[Brumby]

Hello Friends,

Apologies in advance for a long and boring post, but its worth reading.

I have had a bad experience with MASS "Fortpoint Automotive Pvt. Ltd." at Thane (Maharashtra).

The incident happened in March 2017, when I gave my car, a Second generation Swift (petrol) for periodic service. The service advisor, amongst other things did mention that I must do the throttle body cleaning and quoted the labour charge and cost of spares to be used.

I had another issue with the car with central locking. The driver side door though operated with the central locking system, but manual operation was not possible. Without even saying that he will check the issue to find the cause, the service advisor said that this is a common issue with Suzuki cars and will need to replace the complete locking assembly for the driver's side door. I requested him to call me to check personally once the unit is dismantled.

During the day he called me up saying that the driver's side door lock assembly has been checked and will require replacement. I told him that I'll come to the service centre to see it personally. When I reached the service bay, I saw that the throttle body of my car was being assembled, upon looking at the sealing rings, I did find something fishy and then the conversation goes like this :

Me : Are the sealing rings new?
Technician : Yes.

Me : Really (I asked to see the rings and saw them was having a coat of dust upon the surface and no shine as on a new ring), they don't seem like new.
Tech : Its new.

Me : Where are the old ones?
Tech : I threw them away.

Me : Why? Where are the packets (with bar codes) of the new ones?
Tech : (After a failed attempt to search for the packets), I dropped them on the floor and the sweeper must have swept them away to the garbage.

Unfortunately the guy who does the sweeping duties just passed around and I asked him if he cleaned the floor in that bay while the car was at service, he said, no, it was cleaned first thing in the morning. Meanwhile I called the service advisor and asked him if he can check if the sealing rings were new. He asked the technician and said yes Sir they indeed are new and by some mistake they are not able to produce either the used ones or the packets of the new ones.

I suddenly felt that I must ask the store manager if such parts were issued against my car, and to my surprise, they did not have any inventory of those parts for and no demand was made for those spares. Damage (on the service centre's part) was done now, the throttle body was assembled with old sealing rings and I asked for a complete check of the vehicle to confirm if all the parts as mentioned in the service report were changed, assistant manager (service) was asked to explain the fiasco, the technician could not dare to look into my eyes and avoided talking to me.

Assistant manager service tried to explain the procedure how the parts were invoiced to the customer and how they at their level and how MSIL prevents such malpractices. But the trust was breached, I simply asked what if some parts were issued but not fitted on the car, a layman would hardly ask for any checks, specially when a car is being serviced at a dealer service centre. I settled the final bill sans the spares for throttle body, but I did pay the labour charged for that.

I did show my displeasure, took the delivery and went back home.

A week or more later there was a feed back call and I rated poor, the lady disconnected the phone unceremoniously. Another major blunder. I immediately registered an online complaint and got the complaint registration number. The very next working day I received a call from a customer relation executive from Fortpoint, to address the issue. The guy had no idea what the issue was and obviously he didn't have any answers to my questions.

I used the first escalation matrix, to find a resolution the issue. About 2-3 days later I received a call from the GM (service) of Fortpoint, I asked for the explanation and this is how the conversation goes:

Me : Sir, why did this happen? Why the technician has to lie to the customer and what was his motive?
GM : It was a mistake sir.

Me : What about the service advisor, even he did not even once doubt the technician, and stuck with what the technician was saying.
GM : Sir actually the throttle body does not have any serviceable parts, (what he meant was it was available as a complete unit and at the time of cleaning the parts are not to be replaced). There is a service letter (SL) issued by MSIL (in the year 2012) regarding the same and is applicable to a batch of cars made after 2011, the second generation Swift (petrol).

ME : Is that so? Then why did the service advisor was not aware about this, as he quoted a price for those parts.
GM : He is new here and may be the training was not given.

