[Doge]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

You seem to have read the General warranty for their inverter ACs, i.e. 1 year on the whole unit and 10 years on the compressor. On the fixed speed models General gives the same warranty as others, i.e. 1 year comprehensive and 5 years on the compressor.

Hi, yes that seems to be it, but I was not looking for General for the warranty, more for the reputation and durability to last long, like my National's.
The sweet deal seems to be the Haier though, 5 year comprehensive warranty and 30k for the window and 38k for the split, all fixed speed too.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Doge

Hi, yes that seems to be it, but I was not looking for General for the warranty, more for the reputation and durability to last long, like my National's.
....

I have a National 1½ ton window unit that has been doing duty for 22 years. A Hitachi window unit has completed 21 years. An LG 2 ton split and a 1½ ton window have done 18 years. Only the LG window unit had a compressor change at 5 years; done free of cost by LG. The compressor blew due to the stabilizer sending 320 Volts due to a stuck relay.
There is a 1 ton Whirlpool window unit that has served for 16 years and still going strong.
My experience with fixed speed machines has been excellent.
I have very recently bought a General 2 ton split fixed speed unit.

[directinjection]

I have recently constructed a 4 bedroom house in Faridabad, Haryana, after demolishing the old one that was built in 1977. I have a requirement for 3 two tonne split ACs for 3 bedrooms whose size is roughly 17 feet by 12 feet. For the drawing room which 18 X 13, I require a standing unit as the copper pipe is affixed inside the wall at a low height. I had got the copper piping done while the house was under construction. In the drawing room, the AC technician was unable to affix the copper pipe at the usual height due to the presence of the lintel band running across the brick masonry wall.

At present, I have two fairly new inverter ACs - one a two tonne split unit of Blue Star make and another a 1.5 tonne window AC of Voltas make. My experience with both these ACs hasn't been happy - the cooling is below par. Also, the Blue Star one had suffered a break down immediately after the warranty was over and the ODU fan motor cost over 7000 bucks to replace!

I'm therefore looking for non-inverter ACs. Would Hitachi Takeshi 2 tonne split be a good choice for the bedrooms? Takeshi is Hitachi's heavy-duty range that's supposed to cool faster and better. What are the other alternatives worth looking at? I prefer Indian made products.

For the drawing room (which is 18 X 13 but whose roof is not exposed to sun 90% of the time), would a 2 tonne AC be sufficient? My choice for the drawing room is limited by the fact that I can only install a floor standing unit. Daikin have a floor standing 2.4 tonne non-inverter model but I don't know where it is made and how good it is; I'm yet to visit their showroom. Blue Star and Voltas both were offering 2 tonne non-inverter floor standing models till last year. These were fully Made in China machines. However, their websites aren't showing them now and I'm not sure if these are still available.

Would be grateful if experienced members could provide some guidance!

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by directinjection

I have recently constructed a 4 bedroom house in Faridabad, Haryana, after demolishing the old one that was built in 1977. I have a requirement for 3 two tonne split ACs for 3 bedrooms whose size is roughly 17 feet by 12 feet. For the drawing room which 18 X 13, I require a standing unit as the copper pipe is affixed inside the wall at a low height. I had got the copper piping done while the house was under construction. In the drawing room, the AC technician was unable to affix the copper pipe at the usual height due to the presence of the lintel band running across the brick masonry wall.

At present, I have two fairly new inverter ACs - one a two tonne split unit of Blue Star make and another a 1.5 tonne window AC of Voltas make. My experience with both these ACs hasn't been happy - the cooling is below par. Also, the Blue Star one had suffered a break down immediately after the warranty was over and the ODU fan motor cost over 7000 bucks to replace!

I'm therefore looking for non-inverter ACs. Would Hitachi Takeshi 2 tonne split be a good choice for the bedrooms? Takeshi is Hitachi's heavy-duty range that's supposed to cool faster and better. What are the other alternatives worth looking at? I prefer Indian made products.

For the drawing room (which is 18 X 13 but whose roof is not exposed to sun 90% of the time), would a 2 tonne AC be sufficient? My choice for the drawing room is limited by the fact that I can only install a floor standing unit. Daikin have a floor standing 2.4 tonne non-inverter model but I don't know where it is made and how good it is; I'm yet to visit their showroom. Blue Star and Voltas both were offering 2 tonne non-inverter floor standing models till last year. These were fully Made in China machines. However, their websites aren't showing them now and I'm not sure if these are still available.

