[rana_kirti]

i recently got a Panasonic 4 star inverter ac with 0.1 filter. if it is run in air mode, would it be equivalent to a good quality Air Purifier ?

[PPS]

Recently gifted my in-laws Voltas 1 ton 3 star AC from Vijay Sales. Costed 29k + 2.6k for installation.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by MMV

Hi All,Need inputs/advice on whether to go for 4 different ACs (hall and bedroom) or go with VRV/VRF system.

I have no personal user experience with VRF based units.

From what I understand of the tech, its more the logistics being made simpler compared to older ducted units (not to forget efficiency). You'll have one outdoor unit on the outside which connects to multiple split indoor units and a micro processor control to control each zone. Its pretty neat. However, you need to check the size of the outdoor unit as a 6T unit is going to be large. Does any outdoor section of your apartment allow for installing such equipment? If you're on the ground floor, maybe yes. If you're on the top most floor, yes again cause you have access to a terrace. You need to factor noise levels too. If on full load, those outdoor units are going to make a racket, your neighbors are going to protest for sure. Nowadays manufacturers publish noise levels even for the outdoor unit so take a look at that.

Its definitely the way to go, if you can afford a VRF unit. That said, if you are not going to be using the non primary aircon units a whole lot, your Technicians advice to stick to regular splits represents more value.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by MMV

Hi All,

Need inputs/advice on whether to go for 4 different ACs (hall and bedroom) or go with VRV/VRF system. I am contemplating both options with long term (at least 10 years) horizon, requirement is of at least 6T (2+1.5+1.5+1) over the apartment. An AC mechanic told me that if you buy the best star rated split ACs (4 in my case) it will give same performance and economy (read electricity consumption )of a VRV / VRF at half the cost. Would need to understand what’s the experience with VRV/VRF ACs for home and does it give better savings over a 5year period (considering initial costs and running costs) in a residential apartment with normal usage (nil/limited day time use except during summers and night time usage of only 2 ACs regularly).

There are a few things that you need to know about VRF.

. VRF AC's are built to Industrial grade and not consumer grade. Hence they cost at least twice per ton compared to normal AC's.

. VRF last a lot longer than normal AC's. At least 10 to 20 years compared to 5 to 10 for normal split AC's. (That is not to say that normal AC';s do not last, but normally the modern Inverter AC's last a lot less than the older all mechanical units).

. AMC for VRF unit is commensurate with their purchase price, that is at least two and at times three times that of normal domestic split units of the same tonnage. Being more complex, these units need company service personell, normal AC mechanics will not do.

. VRF units make sence if at least 50% of the capacity is used at any given time. If not (say 1 out of 4 normal AC), then they will consume more power.

So if you have space for 4 outdoor units, and your usage is intermittent, then I suggest that you go for individual split units, rather than a VRF unit. The AMC of these 4 units will be at the most 4x4 = 16 thousand, while for a 6 ton VRF it will be more than 40 thousand.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

i recently got a Panasonic 4 star inverter ac with 0.1 filter. if it is run in air mode, would it be equivalent to a good quality Air Purifier ?

No. Filters on ACs are a complete gimmick. They do absolutely nothing.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

No. Filters on ACs are a complete gimmick. They do absolutely nothing.

I wonder how you arrived at the conclusion that they do absolutely nothing.

Have you ever cleaned the AC filters in your Home and car? If you have, you won't be writing that line above.

While they do not filter to the level of a dedicated air purifier, they do capture dust thats floating in the air. Dust that will otherwise end up in your respiratory system. Which is why they say to clean the filters out every month or depending on use, the ensure optimum performance of your home air conditioner.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

i recently got a Panasonic 4 star inverter ac with 0.1 filter. if it is run in air mode, would it be equivalent to a good quality Air Purifier ?

In theory - Yes. But why would anyone in the right mind use a 45k Air-conditioner to filter the air when a 4.5k specialist air filter would do the job ?
The cost of the indoor fan motor of the AC would be about 3.5k in many units. The control unit board would be about Rs.5k.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Prowler

But why would anyone in the right mind use a 45k Air-conditioner to filter the air when a 4.5k specialist air filter would do the job ?

Because they have the AC anyway. And wonder if they would benefit from an additional air purifier.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I wonder how you arrived at the conclusion that they do absolutely nothing. Have you ever cleaned the AC filters in your Home and car? If you have, you won't be writing that line above. While they do not filter to the level of a dedicated air purifier, they do capture dust thats floating in the air. Dust that will otherwise end up in your respiratory system. Which is why they say to clean the filters out every month or depending on use, the ensure optimum performance of your home air conditioner.

