[rajakumar]

Originally Posted by iamswift

BTW, why did you not wait till 20K is complete for 4th service?

Was told by the SA, that maruti recommends changing the fluids at 20K or 2 year interval. My swift is 2 years old now.

Does maruti really recommend changing the fluids at 2 year interval? Should I insist on changing it at 20K interval?

[pragya]

I own Zen estilo and i have to go for my fourth servicing.
Can someone tell me what all things are done in 4th servicing.
I was thinking of not going to Maruti service center this time, rather getting everything done at either castrol or somewhere else.
The car has no technical faults nor any breakage etc so no replacement of parts is required.
I want good performance stuff to be added like getting some good quality engine oile and gear oil, having good spark plugs etc.
Can someone let me know what all will be chaged in 4th service and what all best stuff to go for.

[Eddy]

Pragya, all the things that need to be changed will be mentioned in the service booklet of your car. I am guessing all filters (except fuel filter) and all oils will be changed. Don't fall for gimmicks like decarbonisation, flushing etc.

If you go to a non MASS, your warranty / extended warranty may no longer be valid. Please decide accordingly.

[gsbhatia]

4th service (1st paid) service at 20k is due for my Swift P (non K-series, G13BB). After going through this (and other) posts, and from my past experience, I've decided to purchase critical fluids from market instead of relying on MGA, and take it to the service station.

I've purchased the following (from the well known Batra parts shop@Ajit Arcade in East of Kailash):

1. NGK G-Power spark plugs - x4@Rs. 750
2. Castrol Magnatec 10w40 Engine Oil - 3.5L@Rs. 1000
3. Purolator Oil Filter for Maruti MPFI - 1pc@Rs. 55
4. Castrol SAE 90 Gear Oil - 2L@350

Before going to the service center, I have a few questions:

1. Is 10w40 correct engine oil specification for Swift? Swift manual suggests 20w40 and the shopkeeper was handing me 10w30, though I insisted on 10w40. I hope it's the correct oil specification (or at least better than recommended). What do you experts feel? Also, does Swift require AT MOST 3.5L (as opposed to say 3.6L)? Because I'd rather err on the higher side than lower.

2. I had gone with the intention to purchase Mobilube GX 80W90 Gear Oil which the shop unfortunately didn't carry so I settled for Castrol SAE 90 grade. This seems to be a constant grade as opposed to 75w90 recommended by Maruti. When I inquired about this, the shopkeeper assured me that this is exactly what other Swift owners buy. Although a bit reluctant, I bought it on shopkeeper's promise that I can replace it anytime I wish. Is constant 90 grade (Castrol make) within Swift's tolerance limit? Also, I purchased 2L but I guess I've read somewhere that Swift may require 2.1L or 2.2L? This oil comes in 1L bottle. Should I purchase one more bottle or is 2L enough?

3. I may not be present at the M.A.S.S. at the time of service, so if one wants to verify whether service folks really did replace the spark plugs, is there a DIY way of verifying it?

4. I did not buy brake fluid or coolant from spares shop. I hope the MGA ones are as good as branded ones. Or should I purchase those too?

From my previous bills I found that MASS charges more for parts and liquids than neighborhood spares shop. On top they charge ridiculous amount of VAT which the spares shop guy embezzles , so I found it prudent to buy spares and oils from neighborhood spares shop instead of MASS

[GT500]

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

4
From my previous bills I found that MASS charges more for parts and liquids than neighborhood spares shop. On top they charge ridiculous amount of VAT which the spares shop guy embezzles , so I found it prudent to buy spares and oils from neighborhood spares shop instead of MASS

I totally agree with you on that, BUT does MASS allow the user to give his own parts/liquids for regular service?
Cause last time I checked , they refused to accept my mobil delvax mx for the oil and told me that they'll only use the oil they have i.e. some castrol.

If that is the case, then I might look at some savings from the estimated 20k service cost of ~6k

Cheers

GT

[gsbhatia]

It's a grey area. It really depends on the SA. On what kind of rapport you've built. I'm a Maruti Service Masters old timer and have been their customer since 8+ years. In fact I did call them up to ask if they'd allow me to bring my own fluids. The lady at front desk transferred me to some workshop guy who flatly refused - "Nahin ji, aap apna teyl nahin la sakte!". Then I searched my previous bill copies and called up the SA who took care of my last service. He wasn't such a pr*ck and said - "koi baat nahin, le aayiye. Daal deinge".

I plan to take the fluids along with me sometime this week. I hope they allow it. Otherwise I'll raise a hue and cry

[guptavis]

Good thought, i was also planning to do the same!
But when i called up the MASS to ask about it, they flatly refused. They said they cannot allow outside material to be used. When i said i'll only bring engine oil they still refused.

