[govindremesh]

The foundation of this story starts from here:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

One of the biggest problems with liking cars, is that people want your opinion on what car they should buy.
The opinion itself isn’t a problem, it’s the fact that no one wants an informed suggestion. No sirree, what they want is for you to rubberstamp their opinion with your ‘automotive enthusiast’ seal of approval. Whether it’s a family of four who wants a reliable car and buys a used Tata Safari, or a young man who fancies himself an enthusiast and ‘luvz’ the i20 Sportz, you’re trapped. Just smile and nod.

The short version: I was the purchase consultant for my aunt's family who, for better reliability , replaced their 2016 1.6L Suzuki S-Cross with a Skoda Kushaq 1.5 TSI DSG. We encountered the (un)usual Skoda sales strategy and how insisting on a PDI helped us avoid a nasty surprise.

Skip to the second post for the fun part. Otherwise, read on!

January 2023, Kerala

I've wrapped up the 3 weeks of "Work from home" (literally) and closed my laptop to enjoy the next 3.5 weeks of vacation, patting myself on the back for having escaped the Dutch winter. My aunt (dad's sister) is our neighbor so we sync up almost every day. During one conversation, her husband ("Cheriachan" in Malayalam, henceforth referred to as CA) brought up a car-buying conversation. For perspective, CA is a driving enthusiast, and his current car is a 2016 -1.6L S-Cross that has clocked close to 80K on the ODO. His previous cars have been an MH 410 Zen and a 1st gen Swift VDi.

The S-cross has been fuss-free, but it had 2 "soft breakdowns" - The oxygen sensor gave up during a drive from Thrissur to Trivandrum, and then the clutch slave cylinder failed, again on a drive to Trivandrum. While these didn't leave them stranded, they were a huge nuisance in the remainder of the journey. Since both these problems occurred during a long drive- CA wanted to change his car as he wasn't confident of its future reliability.

Let's skip the debate of "that's normal during the lifetime of a car", since the decision was made to buy a new car. Since I was living next door and CA knew my fascination for cars, I was appointed as the purchase consultant.

Requirement
A car that performs on par or better than the 1.6L S-Cross with a similar or higher seating height and ground clearance. Should have an automatic transmission.

Budget
20 Lakhs OTR, +/- 2 lakhs. The car has to be the top trim level of the range.

Contenders

1. Toyota HyRyder/Maruti Grand Vitara
   Default choice since all his cars have been Maruti and he has very good connections at the local MASS. Hybrid tech is new and interesting. CA preferred a Maruti but didn't want a Hybrid, but I convinced him that an electric powertrain was the future, and since he was dead against owning an EV without a proper ecosystem, he agreed to test drive one of these two.
   
   Since the TD car was not available when we visited the Maruti showroom and the Toyota showroom was inexplicably closed on that day, the TD happened another day. Maruti folks recognized CA and his car, right down to the name. CA was very very impressed, while I think that it might be because he's the only person to whom they sold a 1.6 S-Cross
   
   CA came back after the test drive
   
   CA: "You call yourself a car enthusiast?"
   
   Me: "Why what happened?"
   
   CA: "That thing makes a lot of noise when I floor the throttle but doesn't go anywhere. My S-Cross will reach Trivandrum by the time this thing gets to Kochi"
   
   I kicked myself for having invited this since I too didn't prefer hybrids. What was I thinking?
   
   
2. Hyundai Creta/ Kia Seltos - Rejected without test drive.
   My cousin-sister has a KIA Seltos 1.4 Turbo DCT (GT?). Both CA and I found its DCT lag annoying. The GNCAP rating (+ looks of the Creta) meant these were disqualified without test drives.
   
   
3. Skoda Kushaq/VW Taigun
   Another aunt of mine owns the Taigun 1.5 DSG - CA has driven this as well and found it exciting. I highlighted my concerns: This one needs deep pockets to fix if things go wrong, especially the DSG transmission. This could come as a shock to someone who has always owned a Maruti (Suzuki) in his entire life and keeps his car for 7-10 years before replacing.
   