ME : What about the Asst. Manager (Service), even he did not mention any such thing to me.
GM : "Quiet"

ME : Okay what can you do to avoid this from happening in future, not only with this particular case, but other critical components like brakes, steering, engine internals, clutch assembly etc. Can you please show me a copy of the service letter (SL) for my satisfaction?
GM : Sir, we will provide training and update the service advisors and technicians. Regarding the SL, I will send you a copy.

ME : Please send all the details of our conversation in a mail along with a copy of the service letter.
GM : OK sir.

Even after a few days when I did not receive a mail I raised the complaint to next level (Final escalation) through escalation matrix. I received a call from the regional manager (service) of MSIL and was assured a copy of the SL as stated by the Fortpoint GM (Service). He did agree that such service letter does exist but could not explain the lack of compliance even after 5 years from the date of issue. As I was going for my next assignment I told him that further communication will only be through mails and I will not be reachable on my phone.

Nothing much happened after that. A mail was shot to the regional service manager and he replied that they can't share internal information so a service letter cannot be shared. I did ask him as why did they promise for that initially, for which he did not have a reply.

Fortpoint Automotive Ltd. did try to bribe me by offering a refund of the amount charged for servicing the throttle body, and a waiver of labour charges for next service. The regional service manager stopped replying to mails further. After coming back home I have started the process once again, by registering another complaint as the issue could not be resolved even after 4-5 months. I am yet to see a service letter which says that the seal rings of the throttle body of swift petrol are no available separately.

MSIL and MASS have failed to understand that I am trying to address a bigger issue rather than personal gains, which is really surprising. At the time of writing this post, I have received the following mail form regional service manager.

"Dear Mr. ------,

Greetings from Maruti Suzuki India Ltd!!!

This is in reference to your following feedback shared for your Swift ZXi vehicle. Your feedback is registered vide interaction ID: 2020229. I have already communicated to you through earlier emails also that gasket is not serviced separately but along with the throttle body – as a complete unit.

But you be rest assured that we have verified from our concerned department that gasket is not serviceable part but it comes along with throttle body as a complete unit.

Vehicle re-inspection can again be done by the technical team of Fortpoint Group and accordingly assurance will be given by them to you.

Mr. ----------------- (-----------) – VP Service Fortpoint Automotive will assist you further for the same.

Assuring you of our best service always!

Regards,
----------------"

I have replied, that I want to see the service letter and any assurance in any other form is not acceptable to me.

Please suggest what course of action should I take further. I do not have any contact details higher up in the hierarchy of MSIL, and I some how feel that the issue is being covered up by the MASS and MSIL regional office.

Attached are the copies of the job card and invoice. I know there are many customers in the country who must have done this service in the last five years and paid for the labour and spares, though no spares were changed.
All the members in the community who own a Suzuki Swift (petrol) are requested to check and confirm if their cars belong to that category.

The issue is still not resolved and I'll try and keep posting the updates if any.

Just imagine, as per the mysterious service letter which I have not yet seen, MSIL wants us to replace the full throttle body in case the sealing rings or the gaskets start leaking, because these spares are not available separately.

Regarding to which cars this service letter is related to is something doubtful, as there were different versions, sometimes they said it was applicable to only a batch of cars and at other times they said that it was applicable to all the second generation swift petrol cars.

Isn't it really surprising that even after 5 years if issuance of this so called service letter, the maintenance routine was still being carried out, and how many of such other service letters exist which have gone unnoticed/ignored by the MASS. Some of them might be related to critical components.

I'm not happy with the way the issue has been handled by MASS and MSIL, and folks at home are not happy that I have taken things so far (devoting my time and efforts)

Thanks for reading.

Regards.

Ajay

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Dealerships Section. Thanks for sharing!

Now you know why I call them stealerships. Caveat emptor, car owners!

[gpa]

Thank you, for sharing this Brumby.

I am not sure if you are aware but this is (now) a common scam in some M.A.S.S. A similar thing happened to me as well when I took the Alto for a routine 75k kms service in Dec 2015 to an outlet of Mandovi Motors. An unscrupulous Service Advisor charged me to throttle body cleaning when it wasn't done. The worst part was I always give a printed copy of the demanded work on an A4 sheet and since the throttle body was cleaned at the 70k kms service I had not asked for it to be done this time. He also charged me for fan blower cleaning and body washing - an excess labor amount of about INR 2000 IIRC.