Would be grateful if experienced members could provide some guidance!

Faridabad should be getting as hot as Delhi, if not more. So you need more cooling power when the temperture hits 40+ during day and 30+ at night.

First thing that you should be aware of is that all the current AC's have a lot of electronics in them so the probability of the MB packing up is same whether it is Inverter or fixed speed.

Second thing to note is that Delhi get pretty cold in Winters, so if you use room heaters, then a "Hot and Cold" AC makes more sense, as the power consumption of an Inverter Heat pump is much less than a heater.

Third thing is that no matter how good the AC is, it will require repairs at some point of time. So go for those brands that have an excellent after sales service and a good extended warranty.

In the last 30 tears I have had AC's that were assembled as well as from Samsung, Hitachi and Daikin. All of them required repairs at some time or other. Whether it is local mechanic or the company engineer, they are similar in their approach and it is a gamble. On top of that parts are replaced frequently and of course "gas Charging" scam is there.

After doing a lot of research both on line and feed back from customers, I selected LG Inverter in 2018. Since then I have slowly replaced the other brrands and now I have 5 LG Inverter AC. The latest one is 2T Hot and Cold one bought this winter.

Why LG?

1. Price is competetive, in fact with CC schemes it is much lower than other major brands.

2.Service is excellent. I get 5 years extended service warranty that includes every thing - MB, Gas, Heat Exchangers plus 2 services a year. On top of that the service is top notch generally egineer arrives within a day.

3. LG AC and WM are made in India, and the part cost are much lower than competetion (for example the AC MB is around 6K while the Daikin one was 14K and then went up to 25K during covid). So even if you do not have extended warranty, parts are reasonable and so is service costs.

Coming to sizing here is a thumb rule that has been verified by me :

. 1T per 1000 cu.f of space or 110 sq.f for 9 foot ceiling.

. 1T for every 4 persons in the room.

. 1T for every 3KW of electricity consumed in the room (TV, fan, laptop etc)

These are cumulative, that is you have to add up these - area, people and electrical load to arrive at total tonnage.

1.5T is fine for a 110 sq.f bedroom room.

2T for 180 to 240 sq.f room

For drawing room of 15' x 20' a 2T is barely enough but if you have 10 or more guests then another 2T will make the room more comfortable.

If you plan to have more guests then look for 4T or larger package units with ceiling mounted IDU's.

[directinjection]

Thank you sir for your valuable inputs!

Some follow up questions/comments:

Originally Posted by Aroy

First thing that you should be aware of is that all the current AC's have a lot of electronics in them so the probability of the MB packing up is same whether it is Inverter or fixed speed.

I'm given to understand that inverter ones use more electronics than non inverter ones, relatively speaking. I heard someone say that an inverter AC has two PCBs while a non-inverter one uses only one. I'm not a big fan of electronics merging into what are otherwise mechanical/electrical devices.

Originally Posted by Aroy

Second thing to note is that Delhi get pretty cold in Winters, so if you use room heaters, then a "Hot and Cold" AC makes more sense, as the power consumption of an Inverter Heat pump is much less than a heater.

I don't use the heater much in winter. Precisely from the viewpoint of power consumption, I use a light heater with 2 coils of 400W each and usually keep the setting at one coil only. So I don't really require an AC with heater.

Originally Posted by Aroy

Third thing is that no matter how good the AC is, it will require repairs at some point of time. So go for those brands that have an excellent after sales service and a good extended warranty.

My first AC was an Electrolux 1.5T window model that used a Hitachi compressor. It cooled really well and lasted 16 years with minimal repairs/service! In 2020, I purchased a Blue Star 2T inverter split. It broke down in 2021, just after the warranty was over! Fault was identified only after 2-3 visits by the authorized service centre technician. DC motor of the ODU had to be changed and costed over Rs. 7000! After that, it worked fine but in 2022 summer, once the temperature crossed 40 degrees, we found the cooling inadequate. Servicing and cleaning helped but not too much.