   
4. Tata Harrier - Rejected since it was too big and looked weird.
   
   
5. Mahindra XUV 7OO/Scorpio N
   Too big and felt "not so polished". Unfortunately for Mahindra, these cars were tested by CA right after Kushaq's test drive. Personally- I found the Mahindra logo funny- it still looks to me like two people with their butts glued to each other.
   
   Jokes apart, if I were to return to India in the short term, I'd probably pick a Scorpio N with my eyes closed. The way it went over broken roads without needing to slow down, gave me a feeling that's the diametric opposite of the feel when navigating the same roads with my Honda City.
   
   
6. Wildcard entry: Jeep Compass
   A test drive of this car + the salesman's behavior had all of us fall head over heels with it, till we saw the on-road price. Jeep is robbing people in broad daylight. The Compass needs a price cut of atleast ₹4 Lakhs on its sticker price. A second hand option was considered, but given the overall cost of upkeep and focus on "reliability", the idea was dropped.

The test drives ended. It was going to be Skoda Kushaq 1.5 DSG Style (since the Taigun was rejected for its overly done design). Multiple attempts at convincing CA to consider 1.0L TSI AT fell flat as he wasn't ready to consider it. While I personally think that given the state of roads in KL , there won't be a noticeable difference in real world performance in the run upto 100 k.m.p.h. However, I'm told that the 1.5 TSI + DSG thrashes the 1.0 AT during overtaking on narrow KL highways.

It was now time to deal with the "Skoda dealership" experience. The salesman had offered 1 Lakh worth of benefits even without asking, citing it to be a "2022 model discount" and I knew what was coming next. I asked CA to join me for a PDI and he informed the sales guy.

Before going to the showroom for the PDI the next day, I googled "How to get a fair deal from liars".

[govindremesh]

Disclaimer: The conversations have been modified for the sake of humor, but the underlying message is real. At no point, was CA or I disrespectful to the showroom staff and vice versa.

The Kushaq PDI

Early signs of trouble were noticed when the sales guy (henceforth referred to as Wish ) WhatsApp'ed in the VIN. Decoding it revealed that it was a June 2022 car. Wish confirmed it, and stated that since 1.5L DSG was a "slow-moving" variant, they received the stock in October 2022. He further elaborated that it was a "display piece in our other showroom in Palakkad" and hence the discount.

Me: "Isn't Kushaq made in Pune, why would it take 3 months to reach you?"

Wish: "We don't have control over that sir, it usually takes 1 to 2 months to reach here. Our transport trucks are also made by Skoda with DSG, so it takes time to cover this distance in Indian road conditions. "

Me: "Is it possible to pick up a car at the factory?"

Wish: "Why would you want to do that?"

Me: "I'll ask my pet snail to transport the car to Thrissur since it'll be faster than Skoda's logistics"

Wish: "Good idea, the pet snail will also be more reliable than anything with a DSG, but no, you cant pick the car up at the factory"

Me: "Are you sure you don't have a newer car?"

Wish: "Only 1L AT in Ambition trim. They are so amazing that we're stuck with...errr... have plenty of cars in stock"

I smile, but then I see CA's face...

Me: "Nah, let's check the 1.5L DSG you got."

We see the car- covered in dust, standing in the showroom's backyard. Now that's abnormal for a "display car kept in the showroom". I checked the brake discs, hoping it to have a small layer of rust, as a car standing still for ~6 months and not driven should have some; but the brake discs were shiny clean. While the car appeared to have no scratches and paint quality was ok. The interior did not have plastic covers on most things.

Wish: "We remove all plastic covers for display cars so that customers can experience seating comfort."

Me: "Yeah, right" * starts the car to check the ODO*

Odometer: 220 KM.

Me: "WTH? Why is this car driven for 200+ kilometers despite this being a display piece?"

Wish: " What else do you expect when we don't have a designated test drive car .....err..... The new car was driven to and from our satellite showroom that's 65 KM away since our thin margins do not allow us to flatbed it to these locations from our stockyard here"

Me: "So you have no problem selling a 200+ KM driven car as new? When does the warranty start?"

