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30th April 2010, 08:54 | #91 |
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| For some android skeptics who believe home grown el cheapo phone running some ugly fast OS and hardware already selling at discount prices are better than android - The HTC Droid Incredible is out of stock after less than a day of availability at Verizon Wireless HTC DROID Incredible sold out, new orders ship May 4th Boy Genius Report |
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30th April 2010, 18:31 | #92 | |
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FYI since last time we interacted on this thread much water has flown under the bridge now smart phone Competition is now iPhone OS 4 and Symbian 3 , Look at Nokia N8 which is based on Symbian 3 just for comparison. Still As I see Android market percentage has not changed in last 3 months And FYI ugly fast OS you refer to are called RTOS in correct terminology. PS : The full price of this phone is 529.99 US $ you can buy 5 or 6 phones with so called ugly fast OS for similar use cases. So at 529.99 US $ still better choices are from rivals who can provide productive applications, Thanks but N8 with Full HD and HDMI out is more attractive any day at similar price point. Last edited by amitk26 : 30th April 2010 at 18:35. | |
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30th April 2010, 20:36 | #93 | |
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applicable for the likes of MS. Now please don't go around preaching soft vs hard realtime etc., Reminds me of the ~ 100 lines of C+assembly code written as a fresh grad to build one and much faster than RTOSes of the day. PS:Exactly my point, with price of phone falling almost to half launch price, we might be able to buy bucket full of these along with their Chinese cousins. Wonder how long companies are going to sit in their citadels of RTOS / fancy OS and continue to sell junk and continue to claim superiority. I know, there has been enough gas about Symbian 3. Beats me how Nokia was sitting on this revolutionary stuff, gold mine ..etc., all along and reporting losses and poor forecast . Hope N8 fills its coffers again and they reverse their plans to dump Symbian and go meego. Yes, there have been enough dooms day sayers for Linux / open source / collaborative work claiming how a closed group(publishing 4 files to meet legal requirements doesn't make a company proponent of open source) of highly paid intellectuals will have the final word, but then world is yet to see another Jobs/Woz or Gates. Vijay | |
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30th April 2010, 20:53 | #94 | |
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Money is earned on business strategy ( for instance appstore , itunes store) and not necessarily on technology, best example is Palm webos it was better then many others but then did not earn money. You can hold your views on Nokia but still they are not making loss their profits are 1.3 Billion per quarter. Yes it is true that Apple has operational margin of 30% and they earn more then Nokia per quarter ( 2 Billion vs 1.3 Billion) but then it is not necessarily true that they are technically ahead. Any way Android still does not stand in this packing order anywhere :-) Also I dont think there is any point in discussing on any other thing if you are so opinionated about Android but still the major flaws are not fixed and it needs 1Ghz Cortex A8 to do same job which Nokia is doing with a 600 Mhz Cortex core. And thats why Battery life sucks apart from the point that application management is extremely poor. FYI : Meego is for entirely different class of devices , Intel strategy document put meego as a common OS for variety of large form factor devices such as notebooks , TV , Camera and Net-books to run common applications ( do a google search on 3 screen ) not necessarily smartphones. Last edited by amitk26 : 30th April 2010 at 20:57. | |
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1st May 2010, 11:13 | #95 | |
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Float conspiracy theories when on why competitors product get sold out and pat our backs when ours get sold out. Funny. Did you check how old is intel's strategy document by any chance?. There are other big players including Nokia who seem to be betting more on this than their home grown Symbian etc., As can be easily made out(pretty sure its not too much for a whiz kid to ask for), Android is following a strategy of incremental change and too many clones in the market in its road to perfection and in the process making improved versions available for developer community to work on - which is exactly how google/linux (and its flavors) flourished, while Nokia and Apple are going their one launch in a year or so approach. Both strategies are good in their own rights and no point cribbing that the other side is flawed. HDMI/HD ? - Don't be surprised if one of the several android phones also get them soon. Vijay | |
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6th May 2010, 12:16 | #96 |