Even carnation Chandigarh refused me to get anything from outside. They use castrol gtx which i dont want!

[GT500]

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

I plan to take the fluids along with me sometime this week. I hope they allow it.

Which workshop do you use? I'm looking for a change.

Actually parts is the only area where they can finally manipulate and increase the overall bill. You snatch this ability from them and their colors shall change like a chameleon.

Though, one thing, you simply cant be sure that the oil/other fluids you have given shall be used or simply a cheaper one that they stock, and sell off yours unless you plan to babysit your car throughout the service.

Well, I cant say that I have a good rapport with my current workshop, I'm a very difficult customer to please. ;-)

The only reason to go to MASS is because of warranty.

I'll wait for the warranty period to end, and find a good workshop that does regular servicing, buy my own stuff and babysit through out the process provided the workshop is at par with MASS

Cheers

GT

[GTO]

I've always carried a can of synthetic oil to authorised service stations. Rightly said, it all depends on your rapport with the service advisor. Of course, if you bring mineral oil, they'll insist you use their supply instead (thick profit margins on oil). However, few authorised outlets carry synthetics and hence, it's easier for them to accommodate.

[Sushubh]

strange. i thought authorized service stations would never allow third party oil and other components!

[gsbhatia]

Originally Posted by Gt500

Which workshop do you use? I'm looking for a change.

I've been going to MSM (Maruti Service Masters) Okhla since last many years. If you go through the forum, you'll find MANY members with horror stories associated with MSM. More bad than good. Honestly, I've never faced any major problem so far. They've been OK. I'll give them 6/10 rating. It's hard to expect better service unless you personally know any workshop guy.

Originally Posted by GTO

I've always carried a can of synthetic oil to authorised service stations. Rightly said, it all depends on your rapport with the service advisor. Of course, if you bring mineral oil, they'll insist you use their supply instead (thick profit margins on oil). However, few authorised outlets carry synthetics and hence, it's easier for them to accommodate.

They make unbelievable profits on oil. Get a load of this - At the time of my 2nd service, MASS charged me 200/L for mediocre SF grade SERVO engine oil (MGO). Then 5 months later, on next service they charged 220/L. This is exclusive of taxes. VAT was, I guess, 12% or 20% on top of that. Outside MASS, the same oil was available for 158/L. That's 40% price hike even after disregarding taxes! Considering that the poor neighborhood Mr. Spare selling at 158/L would also be making some profit at least, and that MASS orders oil in bulk, it amounts of at least 50% profit margins for MASS. Then multiply it with slew of customers. Delicious! Same analysis was true for oil filter. Outside it was 55. MASS charged 75 + taxes.

Originally Posted by Sushubh

strange. i thought authorized service stations would never allow third party oil and other components!

Yeah, they equate it to bringing your own whiskey to a bar. I personally don't construe it as such because, unlike my whiskey, I as a layman, may not necessarily know how to consume my oil, outside their workshop and without their assistance, though I may usually be aware what's better for my car. Also it makes sense to club all *my* favourite goodies at the time of service. In all fairness they should.

[gsbhatia]

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

4th service (1st paid) service at 20k is due for my Swift P (non K-series, G13BB).

Got 4th (1st paid) service done today at MSM Okhla, Delhi.

Total cost came out to about INR. 5250. Breakup as follows:

Non MASS:
1. Engine oil (non-OEM, Castrol magnatec) externally sourced: 1000
2. NGK G-Power spark plugs: 750

MASS:
1. Trivial parts like bulb, hood link, clamp etc: 50
2. Air cleaner: 170
3. Brake fluid GC 1500AA (250 ML pack): 2x140=280
4. Gear Oil: 2.3x280=650
5. Wheel balancing weight: 150
6. Paid service labour: 910
7. Caliper greasing: 270
8. Drum brake cleaning: 270
9. Wheel allignment: 400
10. Wheel balancing: 5 wheels@70/wheel = 350
11. Taxes: 500
12. Discount (coupon I got at time of insurance renewal): -500

One can easily save at least 1k more, since non MASS wheel alignment + balancing (for 1 weight only) costs 300 in South Delhi, for which MASS charged me 750. I would recommend getting it done else where if one has time and patience.

I was charged 280/L + taxes for crappy SERVO gear oil whilst much superior Castrol/Mobil costs about 180/L. Also, I was charged @2.3L. I had always thought that requirement for Swift gear oil is 2L. So if you plan to take your own gear oil, make sure you take a bit more than 2L.

