Team-BHP - The home / office air-conditioner thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aroy (Post 2734622)

The cheapest AC are normally 1 or 2 start, hence consume more power. I am not absolutely sure, but the power consumption for a 1.5 ton unit is
1* - 2.5kw
5* - 1.5kw
So you save 1kw per hour straight away by going from 1* to 5*. If the AC is on 12 hours a day, and the duty cycle is 50%, then you are saving 6 units/day or about 180 units/month. If the electricity is Rs.5/unit, you are saving Rs.900/month or about 5.5K in a six month season. As the cost of electricity keeps going up, you end up spending more and more on a 1* or 2* AC.

In my case the we have 3 Ac and combined run is about 30 hours/day for seven months a year, so switching to 5* from 1* saves us at lest 15 units which at the current rate approaching Rs6/unit is 90/day, a good enough reason to get a 5*. Inverter AC will same even more as the effective consumption is even lower, bordering on 50% of a normal unit over a 12 hour period.

I think this star rating is a popular misconception . First check the KW cooling capacity of the A/C . you will find that the 5 star rated A/C has a lower KW rating than a 2 star rated for a similar capacity ..i.e 1 ton or 1.5 ton . So before checking the star rating check the KW cooling capacity of the A/C and then decide . I can tell you this because a panasonic 1.5 ton rated cube has a higher KW rating than an Econ Jade . Links to tech specs are posted below ..

Panasonic Cube 1.5 Tons - CS-ZC20NKY-T Split AC: Flipkart.com

Panasonic econ Jade 1.5 Tons - CS-TC18NKY Split AC: Flipkart.com

This is the top end econ inverter model ..

Panasonic econ Inverter - Tropical 1.5 Tons - CS-K18NKY Split AC: Flipkart.com

I think the rating are primarily based on the power consumption figures for a 1.5 ton A/C (since i am comparing 3 similar 1.5 ton models ) and not rated based on the cooling capacity of the machine .EER ratings are another different set of parameters though .

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami (Post 2734460)

How are Onida A/C ?
Currently, we are having one Mitsubishi A/C installed in a 12*12 feet room on ground floor. My room is just above that, but its the first floor ( and no further floor above that ). In case of the room which has the A/C, a 1.1 ton A/c does the job super well. Moreover, the electricity consumption is also very less for such an effective A/C.
My main concern is that the first floor room get more heat and our budget this time is a bit on limited side. Max 30K, but would love to get it done if the price is less.

So I am more inclined towards Onida which offers relatively cheaper window A/C.

Also what are the other brands I must consider ?

Earlier ONIDA machines were good I believe . Actually they used to sell 1.25 ton A/C as 1 ton , but now they are not selling them anymore . Last week when i was shopping around for A/c i was surprised to find that the ONDIA split machines cost the same as a Voltas ,Samsung , LG . A few years back they were the cheapest A/C one could get . Another thing is MIRC electronics were never a stable company . They brought in so many brands and they wind up without notice . You might be comfortable with LG ,Voltas , whirlpool panasonic etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatmana2000 (Post 2735206)

I did some research last year and for the same BTU rating the LG splits exhibited different power consumption for each star rating. I later cross checked with other machines also. Though a lot of manufacturers quote the capacity of their machines in KW, HP or Ton, the proper nomenclature is the BTU (or its metric equivalent) which gives the heat transferred from one end to the other.

By the way, the star rating has nothing to do with the cooling power (Ton or BTU). It is a measure of the thermo-electrical efficiency, that is for a given heat transfer what is the electricity consumed.

From what I have observed the over all efficiency for the window AC is the lowest, while that for the high capacity chilled water plants the highest, with various types of split technology falling in between.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur (Post 2735652)

:Shockked: Where did you get this information from?
How can a 1.5 ton unit be actually a 1.8 ton unit?