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| Android (and Samsung) seems to be getting big on tablets too now - Samsung's Android-powered S-Pad tablet with 7-inch Super AMOLED in August? -- Engadget More and more folks are realizing advantage of going with opensource. All we need is to pickup a phone/tablet with powerful hardware(cortex etc.,) and rest assured the upgrades to newer versions will continue to happen for quite sometime. Android's newer version 'Froyo' will be launched tentatively by May 19th and am sure many of the phones(we were expecting upgrade to) on 2.1 Eclair will soon jump the bandwagon and launch Froyo upgrades in another 4-5 months once they launch newer ones they already planned for Froyo. Vijay Last edited by vjoy3 : 6th May 2010 at 12:20. |
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6th May 2010, 17:14 | #97 |
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| Hi, As promised I finally upgraded the SPICA with Android 2.1 Image ( Eclairs) and below is my report after playing for 30 minutes with updated image. The images are country specific , As Indian image is still not out I have used an European image. The update is officially available in Europe As nothing is official , You need to do this at the risk of bricking your phone. A little web search can tell you about Odin Multidownloader and from where to get firmware so I am not detailing that here. If still you need some help regarding that PM me and I will try to provide information as best I can. A disclaimer all the below are my personal views , If you are Android Fan and do not like them please do not bother to counter them as I will not respond to any advocacy on this thread and ignore this post all together. I am already tired of the discussion on other Android thread and have stopped posting there for the same reason. For those who do not know this is a Google experience phone and Google tightly control how thier services should be exposed. The noose is tightened in Android 2.1 as the compliance test cases for Google experience grows. Read point 3 in my list of negatives for the same You may have certain concerns about exposing your location to Google. Thankfully as of today at least in India they are not bombarding with advertisements but who knows by next release you will get alerts like pizza hut 500 m away etc Positives after updating to Android 2.1 ( Apart from usual which you can read on net anyway) 1. Kernel version 2.6.29 earlier image was based on 2.6.27 kernel. Android actually specifies just a minimum version ( 2.6.23 as I remember) and Kernal image is from the phone vendor. Build I am using is ECLAIR.XXJD1 Actually this does not make sense to average Joe but you can just assume that Linux Kernel is always improving and follows actual open source process unlike pseudo open source model of Android so you can blindly trust this part and just think that there are some good fixes else go to www.kernel.org and check the diff between 2.6.27 and 2.6.29 . 2 As I wrote on this thread battery usage is biggest drawback on Android This is due to the application model and there is no change in Android 2.1 ( or any of the not yet released versions for that matter). So what a phone maker can do at best is to inform who is hogging battery so that you can decide to kill the hog :-) Now under phone status ( About Phone) there is information on who is using battery so you can check and kill the apps which are hogging battery by using some application such as Advanced Task killer. 3. There is information on Signal strength in DB as well , So you can not now dispute if call drop is happening due to poor signal strength or not. Most of the time Application platform ( android or any other) will have no role to play in dropped calls as it is controlled by modem but Perhaps doubts casted by all and sundry prompted to add this :-) 4. An unlock Icon on home screen, You need to touch and scroll to the right earlier it was just through hard side key. 5. More graphics effects in new version of SKIA ( Graphics Engine of Android) better blending and fade in /out. 6. Improvement in Input method editor, Typing is bit easier than before. 7. VPN Connection is supported. 8. Earlier synch was only with Google Services, Now allows to Synch with facebook and Corporate which can be any IMAP server I guess. 9. APN settings have one more option to select different APNs for MMS and internet just in case your operator supports multiple APNs , This is clearly a European requirement as operators like 3 ( UK , Sweden) support multiple PDP and thus APNs I am not sure it will be in Indian image or not. 10. Voice search supported 11. Full local search supported. 12. Lots of new gestures, though the gesture support is still primitive in Android compared to iPhone or even Samsungs own H1 Linux phones ( not available in India anyway) Negatives for which I hate the update. 