You are confusing accumulation of dust with pm2.5 and pm10 filtration. I wasn’t talking about car filters as some have pm filtration via HEPA filters and they do work well. I was talking about air filtration by home ACs. The filters on them, where you see the dust, are meant to protect the coils from getting dusty and not to purify the room. Some AC add what they claim are air purification filters but if you look at them, their size is so tiny that they would have absolutely no affect at all. You need a dedicated air purifier if the intention is to clean the air. I have several air quality monitors and I can assure you that no AC will reduce the pm levels by even 10%.
Don’t believe me? Check out the size of the pm2.5 filter on the Panasonic AC and compare it with the filter in the Xiaomi air purifier in the attached images and decide for yourself.

Originally Posted by Prowler

In theory - Yes. But why would anyone in the right mind use a 45k Air-conditioner to filter the air when a 4.5k specialist air filter would do the job ?The cost of the indoor fan motor of the AC would be about 3.5k in many units. The control unit board would be about Rs.5k.

Please review the images.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Because they have the AC anyway. And wonder if they would benefit from an additional air purifier.

They definitely would as the AC purifier is completely useless.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Check out the size of the pm2.5 filter on the Panasonic AC and compare it with the filter in the Xiaomi air purifier in the attached images and decide for yourself.

Yes. I have a Philips air purifier. There are three levels of filtration, of which even the outer one is finer than the average AC filter. All of the air drawn in passes through these filters. I too have never been able to see any point in the tiny add-on sponge-like pads for AC machines.

On the basis that every little might help, I have, back at a time when I was suffering from a long period of eye allergy, also added an extra, third-party, filter to an AC. This added an extra layer to the entire AC filter. Hard to say if it did anything useful, but I wouldn't recommend it. I'd recommend buying a proper dedicated air purifier.

[HereticHermit]

2.5 pm filters are a joke on customers expense. That tiny strip does next to nothing. Even big names like daikin and Mitsubishi are serving this fallacy.
Another technology by name of nano g or positive ion or plasma whatever is actually a set of two small metal pins and it doesn't do anything owing to size limitation.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

The filters on them, where you see the dust, are meant to protect the coils from getting dusty and not to purify the room. Some AC add what they claim are air purification filters but if you look at them, their size is so tiny that they would have absolutely no affect at all. You need a dedicated air purifier if the intention is to clean the air. I have several air quality monitors and I can assure you that no AC will reduce the pm levels by even 10%.

Yes, it was quite evident you were referring to particulate matter.

The Mitsubishi split that I use has those exact PM filters you've shown in the illustration. I think a lot of Aircon units do these days. To say they do absolutely nothing isn't correct. They do filter, clean the air, to an extent. The manufacturer has not written anywhere nor do they market or claim the product as an air purifier in any sense of it. Depending on where you live, both need to be present and work in tandem. I have found a huge difference in dust control running an aircon alone versus not having one at all. Will it save you from a severe respiratory condition? No. However, those dust filters do capture a lot of dust and thats plenty enough for me. Your situation or for some others here, maybe different, where the standard air filter on a aircon unit is insufficient. I won't say they are a gimmick.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Because they have the AC anyway. And wonder if they would benefit from an additional air purifier.

The FM who posted the query, based on their Location, I assume there is a need for it. Nothing new for folks in the Delhi region.

[curiousElf]

Planning to get a 2 ton split for my living room (~220 sq.ft). After reading about the scores of poor quality installations - I am thinking that I should just buy the AC online and get it fit by a dedicated HVAC professional as the installation might be tricky
a. Is this even needed? Are brand installations done by trained and experienced manpower ?
b. Does anyone have references of reliable HVAC professionals in Bangalore (Indiranagar area)

[SedateGuy]

Originally Posted by curiousElf

Planning to get a 2 ton split for my living room (~220 sq.ft). After reading about the scores of poor quality installations - I am thinking that I should just buy the AC online and get it fit by a dedicated HVAC professional as the installation might be tricky
a. Is this even needed? Are brand installations done by trained and experienced manpower ?
b. Does anyone have references of reliable HVAC professionals in Bangalore (Indiranagar area)

Installation done by non authorised personnel will affect your warranty. Check for this before you go ahead.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by curiousElf

Planning to get a 2 ton split for my living room (~220 sq.ft). After reading about the scores of poor quality installations - I am thinking that I should just buy the AC online and get it fit by a dedicated HVAC professional as the installation might be tricky
a. Is this even needed? Are brand installations done by trained and experienced manpower ?
b. Does anyone have references of reliable HVAC professionals in Bangalore (Indiranagar area)

I have installed a number of LG split AC's in the past 6 years. All installations were flawlessly done by LG installation Team (they are different from the service teams). There are a few things that you have to ensure
. Let them use a large bore masonry drill - 67mm or more, rather than hammer and chisle. That will leave a neat hole without needing further repairs.
. After the installation, ask them to fill the hole with plaster/cement and flush both the ends.
. Definitely insist on vaccuming the lines before they release the gas from the ODU. That will ensure minimum moisture and at times detect small leaks in the piping.