person there would also be very useful.

My girlfriend has just bought a second hand Palio 1.2 EL and i need to have it serviced. I see SHAMAN stickers on the car but i believe SHAMAN no longer does FIAT. Is this true ?

Awaiting your response.

Thanks

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by mirage2000

Hi ... I have a 5 year old Fiat Adventure ... with a little more than 50,000 km on the clock ... It was bought with the specific purpose of being able to drive up a steep, narrow and muddy path up to my cottage in Ranikhet ... With the original all-season Pirelli 175/80 R14 tyres being unavailable for replacement at any Fiat dealer, I was forced to upsize (on the advice of a few BHPians) to the Michelin xm1+. We spent the last several days in Ranikhet with the (relatively) new XM1+ ... and can I just say, it was pretty scary. With 4 passengers and a luggage load of app 60 kgs, the tyres kept striking the inner moulding of the wheel arches at just about every `wave' on the mountain roads forcing me to drop my speed to dramatically. On the plus side, I had no traction issues with the new tyres on the steep stretch.

I think its just awful that FIAT cannot supply these tyres forcing customers to procure a different tyre with clear-cut safety ramifications. Besides anything else, I believe they can be found legally wanting if this were to result in an accident.

Before, I bring this to the attention of FIAT's management, I would ask FIAT drivers on this forum for any comments linked to this concern ..

I regret though ... that its probably time for me to replace my Adventure with possibly a Safari 4x4 ... Am losing faith in the ability in the car, not just because of the tyre issue but because it stalled 2 times on the highway ... in the middle of a massive traffic jam for reasons I just cannot understand. It was serviced two weeks ago ... I just hope its a case of `kachra' in the fuel tank which will go away ...

Best
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor, NDTV

Vishnu

It is a very good tyre. I was also apprehensive about going for 195/70 14

vishnu ,

IMO ,providing tyres of specific type is not manufacturers responsibility and when ever they needs to be changed , manufacturer does;t force you to buy them from their dealers.

it's car owners responsibility to get them replaced as per their specifications . may be you could have checked for these in car dealers at delhi or another cosmopolitan/metro cities near by .as for Touching sidewalls / wheel arches goes, no manufacturer recommends Tyre up size or it was done on manufacturer's recommendation .

there is a separate thread existing on forum for same. i hope you have been through that thread .

couldn't understand what Fiat has done here wrt to spare parts availability

[mirage2000]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

vishnu ,

IMO ,providing tyres of specific type is not manufacturers responsibility and when ever they needs to be changed , manufacturer does;t force you to buy them from their dealers.

it's car owners responsibility to get them replaced as per their specifications . may be you could have checked for these in car dealers at delhi or another cosmopolitan/metro cities near by .as for Touching sidewalls / wheel arches goes, no manufacturer recommends Tyre up size or it was done on manufacturer's recommendation .

there is a separate thread existing on forum for same. i hope you have been through that thread .

couldn't understand what Fiat has done here wrt to spare parts availability

Hi Sushil. I must disagree with you. The Fiat Adventure was always marketed as a lifestyle vehicle with an element of off-road capability. Central to that were the all-season tyres (Pirelli 175/80/R14s) tyres which were not available easily anywhere other than at Fiat dealerships. Several of the Adventures out there are no more than 4-5 years old, and to run into a situation where the prescribed tyres are not available is just unacceptable. Fiat should have stocked these tyres by keeping an eye on their availability from Pirelli rather than washing their hands as they have quite clearly done.

In terms of the context of this post ... which you suggest belongs elsewhere. I disagree. This has to do with aftersales and I believe, in this case, Fiat aftersales has been found wanting.

Yes, this has been dealt with elsewhere, in a post which I started a year earlier http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...adventure.html

The purpose of this post was to explain how I had run into a safety issue with upsizing a tyre, something I was forced to do because Fiat doesnt stock a tyre which is specific to THIS model.

Tx
Vishnu

[.sushilkumar]

i hasn't seen adventures advertisements so won;t comment but Irrespective of that, nobody would go off - road with a adventure. I am really surprised that you were off-road in adventure.

Again i will re-iterate what i said earlier, providing tyres is not manufacturers responsibility nor they are part of spare list and FIAT has no role to play in providing pirelli tyres.

As for as i know, none of the OEM 's provide tyres except for first time and for next time replacement as well , there is no specifications that tyres has to be from particular manufacturer only. OEM's just provide technical specifications wrt to tyres size and it';s owners responsibility to adhere to those specifications.