Since I always spend time next to my car when it is being service, I knew for sure that none of these things were done. The throttle body was definitely not cleaned and neither was the blower. I blew my fuse at this fellow and escalated it to the Works Manager of the service station. I flatly refused to pay the excess amount and after some time, they agreed to remove the amount from the bill and I paid the balance amount. I was utterly disgusted with this and have never gone back to that M.A.S.S again.

It was surprising to see how the Works Manager handled the situation - he just told my SA that since this amount was being deducted from a system generated bill, when there is an audit at the end of the quarter, it will be his (SA's) responsibility to explain it. The teams in almost all A.S.S (Hyundai, Honda, Maruti) have sales targets to achieve when it comes to labor and parts for every month and hence many resort to unethical practices such as inflating bills, billing for parts and services not done or requested by the customer.

Points to be noted

1. Always give a written copy of what work you want carried out on your car and clearly tell your SA that if there is anything additional that needs to be done, he can call you for an approval before the work commences.
2. If time is not a constraint, try and stay in the M.A.S.S while your vehicle is being serviced - you are more likely to catch these things and you will learn a lot about your vehicle.
3. Escalate a demand for a resolution on the day itself. Do not be swayed by claims of the matter being settled over email/senior staff at a later date

.

[Sherlocked]

You said yours is a second generation Swift, i.e., post 2011 K-series. The one currently on sale in India. But I couldn't find in the invoice the word "New Swift". Well they do write it for the second generation Swift.

If it's indeed the second generation Swift then why did they put 5W30 grade oil in your car. Maruti recommends 0W20 for this K series engine. Another mistake from this particular service centre. Get this replaced as early as possible and it's better to avoid this service centre for life.

For the earlier Swifts, its 5W30 oil only. So please confirm which one is yours.

[Sankar]

Around two weeks ago I went with my cousin to the Maruti dealer service center nearby (Popular Maruti) to get a brake issue checked out which turned out to be a serious one. The handbrake light on the dashboard was lit up and it was due to a leaking brake master cylinder and booster assembly. Vehicle in question is a 1st Gen 2010 K-Series petrol Swift, run around 42000KM.

I asked if they have the part in stock and they said they don't know they have to first get the vehicle in and remove the brake booster assembly and check the number on it. The SA brought the inventory guy and he repeated what was told earlier. When i asked if he can't check it in his system based on the VIN/model year number he gave lame excuse. In total they said it will take 5 to 6 days for the part to reach them once they place the order. So one week without car.

We decided not to leave the car there, got the brake fluid topped up and went to the MGP distributor (which is run by the same group as the dealer we visited) main warehouse and from there they checked their computer and found that one piece was available at one their retail outlets. Soon we went there and picked up the brake booster with master cylinder assembly which cost us a shade under Rs.4000/-

If the parts guy had checked this in his system he could have saved us the trip and we could have given the car in for repair then and there. The MGP inventory is central and it shows stock details across dealers and MGP stores.

Cousin returned to the service center next day with the brake booster and they took in the vehicle repaired it and gave it back one day after. When he went to collect the car it was in a very shabby condition with grease marks all over the fender (its a white car) and a dirty cotton waste ball on the drivers seat. Apart from cleanliness issues there was a new sound from the suspension when going over bad roads. Pathetic to say the least.

He raised a complaint when he got the feedback call. All they care about is the rating you give them. Second the service center was like a fish market with people hollering here and there. There was a guy with his WagonR with the front driver side door banged in and he said it happened during the period the car was in for service. I don't know the facts but my ex-car has collected scratches at the very same service center.

[akshay380]

One of the reasons I started below thread.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-drop-off.html

[narayan]

So quite a lot of issues now being reported on M.A.S.S. What was once touted to be a tightly run shot by Maruti seems to be creaking under the weight of the rapid rise in car sales which "probably" has not been matched with requisite number of well trained service center staff or maybe in its desperation to grown its network, Maruti has failed to do the necessary due diligence or periodical audits.