1. Performance is improved a bit but still not what it should be on an 800 Mhz advanced SOC. You need to remember an earlier version of same Samsung SOC is used in iPhone 2. Android 1.6 default Messaging application there was no option to backup your SMS on SIM card. By default it copies the SMS data in phone memory always ( SIM read is too slow on Android) So reflashing means loosing your SMS data 3. In the location till Android 1.6 there was option to use both network based and satellite based but now for network based (AGPS) it prompts to agree to sharing the location data with Google if you refuse then you cannot use network based location , Such a pests they are.. and still some people go in endless debates on how Android is good harping on it being Open ;-) AFAIK this new requirement is due to Google experience compliance there are some 22000 tests :-) when I checked last time. 3. No option in 1.6 or 2.1 to backup the installed application on SD card. In case you have purchased applications then you may loose them until you follow some round about ways. What will be the great harm if the android package can be backed up on SD card? I suspect this may also be due to Google experience compliance because they do not have a DRM solution for applications so such oddities are introduced to protect the payed applications. Regards Last edited by amitk26 : 6th May 2010 at 17:26. Reason: Fixing errors due to copy from MS Word |
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6th May 2010, 20:13 | #98 |
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| You can be pretty sure that i didn't understand a word of what you guys are talking about Among the current OS available in the market my understanding is Apple 3 OS is the best. What comes next? Symbian 2? Infact it was bit of a suprise to me when Nokia decided to continue with Symbian as few years back they agreed to its failures and were about to dump it. Not to mention the phones running on the current version of Symbian still hangs often |
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6th May 2010, 20:50 | #99 |
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| As promised I finally upgraded the SPICA with Android 2.1 Image ( Eclairs) and below is my report after playing for 30 minutes with updated image. The images are country specific , As Indian image is still not out I have used an European image. The update is officially available in Europe As nothing is official , You need to do this at the risk of bricking your phone. A little web search can tell you about Odin Multidownloader and from where to get firmware so I am not detailing that here. If still you need some help regarding that PM me and I will try to provide information as best I can. A disclaimer all the below are my personal views , If you are Android Fan and do not like them please do not bother to counter them as I will not respond to any advocacy on this thread and ignore this post all together. I am already tired of the discussion on other Android thread and have stopped posting there for the same reason. Tired of explaining how corby(guru next?) is better than android or ran out of reasons to pull down android?. Ever wondered why your own company is having a huge line up of androids. You need to learn differentiate between open source and freeware. The code(all of kernel and good chunk of user space except for the ones which phone manufacturers - a.k.a samsung in this case) decided to keep proprietary. Everything in opensource will mean Samsungs, LGs and other manufacturers exposing code(and hence design details) that makes their hardware better than competition - which they will not agree. No point if you continue cribbing on google for that - no hardware of their own & nothing to loose for them?. Hope you got the idea at least this time. For those who do not know this is a Google experience phone and Google tightly control how thier services should be exposed. The noose is tightened in Android 2.1 as the compliance test cases for Google experience grows. Read point 3 in my list of negatives for the same Google adds 22000+ tests not to make product more stable but to tighten noose?. It went beyond that and even published them. Good joke. Your own test/QA team would be very interested in reading these comments. And I was thinking 'compliance test suite' was not an alien concept to you yourself as long as you were part of whatever forum you were member of. Or do we have more conspiracy theories here? You may have certain concerns about exposing your location to Google. Thankfully as of today at least in India they are not bombarding with advertisements but who knows by next release you will get alerts like pizza hut 500 m away etc Positives after updating to Android 2.1 ( Apart from usual which you can read on net anyway) 1. Kernel version 2.6.29 earlier image was based on 2.6.27 kernel. Android actually specifies just a minimum version ( 2.6.23 as I remember) and Kernal image is from the phone vendor. Build I am using is ECLAIR.XXJD1 Actually this does not make sense to average Joe but you can just assume that Linux Kernel is always improving and follows actual open source process unlike pseudo open source model of Android so you can blindly trust this part and just think that there are some good fixes else go to www.kernel.org and check the diff between 2.6.27 and 2.6.29 . Wait, you mean the above mentioned kernel that came as part of android is not open source?. Interesting. By the way folks the next version of android - Froyo which google should announce in a week or two will have 2.6.32 and the one coming by October will have 2.6.34. Wanna compare with Symbian or Apple upgrades? 