[bharatbits]

Originally Posted by Ragavsr

Renegotiating isn't legal but renegotiating multiple times merely gets on the nerves. The dealership should have walked away but they proved they are no saints and taught the guy a lesson.

We have had to deal with difficult property buyers and this my business my rules is important to keep insane people at bay.

I am assuming you said Renegotiating isn't illegal.

Because a customer got on to one's nerves by renegotiating multiple times the dealer choosing to not abide by the contract he signed assuming, and after making fully sure, the customer has no evidence - is that legal?

In this case when the OP asked them for the EW, AMC they said they did not assure. OP said i don't have the proof to show but you assured me. This exchange of words goes on for a week. Smart ass sales guy and manager are now fully sure that the OP does not have proof and go overboard stating "Sir, we never assured you that we will give you EW, AMC. If you want we will give it in writing that we never assured" and gives it. After that the OP shares the recording which he did not deliberately show them so far with the intent of teaching them a lesson. Then it's khel khatam, dukaan bandh, (translates to Show Over, Curtains Down) for the dealership chaps. That's a popular Hyderabadi adage.

My phone many calls get recorded accidentally. In certain, largely nasty professions my acquaintances are in, they have call record on by default for all calls.

Originally Posted by Ragavsr

Lots of people in India think they are smart and the other person is dumb and illiterate and an iron hand is needed to deal with such folks.

Exactly

[fine69]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

If any seasoned experts can help me out here, it would be a huge help.

Here's what I have to say -

1) There's nothing left to be done. If you decide to do anything about it, you'd part with much more than 15k, I guarantee!

2) We all want the best deal but life has taught me that its much better to get a great deal than trying to land the best deal always.

3) Life is all about ups and downs and while you feel that someone cheated you of your hard earned 15k, I feel someone took their 15k fee for making you the best ever car buyer for all your (& your family's) future car purchases.

4) Yes you're as adult enough but it doesn't mean anything. The idea is to be wise but you thought being smart was enough. Don't take me the wrong way, there's no substitute for being wise than having to undergo our share of bitter experiences. The only other way of being wise is to learn from other's mistakes but that seldom happens, usually we all end up paying the price ourselves, just part of being human.

5) Enjoy the damn car already!

[bronco]

Congratulations on new car.! Do write ownership review once you have few thousand kms covered.

Coming to the experience, I echo what most of the members have said. I don’t want to repeat again.

Don’t take the responses in the forum to heart in a bad taste and get stressed.

Take it as a friendly advice, move on and enjoy your car.!

[sgm]

Hey mate,
You have picked up a great car. What matters is your long term experience and make it a memorable one by enjoying it.
In a country like ours, buying a car itself is a privilege and consider yourself as blessed and lucky. Maybe the deal is not the best deal as you would have liked it but make every effort to make it great by moving on and enjoying.
Happy motoring

[xway]

My 2 cents, sorry 5.7 lacs worth of comment -

Whats done is done now.

Lets say you paid 15k virtual (not calling it imaginary here) discount more -
but think that you have paid 5.7 lacs which is any day much more than 15k
so would you let 15k lesser discount get in the way of enjoying a 5.7 lac worth brand new car ?
think and dont lose out on the pleasure of enjoying a spick span new lovely vehichle which you got for your hard earned money - the pleasure of enjoying 5.7lacs worth new car is anyday greater than 15k of lesser discount received, in any case such hard negotiation and renegotiation is not done by most.

enjoy your priceless worth of millions feeling in your newly aquired 5.7 lacs worth car rather holding onto 15k worth of non-existent discount

[ps_abhijith]

While reading your post, I was wondering if I should comment or not, but after going through all the comments here, which echoes how I feel, I had to login and comment to this.

Tiago is one of the best cars you can buy in this price. Enjoy the car every moment.
Agree that AMC may not be of much use in the first few years unless you are covering a lot of miles.s totally worth every penny. My brother in law has a first gen Tiago which has ran 75+k km in past 2.5 years. The AMC and extended warranty together has saved him a small fortune.

To be honest, after reading through your post, I am still confused on whether you have the AMC + Extended warranty or not.
But if you dont, please get the extended warranty ASAP.
Even if nothing goes wrong, it will atleast provide you peace of mind, which most people considers more valuable than money.
The way you negotiated is wrong in my view and as per my ethics.
I am amazed that a TATA showroom went so far to honor the sale even after all this.

Again, enjoy the car and many more years to come with the car. Take good care of the car.

[MadRasTan4986]

I am surprised coming across this post about a dealer who I dealt with recently. I had no issues. In fact they were quite accomodating to our demands and requests and even gave a good price and adhered to timeline and delivery. Purchased a Nexon XZA+ in November. Recently gave it for service and I was surprised how polite and courteous the Lakshmi service people were as well.