Makes one wonder if this should be highlighted going forward in official reviews as well.

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Dealerships Section. Thanks for sharing!

Now you know why I call them stealerships. Caveat emptor, car owners!

, I always thought there was a some peace of mind going to the so called Authorised Service Centres, but this incident is really annoying, they always charge more and they even started stealing, what if they do this with critical components, in-fact all the components on an automobile are critical.

Originally Posted by gpa

Thank you, for sharing this Brumby.

I am not sure if you are aware but this is (now) a common scam in some M.A.S.S. A similar thing happened to me as well when I took the Alto for a routine 75k kms service in Dec 2015 to an outlet of Mandovi Motors. An unscrupulous Service Advisor charged me to throttle body cleaning when it wasn't done. The worst part was I always give a printed copy of the demanded work on an A4 sheet and since the throttle body was cleaned at the 70k kms service I had not asked for it to be done this time. He also charged me for fan blower cleaning and body washing - an excess labor amount of about INR 2000 IIRC.

Since I always spend time next to my car when it is being service, I knew for sure that none of these things were done. The throttle body was definitely not cleaned and neither was the blower. I blew my fuse at this fellow and escalated it to the Works Manager of the service station. I flatly refused to pay the excess amount and after some time, they agreed to remove the amount from the bill and I paid the balance amount. I was utterly disgusted with this and have never gone back to that M.A.S.S again.

It was surprising to see how the Works Manager handled the situation - he just told my SA that since this amount was being deducted from a system generated bill, when there is an audit at the end of the quarter, it will be his (SA's) responsibility to explain it. The teams in almost all A.S.S (Hyundai, Honda, Maruti) have sales targets to achieve when it comes to labor and parts for every month and hence many resort to unethical practices such as inflating bills, billing for parts and services not done or requested by the customer.

Points to be noted

1. Always give a written copy of what work you want carried out on your car and clearly tell your SA that if there is anything additional that needs to be done, he can call you for an approval before the work commences.
2. If time is not a constraint, try and stay in the M.A.S.S while your vehicle is being serviced - you are more likely to catch these things and you will learn a lot about your vehicle.
3. Escalate a demand for a resolution on the day itself. Do not be swayed by claims of the matter being settled over email/senior staff at a later date

.

I understand if the service centres cheat, but even the MSIL regional service manager is hand in glove with the MASS. I'm sure it is a cover up, that's why they have refused to share a copy of the service letter, I think it doesn't even exist. Imagine changing the whole throttle body because one of the seals is leaking,

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

You said yours is a second generation Swift, i.e., post 2011 K-series. The one currently on sale in India. But I couldn't find in the invoice the word "New Swift". Well they do write it for the second generation Swift.

If it's indeed the second generation Swift then why did they put 5W30 grade oil in your car. Maruti recommends 0W20 for this K series engine. Another mistake from this particular service centre. Get this replaced as early as possible and it's better to avoid this service centre for life.

For the earlier Swifts, its 5W30 oil only. So please confirm which one is yours.

It indeed is a second generation swift, manufacturing date is 03/2012. The manual says the grade of oil is SG+5W30. May be there is another service letter regarding that, and no one knows about this LOL.

Originally Posted by Sankar

Around two weeks ago I went with my cousin to the Maruti dealer service center nearby (Popular Maruti) to get a brake issue checked out which turned out to be a serious one. The handbrake light on the dashboard was lit up and it was due to a leaking brake master cylinder and booster assembly. Vehicle in question is a 1st Gen 2010 K-Series petrol Swift, run around 42000KM.

I asked if they have the part in stock and they said they don't know they have to first get the vehicle in and remove the brake booster assembly and check the number on it. The SA brought the inventory guy and he repeated what was told earlier. When i asked if he can't check it in his system based on the VIN/model year number he gave lame excuse. In total they said it will take 5 to 6 days for the part to reach them once they place the order. So one week without car.