2 As I wrote on this thread battery usage is biggest drawback on Android This is due to the application model and there is no change in Android 2.1 ( or any of the not yet released versions for that matter). So what a phone maker can do at best is to inform who is hogging battery so that you can decide to kill the hog :-) Now under phone status ( About Phone) there is information on who is using battery so you can check and kill the apps which are hogging battery by using some application such as Advanced Task killer. 3. There is information on Signal strength in DB as well , So you can not now dispute if call drop is happening due to poor signal strength or not. Most of the time Application platform ( android or any other) will have no role to play in dropped calls as it is controlled by modem but Perhaps doubts casted by all and sundry prompted to add this :-) 4. An unlock Icon on home screen, You need to touch and scroll to the right earlier it was just through hard side key. 5. More graphics effects in new version of SKIA ( Graphics Engine of Android) better blending and fade in /out. 6. Improvement in Input method editor, Typing is bit easier than before. 7. VPN Connection is supported. 8. Earlier synch was only with Google Services, Now allows to Synch with facebook and Corporate which can be any IMAP server I guess. 9. APN settings have one more option to select different APNs for MMS and internet just in case your operator supports multiple APNs , This is clearly a European requirement as operators like 3 ( UK , Sweden) support multiple PDP and thus APNs I am not sure it will be in Indian image or not. 10. Voice search supported 11. Full local search supported. 12. Lots of new gestures, though the gesture support is still primitive in Android compared to iPhone or even Samsungs own H1 Linux phones ( not available in India anyway) Negatives for which I hate the update. 1. Performance is improved a bit but still not what it should be on an 800 Mhz advanced SOC. You need to remember an earlier version of same Samsung SOC is used in iPhone 2. Android 1.6 default Messaging application there was no option to backup your SMS on SIM card. By default it copies the SMS data in phone memory always ( SIM read is too slow on Android) So reflashing means loosing your SMS data Agree, this can be improved upon. But then you can save SMS on SIM too? 3. In the location till Android 1.6 there was option to use both network based and satellite based but now for network based (AGPS) it prompts to agree to sharing the location data with Google if you refuse then you cannot use network based location , Such a pests they are.. and still some people go in endless debates on how Android is good harping on it being Open ;-) AFAIK this new requirement is due to Google experience compliance there are some 22000 tests :-) when I checked last time. Incorrect. Check this Google Privacy Center. For the privacy term you have to agree when trying google maps thru AGPS - google maps is not opensource but is free(nobody is forcing you to use it) - hope you know this much?. A quick search of market place should yield enough freewares that don't stipulate agreeing to such terms. They may not be as good as gmaps but may have paid full versions. 3. No option in 1.6 or 2.1 to backup the installed application on SD card. In case you have purchased applications then you may loose them until you follow some round about ways. What will be the great harm if the android package can be backed up on SD card? I suspect this may also be due to Google experience compliance because they do not have a DRM solution for applications so such oddities are introduced to protect the payed applications. Wrong. I know of at least two companies that are working on apps (paid like in iphone) for to address this. Last edited by vjoy3 : 6th May 2010 at 20:54. |
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6th May 2010, 22:53 | #100 | |||||
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Did you ever conducted the tests I gave elsewhereto check how well Dalvik performs ? About open source while I can say Kernel.org , GTK+ and various other projects hosted by Linux foundation are fully open-source. Android does not fall in same league there are several reasons but since you choose not to understand so better leave at that point. Kernel code for various chip-sets including from TI and Samsung (Samsung phones use both) are available at kernel.org about propriety stuff like TI bridge code for IAM interfaces and similar code from other hardware vendors it is still not open so why keep on harping on that. Quote:
Is this a conspiracy theory ? Also number of test cases do not tell anything Well FYI if you don't know NTT DoCoMo in Japan has more then 100,000 test cases and theirs are most closed business model. The whole promise of Google experience is to tighten the noose. Even google is clear about it when they expose Google service API strangely only you seem to deny it why don't you talk to someone from OHA or google for a change and ask about it. Quote:
So what can you tell what are the exact patches in Kernel which google added except the binder which of-course was based on pre-existing open binder done by Access company of Japan who also owns ALP and Palm OS. Kernel.org exists with out Android as well. Symbian ^3 is also open source now but I am not following it Apple is closed source but then their usability and market share is definitely higher. Quote:
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6th May 2010, 23:04 | #101 | |||
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I had tried sim swapping couple of days back, but got totally confused; because I used 3 sims, and one of them was a BSNL one. (dad's). I tried again today, (before reading this post) and now the phone says no sim card found!!! So, could not try other SIMs on this phone; but my SIM works in the 2730,a nd there also, it says "subscribe to packet data". So, the problem is with my SIM. Now, I have to spend tomorrow at the service center!!!! Grrrr,,,,, Edit:- (to avoid multiple posts) Quote:
Edit 2:- The following quote is from my Nokia 5130 XpressMusic user manual. Quote:
Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 6th May 2010 at 23:15. | |||
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6th May 2010, 23:40 | #102 | |
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In fact Android phones do support them. What we were discussing was copy protection of installed apps. downloaded form app store for instance I purchase an app for 30$ make backup on SD card of the package and reinstall it on another phone for 0$. The above is not a valid use case but in case I am updating firmware on same phone then my installed app should not be wiped out I should have mechanism to backup my 30$ App for re-installing the same app on same phone. As this is a valid use case from end user point of view. | |
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7th May 2010, 09:54 | #103 |
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| More assumptions about how dumb the other guy is?. Pity you.
Been there, done that. May be you are in not a position to contribute to Open Handset Alliance and hence the complaints?. Unlike Apples, and Nokias of the world, google encourages developer community to actually report bugs and fixes. Issues - android - Project Hosting on Google Code Same goes for the hundreds of mails that get exchanged on various groups for android - firmware/app-developers/beginners/porting/discuss(new ideas) etc., where you are free to contribute.May help if you do some value add there rather than just cribbing. Did it occur to you that the APIs are to ensure having a standard platform for all app developers and hence portability of apps across phones?. Nothing new here, almost all other models that encourage app development do that. And, yes, you need to really convince OHA that the new API you fancy is missing is really needed. Nothing wrong there. Am sure when Symbian and other 'open source' projects start helping multiple phones same time, they too would like the phone to pass certain tests before certifying as compliant. As you rightly said, NTT Docomo does that internally to maintain quality and AFAIK Samsung QA too has some pretty tough tests for Android (besides the 22000+ you are refering). Is that wrong to have?. about propriety stuff like TI bridge code for IAM interfaces and similar code from other hardware vendors it is still not open so why keep on harping on that. And you are blaming google for this or is it the fault with TI/Samsung etc.,? Last edited by vjoy3 : 7th May 2010 at 10:04. |
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9th May 2010, 14:35 | #104 |
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| Ssung Galaxy Spica upgrade to 2.1 Friends; I bought the Galaxy Spica yesterday. The installed specs are: Firmware Version: 1.5 Baseband version: I5700DDIK2 Kernel Version:2.6.27 IMTRS@SE-S506 Build Number: CUPCAKE.DDIL1 No doubt the phone is great, got it easily integrated with wireless network at home. The Idea edge network works great too. My Punto's Blue & Me works perfectly with Spica. Its great value for money. Went to the Samsung store today to upgrade the firmware to 2.1. I have been called back on Monday for the upgrade. During the discussions I had with the guy there, he told me that a binary CSC file only needs to be upgraded as has been directed by Samsung. Since I am new to Android, my question to friends who have already got the firmware upgrade is that will upgrading the CSC file automatically upgrade the firmware also to 2.1? Regards; -Rohit |
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9th May 2010, 19:59 | #105 |
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| Android Gains With Small Phone Makers in China - Android Gains With Small Phone Makers in China - Yahoo! News Vijay |
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