As for up-sizing goes, none of the manufacturer recommend that .it's after days / years of testing that a manufacturer decide on a tyre size for it's vehicles and 175/80/R14 size is easily available in market .May be pirelli;s are not available , but you could have gone with other manufacturers for same size instead of putting your life at risk with safety issues.

I am still unable to understand that what FIAT has to do with pirelli tyres .

[mirage2000]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

i hasn't seen adventures advertisements so won;t comment but Irrespective of that, nobody would go off - road with a adventure. I am really surprised that you were off-road in adventure.

Again i will re-iterate what i said earlier, providing tyres is not manufacturers responsibility nor they are part of spare list and FIAT has no role to play in providing pirelli tyres.

As for as i know, none of the OEM 's provide tyres except for first time and for next time replacement as well , there is no specifications that tyres has to be from particular manufacturer only. OEM's just provide technical specifications wrt to tyres size and it';s owners responsibility to adhere to those specifications.

As for up-sizing goes, none of the manufacturer recommend that .it's after days / years of testing that a manufacturer decide on a tyre size for it's vehicles and 175/80/R14 size is easily available in market .May be pirelli;s are not available , but you could have gone with other manufacturers for same size instead of putting your life at risk with safety issues.

I am still unable to understand that what FIAT has to do with pirelli tyres .

Hi Sudhir .. perhaps you SHOULD see some Adventure ads before commenting ... SEVERAL Adventure owners have used this vehicle offroad ... and that does not imply using it on terrain suitable for a vehicle with a low range transfer case ! Quite obviously, I wouldn't take this vehicle onto terrain which it cannot handle. In this instance, the vehicle has been used on a steep stretch where its ground clearance and good tyre traction came in handy.

Secondly ... the point you dont seem to understand ( ) is this:

The original tyres provided by FIAT were NEVER tyres which were easily available at dealerships in major cities. The assumption that Fiat can wash its hands off this case because "providing tyres is not manufacturer's responsibility" is unacceptable. This particular tyre type defined the capability of the car. Thus, as a responsible company, they should have kept an eye out for the availability of this type of tyre for Adventure owners. This they did not do ... Hence, several Adventure owners (READ the link I provided in my previous post) were forced to upsize.

I am aware of the dangers of upsizing ... I was unable to locate a tyre with the same specs as the original ... and was forced to upsize as were other Adventure owners ... I was hoping this wouldnt have any impact on the performance of the car but it does.

Thanks

[.sushilkumar]

^^
First correction, my name is sushil , quite evident from my forum handle.

My point is clearly mentioned so it will be repetition of what i have already said .I am not a blind fiat fan boy or trying to defend fiat in any way, what ever i felt correct, i posted on the forum .

As for seeing adventure ad's goes, there is no need for me to do that as the car is a history now and as a matter of fact, i never go by what a OEM is advertising. Indian market is full of such advertisements

Little OT- there is a AD in today's news paper, FIAT is offering exchange for all it's old vehicles ( palio / premier padmini / adventure / sienna ) and offering a 50 K exchange bonus for LINEA and 30 K for punto . just in case , you are interested .

[julupani]

I think sushil is right on this front. I cant say its the manufacturer's responsibility to be providing spare tyres for any car. The only case where you may expect the manufacturer to do this, would be in the case of one-off tyres which were specially made for this car. I dont see that to be the case here.

Let's say today, we buy Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos and all kinds of supercars here in India. They use tyre sizes which will again rarely be found in India. Most likely you will have to ask some dealer to import a set of tyres for you if you want a replacement.

I dont think we would expect Porsche to provide you with tyres would we?? We would assume that we will have to take the pains to access such parts on our own.

I understand why you feel FIAT is responsible for this problem. I am sorry to say this you just own a rare old car, and this is just one of the few pains that comes along with it. But in the auto industry, manufacturers have never been responsible for providing tyres for a customer, unless like I said they are bespoke. So you cant really blame them for your issue.

Also, I am not entirely sure your problems are purely due to an upsizing. Is your tyre touching the wheel wells when your turn or is it when it gets bumpy. I ask because an increase in width is expected, thus maximum angle of turning the wheels decreases, but you have uprated to a size which does not effect your overall diameter.

Also, did you try talking to the any official importers of Pirelli tyres in India. They might have been able to procure the tyres. Though they may charge you a bomb for it, like I said, pains of owning a rare car.