We decided not to leave the car there, got the brake fluid topped up and went to the MGP distributor (which is run by the same group as the dealer we visited) main warehouse and from there they checked their computer and found that one piece was available at one their retail outlets. Soon we went there and picked up the brake booster with master cylinder assembly which cost us a shade under Rs.4000/-

If the parts guy had checked this in his system he could have saved us the trip and we could have given the car in for repair then and there. The MGP inventory is central and it shows stock details across dealers and MGP stores.

Cousin returned to the service center next day with the brake booster and they took in the vehicle repaired it and gave it back one day after. When he went to collect the car it was in a very shabby condition with grease marks all over the fender (its a white car) and a dirty cotton waste ball on the drivers seat. Apart from cleanliness issues there was a new sound from the suspension when going over bad roads. Pathetic to say the least.

He raised a complaint when he got the feedback call. All they care about is the rating you give them. Second the service center was like a fish market with people hollering here and there. There was a guy with his WagonR with the front driver side door banged in and he said it happened during the period the car was in for service. I don't know the facts but my ex-car has collected scratches at the very same service center.

The deputy manager (service) explained the whole process of inventory and how MSIL tries to prevent such malpractices, he did mention that the inventory is centralised and we can see which part is available at which location. Really surprising that in your case they blindly said the part was not available, they were not interested it seems. My experience at MASS is that once the warranty of the vehicle is over, the service centres seem to loose interest in the upkeep of your vehicle. In-fact the other major MASS in our area, Navnit motors once caused fire in the engine bay of my M800 right in front of my eyes, that too when I told the technician that his actions were too dangerous and may result in fire. The MASS made me sell that car (my first one, a 5-speed mpfi) as time and again after every service, it used to have issues which never existed at the time of giving the vehicle for service.

[Sherlocked]

Originally Posted by Brumby

It indeed is a second generation swift, manufacturing date is 03/2012. The manual says the grade of oil is SG+5W30.

For petrol it's 0W20 whereas 5W30 is for the diesel.

From the owners manual of Swift available on MS website:(NOTE: Open attachment in new link to make it more readable.)

Running your engine on wrong grade of oil is more harmful in long term for your car than say having pulled a fast one in the name of some throttle body components. You should bring this to the attention of MS asap and get it replaced.

You may refer to this thread for more details. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ti-suzuki.html

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Brumby

It indeed is a second generation swift, manufacturing date is 03/2012. The manual says the grade of oil is SG+5W30.

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

For petrol it's 0W20 whereas 5W30 is for the diesel.

For the 1st iteration of the 2nd gen Swift, Maruti did recommend 5W30 oil for gasoline engines. It was only after the facelift(when it got push button start etc) Maruti moved to 0W20 for the petrol Swift. The owners manual on the MSIL webpage is the latest one.

Follow your owner's manual. Don't believe in any letter or wordings from MSIL.

Regards,
Shashi

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Brumby

Damage (on the service centre's part) was done now, the throttle body was assembled with old sealing rings.


GM : Sir actually the throttle body does not have any serviceable parts, (what he meant was it was available as a complete unit and at the time of cleaning the parts are not to be replaced). There is a service letter (SL) issued by MSIL (in the year 2012) regarding the same and is applicable to a batch of cars made after 2011, the second generation Swift (petrol).

I presume this is the gasket in between the throttle body and the intake manifold??! Right?

I just checked the parts catalogue and the Service Manual that I have of the Swift (I own a Swift ZDi, 2013 model). Here are the images of the throttle body/Intake manifold related (from service manual):

No. "6" which is the throttle body gasket and labelled with a X meaning NOT to be re-used



'1' as seen marked in the image of the gasket.

The ASC should have ideally changed it when it was opened for cleaning etc just before reinstallation. It has a specific part number so it can be purchased and replaced.