Sorry to hear about this ordeal but I feel almost everyone here has voiced and pointed out everything that went wrong. So the best thing would be to agree and come to terms and accept what happened and move on. Enjoy your drive. It's one of the most solidly built cars for the price. And plus with all the features in it with the brilliant audio and ride quality, you have got a very good deal IMHO.

[superbad]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

We negotiated and even if it is dirty, doesn't involve fraud or cheating.

I thought this forum was having people who could actually offer helpful advice.

From some helpful comments i get that this is a hopeless case without any solid hard evidence but that's also because those guys never agreed to give anything in writing. Even after paying advance.

1) By negotiating, if you mean using your family contacts in order to haggle with the dealer, then it's questionable. Just like you would like to have a single point of contact in the dealership, the dealer also deserves a single point of contact as the customer. He is not liable to discuss the same thing with multiple people & repeat himself. Why was the insurance deal not closed by you? Why was full payment not initiated by you in person? The dealer reneged on his words just to get back at you, no other reason. Tit for tat.

2) Helpful advice has been offered. Enjoy the car & forget about the rest.

[revsperminute]

Congratulations on the new car! Drive safe and enjoy your miles.

I think we often overlook the hardships of car dealerships. The margin on new cars is really not much and it is a very capital intensive sector to do business in. Often the effort put in is not justified by the outcome. We should always ensure that the process is smooth both for us and the dealer. We Indians have a misconception that buyers are incarnations of God and everything we say has to be followed. This is not the case. So keep calm and carry on.

[itsmb]

First of all congratulations on your acquisition, it looks HOT in Red. After reading your experience I recollected my car buying experience a year ago.
I bought a Renault Kwid in Dec 18 in exchange for my Fiesta. I had made it clear to SA that I'll proceed with the deal only when I get a good price for my Fiesta.
The SA came to my office with his used car advisor(Sardar Ji) to inspect Fiesta, he quoted 40k for my car. I simply denied it.
Next day some other SA and UCA from the same dealership arrive at my office to give me a better deal(in their words). They drive my car, offer me 50k; I offered them tea and biscuits and told them that I am already in conversation with that particular SA and Sardar Ji so I'll finalise a deal with them only. The next day the previous SA and Sardar Ji arrived at my office, we had a long chat(read negotiation) and they offered me 70k for my Fiesta. I closed the deal for Fiesta and started negotiation for Kwid, SA told me that I am asking for too much and he needs to speak to his senior for that huge discount.
30 mins later his senior arrives at my office, long story cut short, they offered me 70k for my Fiesta, Free Insurance, Free extended Warranty and RSA, No handling/ logistic charges, 25k cash discount. Not bad for an entry-level car.
Things I did right-
1. Kept only one SA and Used car analyst as my point of contact.
2. When any other SA approached me I entertained him but did not speak to him regarding the deal.
3. The deal with senior was finalised in person and in black and white.
4. Moment I finalised the deal deleted my Fiesta's ad on OLX.
5. Remained polite, confident and adamant during the entire conversation/ deal and did not involve any other relative/ friend in the deal.
The SA and his senior might have realised that I am a money-minded person but not shrewd.
Everyone's money (barring a few) is hard-earned, you respect it by keeping your financial promises. Once its a deal then either its a deal or no deal, negotiations are not allowed unless the other party is cheating.
This is a good learning experience for you and will make you more Mature.
Happy Motoring

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

I am assuming you said Renegotiating isn't illegal.

Because a customer got on to one's nerves by renegotiating multiple times the dealer choosing to not abide by the contract he signed assuming, and after making fully sure, the customer has no evidence - is that legal?

In this case when the OP asked them for the EW, AMC they said they did not assure. OP said i don't have the proof to show but you assured me. This exchange of words goes on for a week. Smart ass sales guy and manager are now fully sure that the OP does not have proof and go overboard stating "Sir, we never assured you that we will give you EW, AMC. If you want we will give it in writing that we never assured" and gives it. After that the OP shares the recording which he did not deliberately show them so far with the intent of teaching them a lesson.

Renegotiation works both ways. In this case, from the OP's point of view, He at some point asked for AMC to be included, but subsequently there were multiple negotiations by other parties where he was not involved. The only proof he has is that HE asked for AMC to be included. He does not have any proof to prove that these other parties did not say anything which might have gone against that. Anything could have happened. All we have is his word that the conditions of the deal did not change, and only the pricing was asked to be reduced. One of these other parties might have given contrary directions, and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, if the salesman felt that AMC was one of those things which was a bit of a grey area, and had not been nailed down. This is why you do not have multiple parties negotiate in parallel - to avoid the potential for confusion, because now both sides have plausible deniability.