In 2021, I purchased a Voltas 1.5T inverter window AC. I have had issues with it. It doesn't cool the room effectively even after servicing and cleaning but the technicians (authorized ones as well as local) say that it is working fine.

As a result of my experience with both types of ACs, I have become quite vary of inverter ACs and am highly reluctant to opt for them given that I now need 4 new pieces! I want to play safe!

Originally Posted by Aroy

In the last 30 tears I have had AC's that were assembled as well as from Samsung, Hitachi and Daikin. All of them required repairs at some time or other. Whether it is local mechanic or the company engineer, they are similar in their approach and it is a gamble. On top of that parts are replaced frequently and of course "gas Charging" scam is there.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by Aroy

After doing a lot of research both on line and feed back from customers, I selected LG Inverter in 2018. Since then I have slowly replaced the other brrands and now I have 5 LG Inverter AC. The latest one is 2T Hot and Cold one bought this winter.

Why LG?

1. Price is competetive, in fact with CC schemes it is much lower than other major brands.

2.Service is excellent. I get 5 years extended service warranty that includes every thing - MB, Gas, Heat Exchangers plus 2 services a year. On top of that the service is top notch generally egineer arrives within a day.

3. LG AC and WM are made in India, and the part cost are much lower than competetion (for example the AC MB is around 6K while the Daikin one was 14K and then went up to 25K during covid). So even if you do not have extended warranty, parts are reasonable and so is service costs.

OK. Will check them out. LG still sells non-inverter models? Hitachi is also made in India, so I suppose their parts would be reasonably priced too. Need to research this more. Their Takeshi model is said to be quite effective in terms of cooling.

Originally Posted by Aroy

Coming to sizing here is a thumb rule that has been verified by me:

. 1T per 1000 cu.f of space or 110 sq.f for 9 foot ceiling.

. 1T for every 4 persons in the room.

. 1T for every 3KW of electricity consumed in the room (TV, fan, laptop etc)

These are cumulative, that is you have to add up these - area, people and electrical load to arrive at total tonnage.

1.5T is fine for a 110 sq.f bedroom room.

2T for 180 to 240 sq.f room

For drawing room of 15' x 20' a 2T is barely enough but if you have 10 or more guests then another 2T will make the room more comfortable.

If you plan to have more guests then look for 4T or larger package units with ceiling mounted IDU's.

Thank you for the info! The reason I'm considering Daikin is that it has a capacity of 2.4 T. I feel 2 T may prove inadequate for the living room which is 18 X 13. Also, this room can only have a floor standing unit. What other makes can I consider?

[Doge]

Originally Posted by directinjection

I have recently constructed a 4 bedroom house in Faridabad, Haryana, after demolishing the old one that was built in 1977. I have a requirement for 3 two tonne split ACs for 3 bedrooms whose size is roughly 17 feet by 12 feet. For the drawing room which 18 X 13, I require a standing unit as the copper pipe is affixed inside the wall at a low height. I had got the copper piping done while the house was under construction. In the drawing room, the AC technician was unable to affix the copper pipe at the usual height due to the presence of the lintel band running across the brick masonry wall.

At present, I have two fairly new inverter ACs - one a two tonne split unit of Blue Star make and another a 1.5 tonne window AC of Voltas make. My experience with both these ACs hasn't been happy - the cooling is below par. Also, the Blue Star one had suffered a break down immediately after the warranty was over and the ODU fan motor cost over 7000 bucks to replace!

I'm therefore looking for non-inverter ACs. Would Hitachi Takeshi 2 tonne split be a good choice for the bedrooms? Takeshi is Hitachi's heavy-duty range that's supposed to cool faster and better. What are the other alternatives worth looking at? I prefer Indian made products.

For the drawing room (which is 18 X 13 but whose roof is not exposed to sun 90% of the time), would a 2 tonne AC be sufficient? My choice for the drawing room is limited by the fact that I can only install a floor standing unit. Daikin have a floor standing 2.4 tonne non-inverter model but I don't know where it is made and how good it is; I'm yet to visit their showroom. Blue Star and Voltas both were offering 2 tonne non-inverter floor standing models till last year. These were fully Made in China machines. However, their websites aren't showing them now and I'm not sure if these are still available.

Would be grateful if experienced members could provide some guidance!