Wish: "We do have a problem- Since we're being transparent with our customers and don't reset the ODO as a lot of dealers do. This is a big problem for us as we go against the brand's best practices by retaining our integrity and being honest with our customers. As for the Warranty of this car, it only started in August 2022. "

At this time, I've made up my mind not to take this car, but wanted to probe further.

Me: "Why did the warranty start in August?"

Wish: "In Skoda's calendar, August comes after October in the same year, but we understand that the general public follows a different calendar. This is the reason why every Skoda dealer is offering huge discounts on new cars, which people misinterpret as discounts due to low sales :( . We're further adding the offer of 4 years maintenance package. We'll add another year of warranty with our compliments".

Lies, Lies, and more lies. As I go through the inspection, I spot a rusted battery base plate in the engine bay, faded plastics on the exterior trim, and a dirty roof-liner in the interior. CA spotted my disappointed look and told Wish that we'll think over it.

Wish: "The defects you point to are actually features for model year 2023, look at the textured design of the battery holder and the faded effect on the plastics! However we'll remove those if you don't like it. "

CA: "I'm having second thoughts now as the S-Cross is working just fine and this specific car seems to be a compromise.

Me: "Are you sure there's no other car of the same spec in your stockyard or other showrooms ?"

Wish: "I'm very sure, I've double checked and this is the only 1.5TSI + DSG in Style variant. The only other car for this engine + gearbox is a Monte Carlo, which you've decided against".

As we head into the showroom towards the exit, CA casually glances at a Silver Kushaq inside the showroom and asks Wish "What variant is this?"

Wish: "Err..should be 1L Style Manual"

Me: (peeking inside) "It's an Automatic, would you open the bonnet?"

Wish opens the bonnet and the engine bay is tightly packed. Yep, it's a 1.5L engine in there.

Me (looking at wish): "So?"

Wish runs for cover and returns with his manager. He starts to apologize but is cut short by his manager. Let's refer to the manager as SM

CA: "Where did this 1.5L Auto come from? You told us that the June 2022 Grey car was the only one in stock?"


SM: "We're proud to be a customer focussed showroom. Since I heard you echoing concerns to Wish about the allotted car in the backyard, I called up Skoda and they airdropped a new Kushaq while you were checking out the other car!"

Me (checking the VIN): "It's July 2022 car and Skoda airdropped this now, that too inside the showroom? (looks up to the ceiling to spot a Kushaq-sized hole) Why should we believe you?"

Wish: (Shows me the inventory list): Sorry, it's an oversight since the car was in between the 1L variants on our inventory list. Here's the list, you can check yourself. We have a Monte Carlo in stock and 1.5L manual. All other (new) cars are 1L variants.

I check the inventory- the 1.5L DSG Monte Carlo was a November 2022 car, and all December 2022 and Jan 2023 cars were 1L variants. CA didn't want Monte Carlo, so the only option we had now was the silver -July 2022 made car.

I checked the car- it had plastic wraps (wasn't this showroom supposed to remove it from the display cars?), and the engine bay was clean- no rust. Brake discs had a rust layer (as expected) and the ODO read 34 KM. The headliner was clean and the plastic pieces were not faded Tires had the "new tire color lines" in a faded manner (I don't know what the colored lines are called). Fired up the engine, seemed normal. Went through the remaining checklist items and found nothing to complain about.

Checked out a 1L AT (Dec 2022) car and it had 16 KM on ODO, and so did a Slavia standing in the showroom. So this Kushaq was driven a maximum of 16 KM after coming from the factory. The warranty start was confirmed to be the date of the invoice.

The MBA in me made a final attempt to pitch the November manufactured 1L Style AT to CA, justifying the lower price+higher reliability+ similar performance in 0-100 km/hr (enough for KL roads), which was shot down at the spot (re-confirming how crazy he's about driving pleasure) the car was given a green signal. It was time for some hard negotiation, given all the lies till now.