At the time of opening the job card, SA (new guy at MSM) didn't quite like the sight of me bringing my own motor oil + spark plugs. But I played "old time customer" card, and it worked like charm. Also telling him on his face why Servo SF sucks in comparison to SM grade made him (though a bit reluctantly) accept my merchandise. Then I inquired if coolant *change* is really required as opposed to *topping* it up. By now he had probably realized that I'm not another white-bread customer, and told me that, yes, coolant can be topped up at 20k and changed at much later time. I dared him that I can absolutely afford new coolant (although it was me who had started this topic) and that I wouldn't want to save on existing coolant fill. He said - not necessary, given the existing coolant condition in my car. Then I double dared him. Same reply. Consequently, I gave him a go. To my surprise he finally topped it up, from halfway between low and high, to full level for FREE! Go MASS! Go nice SA!

After the service when I turned on the ignition, I was WOW'ed. I was leaning against the car and I couldn't feel that it was turned on. Getting car just after service always makes a difference but this was not my first time. I have had at least 15 MASS services in last 10 years, every time with the same characterless MGO (read SERVO) motor oil, but this was different. Absolutely different. Difference between lifeless SF and SM grade was apparent right away. I'm sure fully synthetic would feel even better. Thanks TBHP for helping me make an educated decision for the first time in a decade! I feel that selling SF grade Servo MGO should be made a non-bailable offence. Also, I saw sealed drums upon of drums of 10w30 Servo oil lined up in MASS backyard. I mean 15-20 of them without a single 20w40 drum, which they suggest for most of their cars. It could just be my wild imagination (and I hope it is) but it made me wonder whether they are putting 10w30 in ALL the cars regardless. Doesn't prove anything, really. Just an observation.

Driving on road is also quite apparently much smoother, with engine no longer squealing like a pig at extreme low rpm (high gear+low speed) as well as at high rpm (5k rpm in 3rd gear). Hope it lasts.

[BheemBoy]

When I gave my car at Varun Hyd, the advisor showed a copy (xerox) that listed the things to be done at 4th service internal.

It had engine decarbonization and many more stuff. I was very reluctant but said yes thinking that they will not dupe customer openly. The total bill came to around 8k+.

Later while surfing the site came to know that it was not at all required and that too at 20K, it was a big rip off.

Lesson learnt: Never to trust those guys with copies and should look into service booklet everytime. In fact If I had done some research here, I could have avoided it totally. Paid through my nose for laziness.

Car will be due for 30 K shortly. Scared to go to authorized service center and I am not sure about other independent service centers.

Many of the car owners like me hardly know anything other than driving. So as long as we don;t improve our knowledge, these SA Advisors will keep taking us for a ride time and again.

[gsbhatia]

Most important lesson (or peril, if you will) before doing ANY business in India - Do your drill before paying the bill.

Now I follow this algorithm before doing anything with my 4-banger:
1. I've read the manual. Completely. That's the least one can do. I know that at least Maruti gives the maintenance schedule through 80,000 KM in the owner manual. It usually narrows down the realm of search when I need to lookup something.

2. Research this wonderful forum. At this point it covers almost anything imaginable as far as Indian cars are concerned. If one has time, patience and most importantly, inclination, almost anything can be research to the bone. Moreover, a personal knowledge base is developed which stays for good and can be extrapolated in other contexts.

3. Make a knowledgeable decision. At least it gives a comfort of knowing something as opposed to nothing.

Well, do start another thread when you reach 30K. I'm sure it will be helpful to others when they reach there.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

Got 4th (1st paid) service done today at MSM Okhla, Delhi.

Total cost came out to about INR. 5250. Breakup as follows:

Non MASS:
1. Engine oil (non-OEM, Castrol magnatec) externally sourced: 1000
2. NGK G-Power spark plugs: 750

MASS:
1. Trivial parts like bulb, hood link, clamp etc: 50
2. Air cleaner: 170

As per Swift handbook, Air Filter needs to be changed only at 40K, not 20K if it's Petrol.
Is yours a Petrol or Diesel Swift?

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

10. Wheel balancing: 5 wheels@70/wheel = 350

The only time already balanced wheels need to be balanced is when they are removed from the wheel i.e. when repairing puncture in a tubed tyre.
Otherwise, balanced wheels stay balanced. No need to balance them at regular intervals

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

Also telling him on his face why Servo SF sucks in comparison to SM grade made him (though a bit reluctantly) accept my merchandise.

What's the diff between SF & SM Grade?

Originally Posted by gsbhatia

Then I inquired if coolant *change* is really required as opposed to *topping* it up. By now he had probably realized that I'm not another white-bread customer, and told me that, yes, coolant can be topped up at 20k and changed at much later time. I dared him that I can absolutely afford new coolant (although it was me who had started this topic) and that I wouldn't want to save on existing coolant fill. He said - not necessary, given the existing coolant condition in my car. Then I double dared him. Same reply. Consequently, I gave him a go. To my surprise he finally topped it up, from halfway between low and high, to full level for FREE! Go MASS! Go nice SA!

There is a good chance that he would have topped it with either tap water or distilled water. That's probably why you weren't.