I went for a 1.6 Ton Haier fixed speed split as it had a warranty for 5 years included. The only other good option is General as fixed speed acs are quite rare now. General ones are made in Thailand. Didn’t even consider Daikin as people i know have had bad experiences with the new ones.
You could also go for LG or Panasonic inverter and extend the warranty. I just went for Haier as the warranty was free and it is non inverter.

[Aroy]

Most of the current inverter AC's have the following features, not available in fixed speed AC's

. Boost mode - the AC will cool at upto 20% more than mominal rating. This mode works for 1/2 hour at the most. So a 1.5T AC becomes 1.8T for a short while. This time is enough to bring the room temperature down by a few degrees.

. Stabilizer free. That is because the motors are all DC. The AC is converted to DC to run them. As long as the convertion electronics can withstand the voltage swing, there is no need for a stabilizer. The normal range supported is 160V to 270V. Some have a wider range some smaller.

. Yes there are two MB in the inverter AC and one in most fixed speed ones. But the fault normally occurs in the main MB in both types. So from that point of view both have similar failure rates.

The reason why "ancient" AC's have a long life is

. The fin spacing is at least twice that of a 5 star AC. That means that dust accumulation in the fins (that results in lower air flow and stressing the comressor) is non existant. So failure rate is reduced.

. The body was more robust with thicker metal sheets (check the difference in weight between a 15 year old AC and the current one).

. In really old AC's there was no electronics, only electro meckanical controls, hence lower failure.

The down side is

. that fixed speed AC consume more power

. Stress the electricals due to high starting load. For 1.5T AC it can be as high as 20A starting vs. 6-7A running. And this is every time it starts (say 5-8 times every hour). In inverter AC, power consumption ramps up slowly, that is "soft start" (in my LG 2T it starts at .2A and achieves full rating of 9A in about 5 minutes).

. Uncomfortable when the compressor stops. In contrast the Inverter AC is always on and once the set temperture is achieved it is as comfortable as a central AC.

[speed79]

Originally Posted by speed79

I am again in same situation again for the new AC. The left side of IDU opens directly in balcony, while the right side of IDU again enters bathroom. Yesterday I went to Croma, and they called up BlueStar and Bluestar support asked for hole on the right side. I am not getting any clarity on possibility of having a left side hole. I do remember one Bluestar technician who had visited for filling gas in botched-up installation and he had said that we could have done with single left side hole in wall.

Update: I downsized AC from 1.5 ton to 1.2 Ton as effective room area was about 150 sq ft. The 1.2 ton has smaller IDU which fits well, needing just one hole in one wall. I went with 3 star BlueStar 1.2 ton inverter as I already have BlueStar 1.5 ton in other room. Moreover, the 15 years old Bluestar ACs in my office (1.5 ton split and 2 ton Windows) are still working fine.

I have another query. I live in a south facing duplex house. The drawing, dining and kitchen on ground floor and the living room on 1st floor and then staircase are a single unit. It amounts to total area of about 800 - 900 sq ft. Bangalore has become too hot, and need AC as it becomes uncomfortably hot now-a-days. Earlier I had two desert air coolers (from Ram Coolers, Nagpur) for ground and 1st floor for last 8 years, which I have given away as my house had mold attack during incessant rains of October 2021. What are my options to cool this large area?

[kaak009]

We are in a market for 1.5T split preferably AC unit. We are quite suckers for value for money but dont mind paying premium for a brilliant product. In 2021 we bought a top of the line Panasonic 1 T unit and the experience is nothing short of exceptional. Brilliant cooling in a room which receives maximum sunlight. We want to go for Panasonic only for the new purchase. But any other brilliant products or brands with extreme reliability are a welcome. Only 5 star is required. Any specific brands or model suggestions are a welcome.
Regards
Kashish

[Venky03]

Purchased a 1.5 Ton 3 Star Amazonbasics Inverter AC for INR 24k in May 2019 when it was newly launched on Amazon, and a 1.5 Ton 3 Star MarQ Inverter AC for INR 22k in March 2020 when it was newly launched on Flipkart. They replaced our 14 year old 1.5 Ton Voltas window mounted ACs. The installation experience was similar for both of them with the installation guys pushing to buy their voltage stabilizers and extended warranty. Both the IDU and ODU are identical with minor design changes, they've been running smoothly for the past 3-4 years with periodic cleaning of the IDU filter and ODU fins.