[lohithrao]

Vishnu,

I own a Adventure and have michelin xm1+(195 70 R14) have clocked 20+k kms so far and have no issues of wheel touching the inner side of the wheel well...

however, I agree with you on Pirelli's, these tyeres were the best match for this car, XM1+ is good on tarmac but not on offroad and also on softer side. unfortunately none of the tyre's available in this size comes in a pattern which suits offraod conditions.

Originally Posted by mirage2000

Hi ... I have a 5 year old Fiat Adventure ... with a little more than 50,000 km on the clock ... It was bought with the specific purpose of being able to drive up a steep, narrow and muddy path up to my cottage in Ranikhet ... With the original all-season Pirelli 175/80 R14 tyres being unavailable for replacement at any Fiat dealer, I was forced to upsize (on the advice of a few BHPians) to the Michelin xm1+. We spent the last several days in Ranikhet with the (relatively) new XM1+ ... and can I just say, it was pretty scary. With 4 passengers and a luggage load of app 60 kgs, the tyres kept striking the inner moulding of the wheel arches at just about every `wave' on the mountain roads forcing me to drop my speed to dramatically. On the plus side, I had no traction issues with the new tyres on the steep stretch.

I think its just awful that FIAT cannot supply these tyres forcing customers to procure a different tyre with clear-cut safety ramifications. Besides anything else, I believe they can be found legally wanting if this were to result in an accident.

Before, I bring this to the attention of FIAT's management, I would ask FIAT drivers on this forum for any comments linked to this concern ..

I regret though ... that its probably time for me to replace my Adventure with possibly a Safari 4x4 ... Am losing faith in the ability in the car, not just because of the tyre issue but because it stalled 2 times on the highway ... in the middle of a massive traffic jam for reasons I just cannot understand. It was serviced two weeks ago ... I just hope its a case of `kachra' in the fuel tank which will go away ...

Best
Vishnu Som
Associate Editor, NDTV

Vishnu

It is a very good tyre. I was also apprehensive about going for 195/70 14

[mirage2000]

Note from Support: Please don't use excessive dots in posts. Avoid...typing...like...this... Thanks!



Hi Julupani, Sushil ( ), Lohit ... thanks for your comments ... I believe Fiat shouldn't identify people who buy this car as those likely to pay top dollar to import a set of tyres. Now, with those tyres not available, the Adventure loses a significant part of its ability in the mild off-roading it otherwise handles with aplomb.

While on paper, the argument that the company isnt responsible for selling tyres stands ... the tyres in the context of THIS model are different from other models where a wide variety of options are easily available. As a responsible company, Fiat SHOULD have stocked these tyres for the following reasons:

1. These tyres are not available in the market without the customer having to import them.
2. Its natural for customers to want to replace tyres with the original type suggested.
3. Unlike other cars ... this tyre type WAS important in the context of what the car was meant to be ... a reasonably rugged lifestyle vehicle with an element of off-road ability.
4. Upsizing tyres, something many Adventure owners have ended up having to do ... COULD come with its set of safety concerns.

Lohit ... based on your experience with the XM1s ... I will have the suspension of my vehicle checked out ... Its seems fine ... but the front right and rear left wheel kept striking the inner part of the moulding everytime there was a "wave" on the mountain roads.

Thanks Vishnu

[julupani]

The argument, at least my argument, is not only that the manufacturer isnt responsible for selling tyres, but it is not responsible for ensuring any ease of availability in the market either.

Expecting FIAT to stock tyres would be expecting an standard of service way beyond the standard industry expectations.

[lohithrao]

Vishnu, at first even i was worried about this and it turned to be quiet true with the front tyre touching but it was due to the crossmember which had a bend after that got sorted out have no issues so far(touch wood)

On the Pirelli's, Fiat at the first place should not have gone for this size 175 80 14 and the offraod pattern considering that they had no intention of supplying with the same tyres and they very well might have known that in these spec no other manufacturer makes a tyre of this kind, if they had atleast designed the car for 15inch wheels then we had better chance of finding a suitable tyre...

[mirage2000]

Originally Posted by julupani

The argument, at least my argument, is not only that the manufacturer isnt responsible for selling tyres, but it is not responsible for ensuring any ease of availability in the market either.

Expecting FIAT to stock tyres would be expecting an standard of service way beyond the standard industry expectations.

Hi Julupani ... Point taken ... Will argue notheless with FIAT because I do believe that they are wrong. Lets see how they respond. Will let you know ... Thanks, Vishnu

PS Mods ... whats the issue with typing dots as part of a post? Was told to avoid in my last post. Been writing like this for decades ... whats the prob ? Tx