SM: For our mistake, we will give you this silver car at the price of that grey car. But since you're asking for more discount, I still don't understand your fascination for a "newly manufactured" car and your rationale behind asking for a discount on this car that's factory fresh. Could you please explain how a car parked for 6 months goes bad, to me? Forget a car, I even buy bread that's 6 months old and look at me!

Two photos from the PDI (Body panels were taken in close up, no point posting it!)

ODO reading. Wish claimed that this car was in the "transit mode". Anyone with common sense could find the lie in that statement with this picture.



Didn't know that Kushaq gets ventilated seats!

[govindremesh]

Negotiation starts

The shortest part of this story since I left that to CA. Why? Because when my dad brought our car in 2015, my negotiation attempt fell flat, with us paying 7K extra as "handling charges" to the then Honda dealer in Kochi. Why did we agree to that? The waiting period was cut short from 3 months to 3 weeks (V variant in Petrol was in high demand) and in return, they said "If you don't want to pay, then we'll give you full refund as there are other customers in queue to pick up this car". So we ended up with a car that was at maximum, 4 weeks old from the time it rolled off the assembly line. It passed the PDI with flying colors and is still serving us without any tantrums.

Typically, I would stay away from a car that's sitting in inventory for over 3 months and pay the premium for a "new-new" car. But here, CA was willing to take the discount. So armed with the information in Ajmat's wonderful thread (ARTICLE: Buying a New car with an Older manufacturing date) I proceeded to pitch in with these points in the negotiation talk.

The trick is to play a slow game ,asking them to give us an offer that we couldn't refuse while making abundantly clear that we're serious buyers. We maintained that we were in no hurry to buy a car and even if we wanted a Kushaq, we were ready to wait for a 2023 manufactured vehicle. This stance helped get a deal, and the benefits kept adding over a period of 8 hours (we got the final offer after we left the showroom without a decision to buy). Once we saw that they were trying their best to get us take the car, we doubled down on our stance.

The initial offer was:

80K off the OTR price + 4 years SMP for the June 2022 Grey color car with 220 KM on Odometer.

Final offer:

1L off the OTR price + 4 years SMP + 2
year warranty extension (total 6 year warranty) from date of Invoice (the date we make the payment) + free accessory pack worth 10K + our own insurance - for July 2022 Silver colour car with 32 KM on Odometer.

No handling charges or whatsoever was levied. The deal was finalized 4 working days before I was about to return to the Netherlands, so CA asked if it was possible for a delivery before I returned. The dealer said they will try their best and set expectations that the best possible would be a "ceremony-less" delivery on Sunday (since the dealer is closed)

[govindremesh]

Delivery Day

We reached the showroom around 2 PM. As expected, there was just one sales guy (not the guy who sold us the car) and the security guard. The car was ready in the showroom. While the sales guy got CA to sign the papers, I inspected the car once more.

We had very low expectations from the delivery and it was good- because the car had a thin layer of dust on it which was not visible, but touch the car and one could see it on their hand. The brakes were not cleaned either. There was an evidence of a hurried water wash (drying stains). We didn't complain - they delivered the car on time with the HSRP installed (as mandated by the RTO). Pointed the shortcomings to CA and asked him to take it up with Wish for a detailing session.

The guy in the showroom helped in taking off the plastic covers on the seats (The ones that I had made fuss about during PDI of the first car ). The delivery was a quick one- papers signed, a bag with the documents and chocolates handed over, the key cut-out handover and then drive off. The quickest car-delivery I've experienced till date

Soon after delivery, CA went to his ancestral home and I to mine (to finish packing). Upon his return, both families went for a short test drive- with me at the wheel. Didn't push hard given the run in period, but the drive revealed how responsive and smooth the DSG is compared to the DCT in KIA. The ride quality is good too!

The day ended with the Kushaq being blessed at a nearby temple and it being parked where the S-Cross used to be (which was sold off to Maruti TrueValue in a matter of minutes, two days before delivery). Hours later, I took off to the airport and started my return journey to the Netherlands.