Sharing an incident which happened with a friend :

Last year my friend had also purchased an Amazonbasics Inverter AC, he purchased AMC for INR 4k from the guys who came to install the unit. A year later they cleaned the IDU and ODU with jet spray after which the unit failed to start, after some troubleshooting they concluded that the unit is not starting due to low gas pressure. The unit failed to start even after the gas refill, AMC guys asked him to wait for a day and then attempt to start the AC. It failed to start the next day as well, the AMC guys visited again and mentioned that the gas pressure was 0 and he will have to refill the gas again and this time it will cost INR 3k, he declined straightaway.

He decided to call the toll free mentioned on the Amazonbasics user manual, 2 days later the guys from Amazonbasics checked his unit and concluded that the IDU mobo was dead because of liquid damage. After following up with Amazonbasics for a week they notified that the replacement part was not available and he will have to return the unit and get INR 25k in his Amazon pay wallet as a goodwill. He returned the unit and got 25k in his Amazon pay wallet. His unit was technically out of warranty as it was purchased in January 2022 and the mobo damage was reported in March 2023.

I've never used water to clean my ACs, instead clean them with blowers every 4-6 months. So a question for users who "wet-wash" their units : Have your units ever experienced water damage? And is jet spray method mandatory, won't air blower suffice if the unit is cleaned regularly?

[HereticHermit]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Thank you for the info! The reason I'm considering Daikin is that it has a capacity of 2.4 T. I feel 2 T may prove inadequate for the living room which is 18 X 13. Also, this room can only have a floor standing unit. What other makes can I consider?

For an Indian made unit, Daikins are one of better engineered units. Their fixed speed ac are still frugal than many other brands. For your 18x13 their 2.2 ton unit should be enough since Daikin outdoor units are larger and more efficient in like to like tonnage comparison with other brands.
Also with fixed speed units you might want to downsize a bit so that it runs little 'stressed' and does not allow humidity accumulation.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Venky03

So a question for users who "wet-wash" their units : Have your units ever experienced water damage? And is jet spray method mandatory, won't air blower suffice if the unit is cleaned regularly?

Mitsubishi 2,2-ton inverter machine. "Chemical wash." The indoor unit developed an annoying whine after this treatment. It is under a comprehensive AMC and the company replaced the idu fan motor. It took two weeks to source the motor from abroad, but apart from that, they replaced it willingly and with no problems.

Our other machines have also been water/chemical washed once or twice. There was just the one problem.

The actually cleaning, and its effect, seems to be much, much more effective than routine stuff. The guys themselves advised us to ask for it once a year.

[HereticHermit]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

The actually cleaning, and its effect, seems to be much, much more effective than routine stuff. The guys themselves advised us to ask for it once a year.

This is a positive note I have heard about Mitsubishi (both heavy and electric) in longest time.
100% agree with routine wash. More than soap+water+chemical wash a simple water spray wash of the heat exchanger, if done regularly, is a game changer. That's why I prefer to install a/cs where I can access the outdoor easily. As with many other things a regime of scheduled maintenance doesn't allow these machines to self destruct.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Venky03

I've never used water to clean my ACs, instead clean them with blowers every 4-6 months. So a question for users who "wet-wash" their units : Have your units ever experienced water damage? And is jet spray method mandatory, won't air blower suffice if the unit is cleaned regularly?

It all boils down to one thing: the technician who attends to the cleaning. Poorly trained poorly educated mechanics don't follow the proper procedure. You have to remove the PCB inside the IDU. Remove the BDC fan motor. Block off the electronics side with plastic shroud and duct tape. Then use the water jet to clean the innards. Then dry the interior and carefully assemble the unit making sure that water doesn't enter the electronics.

Inspite of all precaution, one day when UC chap came to water wash the IDU, he was a little careless and the display lost one digit.
Sometimes, they remove the entire IDU and clean it outside. At that time, they remove the PCB and remove the motor. Chances are if they can remove the unit properly, they may have the expertise to do things properly.

[Col Mehta]

Dear members, need help with Haier India support. Does anyone have a contact details of Haier senior management/leadership?