More than the verbal contract, there was a written contract on record - the Invoice - I assume the AMC was not in it (else we would not be having this discussion) and the abscence of the AMC in it was never raised. Instead, the OP proceeded with payment. It appears the dealership also tried successfully to renegotiate the deal when the invoice was generated, and seems the OP consented through his negligence. If the OP feels it is fair to renegotiate after an agreement - He's being very hypocritical when he accuses the dealer of changing terms after agreeing to something.

Also people saying the dealer is shady for not giving things in writing - This is justified in my book - You have a customer using other dealers quotes to drive down this dealer's quote. THey are most likely doing the same with other dealers also - Manufacturers work across dealers to ensure prices are maintained, because while competition is good, extreme price cutting by one dealer is not fair to the others, as this may reflect better terms a manufacturer might have given to that dealer (let's just say its complicated) and If one dealer gets reported as offering discounts beyond agreed amounts, they will suddenly find themselves not getting those incentives/terms any more. Ideally neither dealer is supposed to offer prices this low, and they are certainly not going to risk getting into the bad books of the manufacturer by providing documentary proof of it to someone who may not even give you their business.

[Vians]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

For all of you asking why we don't have anything in writing, these dealership salespeople including sales lead said throughout the process that they won't give anything in writing.

If they said before we paid and loan was through, we would have found another dealer. If they weren't ready for renegotiation after getting token advance, they could have said so.

.

In order to process the loan,you would need a detailed quote from the dealer. Since you worked on loan and insurance, did you not notice the quote which had no price for AMC and extended warranty?

[Starfire]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

I got what all of you are saying.


I thought this forum was having people who could actually offer helpful advice. For everyone siding with the dealer without understanding how this is lopsided as a case, please ignore the thread and don't comment on how it was my mistake or whatever.

If you have any helpful comments at all on how i can get what we were promised, please let me know.

First of all, congrats on the beauty.

I just want to say I'm sorry if you felt bullied by some of the comments above calling you over smart, immature, that you deserved it or the fact that you're making life hard for others. This is one of the first threads I've seen where the members are being so hostile. In my opinion, something said once is a mistake, the same thing said twice is on purpose. I hope the senior mods smoothen out some of the harsh edges of a few comments above.


Some take-home points:

•If your elders play such an important role in the decision, next time let any ONE of them do the deal and you stay out of it.

•You don't need to buy sweets for the SA, but if I were you, the least I would do would be to meet him and sort out the misunderstanding. You never know, the good gesture of yours might just end you up with a good after-sales service/ some post-sales freebies or at least a smile on the face of both parties. Also, remember never to put phone numbers with names and location of work when criticizing someone in public without the whole picture being clear. The other party can sue you over defamation.

•Documentation is key. If you are really that concerned of even a 1000 bucks when buying a car worth 6 LAKHS, you would have been all the more careful to take it all in writing. Now imagine doing the same deal but while buying a house, YOU WOULD HAVE ENDED UP LOSING LAKHS!

•There's no sense crying over spilt milk. Think of it as you just had dinner in a restaurant worth a few thousand last week and the food is already digested out of your system. Move on brother. It's not the end of the world. If you still want to box it out. There's always consumer court, but then you'll end up spending ten times the amount to save the same. Think about it.

Lastly, Wishing you many happy and safe miles with your new car.

[iamwhatiam]

Originally Posted by bharatbits

I am assuming you said Renegotiating isn't illegal.

...

Sorry for continuing an off-topic conversation.

I find your point of view extremely interesting, and despite it being very different from how I (and likely many others on this forum) perceive the world, I can't really say it's wrong. I guess it depends on how you approach a deal. Many people start a negotiation assuming that it's a competition ('I win only when the other loses'), while many others assume it's a collaboration ('Both can have reasonable wins'). Most Indians lean towards the former category, but I'm pleasantly surprised to see that most BHPians on this thread tilt towards the latter.

Finally, let's be honest. OP tried to make this a competitive negotiation. He played many moves, including many underhanded ones, and made many mistakes along the process, including not getting a written agreement. The dealership are no saints - they played their own moves.

In the end, the OP gets a nice car for slightly more than he wanted to pay, and some life lessons along the way. He also got some feedback on his sales technique from an unbiased forum of people who don't know him, which may very well be different from the echo chamber that families/friends can often become.

That's not a bad deal, no?

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by shrvenkataraman

For all of you asking why we don't have anything in writing, these dealership salespeople including sales lead said throughout the process that they won't give anything in writing.

Without anything in writing how did the loan papers go through? A proforna invoice for the said amount (most cases, at the least the basic on road value) needs to be mentioned and submitted to the bank. Not sure if this process worked for you differently.

You got this on yourself by trying too hard and trying to trick the dealer. Bargaining hard no bad, but the ways used certainly is.

Last but not the least, expecting Teambhp forum to stand behind you when you are at the wrong end is the last thing to happen. This certainly is not a grievance redresal forum to post to garner support.