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BHPian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Bangalore
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| 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake It has been little over two years since we bought the Microsoft Surface Pro 2017 model. This post details our reasons for choosing this product, performance, drawbacks and Microsoft's lack of customer support in India (at least in the B2C space). In keeping with Team BHP review style, I have divided the review into various sections - you can skip to the ones you find most relevant. For a comprehensive understanding, please read the full post.
Pros
Cons
Background The year is 2018 - my partner had been using a HP Pavilion x360 for over 3 years and it was starting to show. There were enough problems in both hardware and software for us to evaluate a new purchase rather than spend money upgrading the laptop. As a PhD scholar, her needs revolved mostly around reading a lot of PDFs, notes, marking up for reference and of course, typing out documents. She also travelled often for field work, which meant we needed something light, portable while not sacrificing battery life or performance. Since this was a long term purchase, we decided to look at the top end of the laptop spectrum. After a lot of deliberation and frowning, we decided to drop the MacBook Pro 2018 models. Re learning the OS and buying into the new app eco-system seemed a lot more taxing, so Windows it was! In 2018, premium laptops that ran Windows were plenty - they continue to grow in number actually. Pathetic ownership from previous HP meant that the Envy or Spectre line were not considered. A long, hard look at the Dell XPS 13 convinced both of us about it's ability to function as a 'tool' to get things done. Though I was well aware of the Surface line up in India, I was not sure she would take to the radical form factor of the Pro. In her head, a laptop has a keyboard and monitor attached by a hinge, not a floppy piece of Alcantara attached to a tablet! Being a tech enthusiast, it is times like these when I talk to others who look at technology as a mere enabler, that I realise we nerds tend to live in a bubble. While we were doing final rounds of trial of keyboard, trackpad etc., on the Dell, I pointed towards the Surface Pro and explained how it can be a better fit for her requirements. A tablet to read, make notes and a laptop to type out documents. It was also much slimmer and portable than the XPS 13. A few minutes of checking out the system and she was sold - our next big ticket purchase for 3-4 years would be a Surface Pro. At the time, Microsoft had bundled a keyboard at a reasonable price. Final cost of the device with 3 years of extended warranty from Reliance Digital was close to INR 85,000/-. With a lot of excitement, we got the device home and started using it straight away. The hinge seemed magical in how it supported so many possibilities of work and play. The Alcantara keyboard was nothing like any keyboard we used before and the overall feel of the product was more a physical notebook than a computer. Design and Build Microsoft has been refining the Surface line for quite a few years and I feel it was in this 2017 model that the Pro family reached it's peak. Indeed, the overall design has not changed since - including hinge movement, screen etc., The bezels maybe on the thicker side, but they do not take away much from the overall experience. The lines are clean, precise and seem to have a purpose. It feels like an extremely well crafted tool that is so well thought out that there are no splashes of color or lights required to make it interesting. The 3:2 aspect ratio makes such a small screen highly useable. Surprised why the legendary Thinkpad line has not done this yet - or HP's Probook and Dell Latitude for that matter. The build quality of the tablet is pretty great. There are absolutely no creaks or abnormalities to report. Everything from the power button to the etched Microsoft logo at the back feel well put together. As someone who owns and loves Apple products myself, I can say this Surface is in the same league of hardware quality. Even the vents designed to cool the internals are precision milled. Screen is another noteworthy point here - great resolution, deep blacks and fantastic colors. Coupled with good speakers, it makes for a pretty decent media consumption device - although I feel the iPad Pro line has it beat here. Overall, I must say I have zero complaints of the build quality of the tablet part of this device. We will come to accessories later in the post. Performance Our model is equipped with a 7th Gen Intel Core i5 processor. Since this is a 'U' processor designed for thin and light devices like the Surface Pro, your expectations should be modest. It can handle productivity tasks like Office, browsers etc., with ease, but struggles to run games. To reiterate, this is not a gaming laptop. It was in the 2017 line that the Surface Pro was designed to accommodate an i5 processor without need for any fans. This is a silent machine that makes you doubt it's capabilities at times. The fan less design is a phenomenal achievement by Microsoft if I were to be honest. If they can do it, so can other OEMs. Back to performance - so far, there have been no hiccups or inability to run any app (excluding games). This thing just flies. I can only imagine what the latest Surface Pro 7 line can do - with the 10th gen processor, faster RAM and storage speeds. Small yet significant things
Service and Support So far, I have sang praises of the Surface Pro thanks to great quality hardware, thoughtful design and a unique set of features that only this line of products currently offer. Before I get into the 'not so rosy' parts of this ownership, I want to make it clear that we have taken excellent care of the device. Still, below are things I want to talk about - Issues faced
While these issues seem fairly normal to a majority of us, it is not something I expect out of a premium product. What makes the story worse is Microsoft's pathetic customer support here in India. Let me elaborate - Microsoft does not have a call center, service centre, or even authorised third party repair shops for their products in India. To report a problem, you need to raise a ticket on their site (assuming you have another computer handy) and they call you back on a VoIP number that cannot be dialled back. While there is no lack of professionalism during the call, the reality is that remote diagnosis can only take you so far. Warranty checks are done using your email ID where you can clearly see what parts of the device or accessories are covered and for how long. To aid this process, they run through a few rudimentary questions to classify the issue to be hardware related and let you know that a replacement will be shipped to your address of choice. All this sounds great, unless you realize that a multitude of things can go wrong. The first charger replacement was smooth - a complaint was registered and withing 4 business days, the replacement arrived. It was all going well, until a few months later the keyboard stopped working. As mentioned before, the device came with a Signature Type Cover that is covered in luxurious feeling Alcantara. Though tough to keep clean, the trade-off it offers in terms of