This was the first time that I was involved in a purchase of a car >20L, one that was not "Fresh off the assembly line". Some practical lessons learnt in negotiation, while putting the theoretical knowledge of PDI shared in this forum to practical use. Looking back, we probably would have got a little bit more off on the price if we had pushed harder and waited a day or two before confirming while nitpicking the smaller defects with the car - but since the deal was done at a lighting pace and the delivery date was as promised, I think we got a fair deal.

What about the Grey car with 220 KM?

I hope it's not passed on as "new car" to an unsuspecting customer. However, it would be a deal for a customer who's looking to keep the car for less than 4 years, gets it with SMP + extended warranty+ a minimum of 2 lakhs in discount (ideally 3 Lakhs). Good for chauffeured business people, who can capitalize on depreciation benefits and leave the runs to the service station to their drivers, if the worst happens.

Would I recommend the dealership to anyone?

Yes, as long as they do a proper PDI and negotiate properly. Looking back, the goof ups and white lies they showcased are part of any car sales process. The staff was courteous throughout and kept most of their promises, especially in critical areas. They owned up their mistakes and in my view, did well to close the deal.

Anyone who wants to buy a Skoda car in Thrissur can go to them as long as they do the PDI correctly. For reference everyone goofs up- there's a thread on this forum where someone got a wrong coloured Maruti registered on their registration document, and another one where a BMW was delivered with bird poop after-stains.

No car dealer is a saint, it's a business at the end of the day. You either be smart or be outsmarted.

Some words of wisdom

1. White lies are a part of normal car sales strategy. Do not take it personally, but do use facts and common sense to asses the words of a salesperson and to build a case to get a good deal. The more they use white lies, the more opportunity for you to counter them and get a great deal.
   
   
2. Always do a PDI in daylight before you sign any purchase related documents. Take a 3rd party with you if you suspect your judgement might be clouded by excitement.
   
   
3. When you do discover that facts do not match the words of the salesperson, do not lose your temper. Yelling at or belittling someone doesn't help anyone. Instead, use the facts you have in hand for a better deal/car. Be stern yet polite.
   
   
4. Not all cars are perfect and nitpicking PDI defects will result in sleepless nights. Evaluate what you're gaining when you trade off something. Let's say, if it's a minor scratch- get some cash discount (or reject and wait for another car if you're a PPF fanatic). Some defect that can be easily fixed without taking the car apart? Get it done before delivery.
   
   
5. If everything falls in place and still you're offered something that you believe is too good to be true, then take the offer in writing.
   
   
6. Always prepare a "Walk away" scenario before heading to finalize a deal. This walk-away scenario is when the offer given is completely unacceptable and there's no further room for negotiation. Examples include a damaged car/ old inventory for a very small discount and no room for negotiation, forcing to buy freebies without any obvious benefits (eg: early delivery, preferred variant/color change at the last moment), asking for advance payment before you see the allotted vehicle, refusing PDI or a visit to their yard and so on.

Delivery done, signing off!

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Dealerships section. Thanks for sharing!

Going to our homepage later this week

[Maky]

Thank you for sharing your experience with your VAG purchase.

Originally Posted by govindremesh

No car dealer is a saint, it's a business at the end of the day. You either be smart or be outsmarted.

I especially want to thank you for this comment. People go ga-ga over alot of non-VAG car dealers but the fact remains they are running a business, some are smooth talking pretenders and some are blunt to the point.

Do your independent research. Do not be fooled by your initial showroom experience with the well trained staff, similarly do not be disheartened if the sales person wasn't to your satisfaction and walk away from your dream car.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Some words of wisdom

Excellent summary to a wonderfully narrated story. Wise words indeed listed above. Congratulations to CA for his new car. It’ll certainly get him to Trivandrum in a jiff.

5. If everything falls in place and still you're offered something that you believe is too good to be true, then take the offer in writing.

Good point. I’d just add that if its too good to be true, then it invariably is some red flag or the other. Do check once for what you might have missed outright before sealing the deal.