Part Name: Gasket, Throttle Body
Part Number: 13421M73K00
Approx Price: ₹113 (Edited post Leoshashi Sir's price correction)

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Part Name: Gasket, Throttle Body
Part Number: 13421M73K00
Approx Price: ₹135

Thanks for this immensely useful info.

Just a minor correction. The MRP is Rs. 113/- per unit.

Regards,
Shashi

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

For petrol it's 0W20 whereas 5W30 is for the diesel.

From the owners manual of Swift available on MS website:(NOTE: Open attachment in new link to make it more readable.)Attachment 1669200

Running your engine on wrong grade of oil is more harmful in long term for your car than say having pulled a fast one in the name of some throttle body components. You should bring this to the attention of MS asap and get it replaced.

You may refer to this thread for more details. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ti-suzuki.html

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

For the 1st iteration of the 2nd gen Swift, Maruti did recommend 5W30 oil for gasoline engines. It was only after the facelift(when it got push button start etc) Maruti moved to 0W20 for the petrol Swift. The owners manual on the MSIL webpage is the latest one.

Follow your owner's manual. Don't believe in any letter or wordings from MSIL.

Regards,
Shashi

The owner's manual does mention 5W30 as the engine oil, now I am a bit confused, hope MSIL did not supply the wrong manual to the initial batch of the 2nd generation swift owners. Could you please confirm as to which oil should be used?

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I presume this is the gasket in between the throttle body and the intake manifold??! Right?

I just checked the parts catalogue and the Service Manual that I have of the Swift (I own a Swift ZDi, 2013 model). Here are the images of the throttle body/Intake manifold related (from service manual):

No. "6" which is the throttle body gasket and labelled with a X meaning NOT to be re-used
Attachment 1669230

Attachment 1669231
'1' as seen marked in the image of the gasket.

The ASC should have ideally changed it when it was opened for cleaning etc just before reinstallation. It has a specific part number so it can be purchased and replaced.

Attachment 1669229

Part Name: Gasket, Throttle Body
Part Number: 13421M73K00
Approx Price: ₹113 (Edited post Leoshashi Sir's price correction)

I agree to that, and there is one more seal ring which is there between the main body (throttle body) and the part that comes out once bolt 4 and nut 3 (Fig. 21) are removed.

Now the question here is what should I do? There are many customers who are being cheated everyday and MSIL rather than acknowledging that, is trying to cover up. Should I continue to follow up or just give up and let it be.
Is there anyone here in the forum who has information to contact higher authorities in MSIL and take up the issue with them?

This incident is just a reference and I was thinking as to how to address the issue of cheating by the MASS and avoid it in future for all the customers. I can very well take care of how my car is being serviced by being present there while the technicians work in the service bay.

Thank you everyone for the information and support.

Regards.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Brumby

The owner's manual does mention 5W30 as the engine oil, now I am a bit confused, hope MSIL did not supply the wrong manual to the initial batch of the 2nd generation swift owners. Could you please confirm as to which oil should be used?

Stick to 5w30. That's what needs to go in your car. Maruti did some changes to the engine of the car before they moved to 0w20 grade. Those changes were done in 2014 IIRC, so all Swifts before that should get 5W30 only.

I have mentioned in my post here about the changes that MSIL did before shifting to 0W20. Now obviously since your car doesn't have those changes, you should stick to 5w30.

Regards,
Shashi

[Sherlocked]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

For the 1st iteration of the 2nd gen Swift, Maruti did recommend 5W30 oil for gasoline engines. It was only after the facelift(when it got push button start etc) Maruti moved to 0W20 for the petrol Swift. The owners manual on the MSIL webpage is the latest one.

Follow your owner's manual. Don't believe in any letter or wordings from MSIL.

OT: But isn't this whole thing confusing, how can they overnight change the grade of oil for their engine. My 2014 Swift is before the facelift where they added the start/stop button and made some changes to the engine.
MASS always used 0W20 oil for my engine. I will check the manual which came with the car by evening and see what it states.

Similar thing they had done with the gear box oil change for F10D WagonR. Earlier interval IIRC was 20k kms and then suddenly they changed it to 40k kms.