If manufacturers go by 1.5 on only then the specs of the a/c across various manufacturers should be the same right ? All the a/c should consume the same power , or should have the same cooling capacity or atleast should have the same feature to brand them as 1.5 ton right ? There is nothing like that . even compressor manufacturers like emerson specify their compressors as 1.5 ton plus since the compressor has "more' cooling capacity .Best example is the Kirloskar Copeland cr22k6m-pf1 compressor . As a general rule 18,000 BTU is considered as 1.5 ton and 19,000 btu which the cube has is considered as 1.5 ton plus or in real terms 1.8 ton A/c .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aroy (Post 2736052)

I did some research last year and for the same BTU rating the LG splits exhibited different power consumption for each star rating.
====
From what I have observed the over all efficiency for the window AC is the lowest, while that for the high capacity chilled water plants the highest, with various types of split technology falling in between.

Digital scroll compressor is a much better power saver than the inverter , but sadly they are very costly .

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatmana2000 (Post 2736277)

... As a general rule 18,000 BTU is considered as 1.5 ton and 19,000 btu which the cube has is considered as 1.5 ton plus or in real terms 1.8 ton A/c .
....

If 18000 btu is 1.5 tons, then 19000 btu is 1.583, which is nearer 1.6 than 1.8 tons!
I meant to ask how you arrived at the figure of 1.8 tons. Where is the documentation or the agreement on such a standard?
Panasonic Cube ACs are rated at 19000 btu; how can these be called 1.8 ton units?

Quote:

Originally Posted by anupmathur (Post 2736566)

There is no official documentation as such ..If there was one then we would be having 1.5 ton , 1.55 ton , 1.6ton , 1.65 ton and so on .. The 18,000 btu is an assumption as such for a 1.5 ton and not strictly a norm . Even a 17,000 Btu qualifies for a 1.5 ton as well . In Chennai , any dealer will mention the cube as 1.75 ton or 1.8 ton and not as a 1.5 ton unit .

Finally bought 2 Ton split General AC, the unit cost was about 51 and another 12-14K on the installation, stand etc. Even the cost is on higher side, but the cooling is quite satisfactory and forget the ID even the OD unit is super silent.

Last summer i bought Hitachi window 1 ton and the sound levels are nothing less than IDI engines :Frustrati. Tried damping and everything in the world still the noise level of compressor is high. I went for Hitachi, with a notion that it would silent and its a Jap make.

Will be buying one more window have shortlisted General only, but the salesman told me that the General Window Ac does not have star rating, is it true?

Amit

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatmana2000 (Post 2736277)

Digital scroll compressor is a much better power saver than the inverter , but sadly they are very costly .

Of course I had limited the analysis to single phase compressors. The moment you enter the realm of 3 phase compressors, the efficiency goes up by at least 30%, simply due to the fact that the motors are more efficient.

Apart from the compressor, there is the heat exchanger efficiency. Better designs have more efficient heat exchangers, hence either consume less power (due to smaller compressors) or have higher BTU rating, for the same compressor. One fact rarely realized is that the heat exchangers in a split AC have much more area compared to the window AC, hence are more efficient. The heat exchangers of large AC plants are even more efficient, so as you go up in the capacity, the system on the whole consume less power for a given amount of cooling.

Hi All,

Am looking at buying a 1 ton AC over the weekend in Bangalore. It is going to be a split AC <Rs. 25k (lesser the better), usage is mainly for 3 months with more night-time usage & daytime usage on weekends.

As most people on this thread, I am utterly confused with brands and star ratings. From what I have gathered the price points are:

Electrolux, Lloyd : Rs. 18k to 23K (3* to 5*)

Godrej, Voltas : Rs. 20k to 24k (3* to 5*)

Whirlpool : Rs. 21 to 25k (3* to 5*)

Panasonic Samsung, LG : Rs. 22 to 28K (3* to 5*)

Some questions:
Among cheaper brands : Electrlolux, Godrej, Voltas, Lloyd, which one is good / recommended or are all avoidable.

Whirlpool and Panasonic are recommended on this forum. What are the models that I could look at for these 2 brands.

Good shop to buy in Bangalore and any current offers.