[vinya_jag]

Very similar experience on our Octavia 2022 Feb purchase. Car was ready in the stockyard, since we only wanted white, and it was up for immediate delivery. Checked with the sales advisor about how old it was and the answer was November. We did a PDI, and as I approached the car, it was very dirty and they had not cared to give it a wash, but the car was full wrapped up, the entire car had a layer of sticker on it. That was impressive. Odo had about 90Kms on it. I did ask them how far was the stockyard etc, and they had some answers.

I did not want to probe further. I also had noticed a small black blemish on the door side panel, but was okay to give it a pass despite all my doubts. I also did not care to check the Manufacturing date on Team-BHP as I was mostly okay with the PDI.

Delivery was quick, and then came the RC.

Guess what, it was another July 2021 model

I wonder what is with these Skoda cars, and how there are stocks piled up, and why they lie about these dates so much.

Strangest conversation that I can remember having with the Sales rep was, when I asked if I have to be doubly careful when going about buying a car in the stock pile, and his answer was, "Sir we don't do anything such for preimium customers" - Couldn't get the exact translation of his words in Kannada.

All said, we have had a wonderful 1 year and more on our car. So, feel safe and enjoy a trouble free ride for years to come.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Final offer:

1L off the OTR price + 4 years SMP + 2
year warranty extension (total 6 year warranty) from date of Invoice (the date we make the payment) + free accessory pack worth 10K + our own insurance - for July 2022 Silver colour car with 32 KM on Odometer.

The entire thread was fun to read! Thanks for sharing & congratulations to your family/members for the new Kushaq.

Now that's some crazy negotiation / deal achieved. I can't imagine why the dealer has bent over backwards so much, with a new car per se , no matter what all might have happened.

I seriously suggest - you start a consulting service for car deal negotiations. People (me included) - will pay you well for the service.

[Transmission]

Congratulations to CA - thats a very good deal indeed. Hopefully he finds the reliability he seeks

I had a couple of questions, if you could help me understand this process better (I am about to muy my first car, so inexperienced in this process)

Originally Posted by govindremesh

...
The warranty start was confirmed to be the date of the invoice.
...

Is there a way to confirm this, as opposed to take the salesperson's word for it?

...
ODO reading. Wish claimed that this car was in the "transit mode". Anyone with common sense could find the lie in that statement with this picture.
...

Sorry if I sound stupid, but what's transit mode and how is it obvious that it was a lie with that pic of the console?
Are you referring to the odo being 34KM and that proving that it was clearly driven for a short distance - probably from the stockyard to the showroom or something?

Thanks!

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by Transmission

Is there a way to confirm this, as opposed to take the salesperson's word

Thanks!

Post purchase,you will see the 'warranty valid till' date as 4 years from the date of purchase in the Skoda app.

Couple of points I understood during my purchase and PDI at yard -

From factory Skoda cars are speed locked with the engine check light ON so that it can be driven only minimum distance for transit. Engine warning light will be ON when you start the car. It is removed before registration at the dealer level.

Look at the first service days left in the infotainment screen. It is initially configured from date of shipment from factory. It is also reset to the date of sale at the dealer level.

[Transmission]

Originally Posted by thanixravindran

Post purchase,you will see the 'warranty valid till' date as 4 years from the date of purchase in the Skoda app.

Thanks!
Any way to confirm this before the purchase is decided/made (without relying on the salesperson's words)?

[dolphinjazz]

What a wonderful write up! The way you have illustrated, the points you took up, will help a lot of new (even used) car buyers in taking a correct decision.

Hope CA is having fun with the car.

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by Transmission

Thanks!
Any way to confirm this before the purchase is decided/made (without relying on the salesperson's words)?

No, I am not aware of any. In my limited understanding of dealer - Manufacturer CRM system, the sale has to be recorded in the system to start the warranty date. So ideally it should be the date of your invoice.

[Safedriver2023]

I think the Skoda website says the same about 4 years warranty as standard. I have seen the same way the dealer pushing for the car in hand rather than getting from the company yard from both skoda and VW before the purchasing of kushaq dsg. I had to get things escalated to skoda by calling the customer care and then I got a October manufactured car on December. Kindly try getting the extended warranty as I received offer like10 percent this month though I have already purchased last month. Congratulations on your new car