Will post my experience in AC shopping post purchase.
~maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aroy (Post 2737874)

The 3 phase a/c have another problem . If one of the phase from the EB is not avaliable then the A/C cannot be switched on . Whereas a single phase a/c can still be used if there is only one phase supply from the EB . Areas where there is a 3 phase constant supply , one must definitely look at 3 phase a/c rather than going for a single phase especially if the capacity of the A/C is 2ton or above . Whenever I suggest buying a 3 phase a/c people just stare at me and they are not even aware that there are 3 phase models available . The digital scroll compressor is very efficient , but the problem is it is limited bigger units and adoption rate at the lower category is very rare due to the cost .

The heat exchanger does play a very huge role in the efficiency of the A/c . Especially the bigger the condenser the better the cooling ,because the heat has to be lost as quickly as possible . Another advantage with a split unit is the fact that the outdoor unit has its own fan and the indoor unit has its own fan . So the advantage here is that the speed of the outdoor fan is always at its max and is not limited by the speed control in a window unit ,since both the cooling and the evaporator coil use the same fan .

Going by this thread most of the Indians seem to fall for marketing stuff like star rating or for the marketing hype created by respective companies rather than actually study a product and then by it for its advantages or disadvantages .

After some great buying experience at Reliance Digital (Shipra Mall, Ghaziabad, Uttar Pradesh), finally they too succumbed to sadakchaap (roadside) marketing tactics.

The details are as follows:

I had purchased Voltas Vertis 1.5 tonne window AC from Reliance Digital on the afternoon of 8th April 2012.

The amount that I had paid was Rs. 21,888.00 for the AC only (everything else like stabilizer, installation, extended warranty was paid separately).

When the delivery took place in the evening around 8PM I found out that the MRP printed on the carton was Rs. 19,990 only.

Further, I was told that the AC would be 2011 model which I had assumed would be November/December 2011 make.

However, the AC delivered to me is almost 2 years old. The date of manufacture printed on the carton is 06/2010, that is June 2010.

I have send email both to Reliance Digital (for obvious reasons) and Voltas (for selling such old stocks in market). Spoken also to a lawyer. I wonder how many people they must have duped by now.

Do guide me on the future course of action.

Bought an AC from Reliance Digital at Bangalore. Bought a 1.0Ton Samsung Split 2*. Cooling capacity is 3516 W (exact 1 ton I guess) and power consumption of 1.24KW. Paid 23,000 for the AC + Stabilizer + wall bracket of outdoor unit and paid 1500 for installation.

I was looking at ACs <25k. Here is what all I saw:

- Whirlpool Chrome at 26K including installation at Pai. The EER is similar to Samsung but cooling capacity is lower 3.34KW. Was a 2011 model.

- Godrej 1.0 ton 5* with EER of 3.0x at Pai. Priced at 26K including installation. Cooling capacity of 3.3xKW. Had paid for it and then cancelled as it was a 2011 model.

- Panasonic 1.0 ton 2* with EER of 2.86. Similar priced at 23.5K including installation at Reliance. Cooling capacity was lesser than Samsung. The plastic was flimsy (could rattle after a while) and was a 2011 model / make. This model was priced at 26k in Pai.

Then saw Samsung at Reliance. Cooling efficiency of 2.84 was 2*-3* maginal and with limited use suited well. 2012 model and higher cooling capacity than other 1 ton brands made it a deal. Some of other Samsung purchases have been fine so thought it would be OK / Safe.

Also saw Samsung 1.0ton 5* which seemed a good buy at 28K including installation, especially since its cooling capacity ~4kw is close to 1.1 ton but was big for us and we expect to use the AC for 3 months an year or lesser.
Had also seen Hitachi - 3* and 5*, very well specced but expensive.

The Reliance Digital guys have so far been good. I paid on Saturday evening, they delivered on Sunday late afternoon and on my request installed on Sunday late evening. The installation was satisfactory. So far so good.

The AC : very early days but the cooling is good.

Hope the above helps prospective buyers.

~maniac