feel is hard to pass off. When the keyboard stopped working, we found out from the online portal that it was covered under warranty. Now, for the full story. A ticket raised to Microsoft made sure that a replacement would be delivered to us in 7-10 business days. After a couple of days of registering for this, I took another look at the email only to understand that they were not replacing it with a 'Signature' Type cover, but a regular one. To clarify, the standard type cover does not have the Alcantara material, but a regular rubber feeling plastic which we were not keen on. Microsoft later asked for plenty of documentation to substantiate my claim and it took them about a month's time to ship the Signature Type Cover. Hoping for an answer from their leadership, I wrote to them on various platforms with a visual timeline of how much time we lost during this whole process, but there was no revert on email or LinkedIn. This is indeed disappointing as I expect good customer experience when buying into a premium product. Now to the replacement charger - I have read many complaints about the charger not being durable, but first hand experience has confirmed this for me. The design by itself seems very fragile and makes me think constantly about how the pin in connected to the device. When it stopped working, we reached out to Microsoft support only to realise that they do not actually sell replacement units here in India. I was directed to check in Croma, Reliance Digital or buy any of the chargers listed on Amazon. It must be noted that no electronics store sells replacement chargers, so no luck at Croma or Reliance Digital for us. Since I was not comfortable buying chargers from Amazon (none of them carried a Microsoft authorization certificate), I ended up importing a charger from J-Go Tech, a company that specializes in USB-C charging solutions. Summing up, I really still like the Surface Pro. I think it is a device unlike anything else in the market. However, Microsoft's miserable after sales support means you are best served by mainstream brands like Lenovo, Dell, Asus, HP etc., It's sad to be honest - a great product let down by negligent customer support. Few closing comments - I did not include pictures in this post since there are plenty available online. Also, I understand that reviews on Amazon, Flipkart etc., on the Surface lineup is pretty miserable solely based on their pricing (I am not sure how many even bought the product to come to conclusions). So, if you need help with specific features (Surface Pen, replacement charger, pictures of specific components etc.,) or detailed answers, please feel free to reach out. Last edited by tejus.s : 19th September 2020 at 09:27. |
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Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() | Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Gadgets Section. Thanks for sharing! We've been having a lot of computer / laptop discussions lately ![]() |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake I concur with your views about the surface. It is more of a Tablet than a laptop. The lack of options to upgrade components makes it a difficult long term choice. I recall an incident a few years ago. The company gave us a grant of about 2 lakhs to buy whatever device we chose, as long as it became the primary official device for 4 years. Unlike many others, I bough a run of the mill Asus laptop with the best available configuration, which was also the cheapest option. Most of my colleagues bought Macbooks and Surface pro devices. I am the only one still using my laptop happily. All of them paid from their pockets to upgrade because their devices were too problematic for daily use while traveling etc. Get a normal laptop like Asus or Thinkpad- will last you long and won't be a headache to fix. |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake I have the Surface Pro LTE model and it works like a charm, even after 2.5 years. The convenience of not having to open up a hotspot while on the go is great. It is now my primary device and in a sea of apples, this does stand out in meetings ![]() The Surface pen is awesome and in my profession where creativity meets business, I have found it indispensable. There are only two major gripes I have with this. 1. The alcantara is now coming off along the edges. Might have to replace it eventually. That is a solid 10k in India. 2. The charger seriously sucks. I am on my 4th cheap charger and I think it has reduced my battery life a bit (from 8/9 hrs to 5/6 hrs or it's just the incessant zoom calls) I intend to use it for a few more years as the hardware is still going strong and I don't do heavy gaming. |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Quote:
I believe the Alcantara keyboards are around 15000 in India. Having used them, I am not sure of going with the regular type covers when there is a need for replacement. As per the charger, my recommendation is to get a 45W/65W USB-C power brick and get a USB-C to Surface Connect cable. The 45W charger can be used to charge your other devices as well. Some useful links below -
I believe Samsung also has a 45W USB C charger on their site. Hope that helps! | |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Great post! Microsoft has a long history of making some great, criminally under-rated peripherals, especially input devices. Everything from the legendary Intellimice to the Natural/Sculpt Keyboards (I have been daily-driving one for the past 10 years and it still works just fine). Webcams, controllers, you name it, they were all either discontinued without successor/disappeared from the market altogether (also very much a MS trait). The Surface devices on the other hand are among the few windows machines where touch/pen Input is not a gimmick/afterthought or just a checkmark on the spec. sheet. Unfortunately, virtually non-existent support in India makes them very hard to recommend. They're mostly relegated to being a placeholder for the 'PCs with Mac fit/finish' category. Personally, I've used a Surface GO with a Logitech K480 keyboard for a few weeks and had no complaints during my time with it. Last edited by Amien : 19th September 2020 at 17:45. Reason: personally |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake I purchased my Microsoft Laptop during my time in the US, an i5 256GB SSD configuration in 2017. 3 yrs on, its running as good as Day 1, no replacements done till date, battery still lasts around 7-8 hours for regular use, no slowdowns or crashes, boot time is blazingly fast, charger is the magnetic type and no issues with it, Alcantara material is still holding on great. Considering I got it for $800 (after offers), its an awesome buy. None of my earlier windows based laptops have been so good after 3 years. Now, if there are issues, I'm not sure how Microsoft will handle it in India. Since my work laptop is different, I guess the Surface will last a year or 2 easily. Your thread has been an eye opener on how the service standards differ for even premium products in India compared to the US. Last edited by vb-saan : 21st September 2020 at 14:29. Reason: Corrected as per request |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake I bought a top of the line Surface Pro 4 in January 2016 and it is still going strong. I have used it for 3D modelling on Solidworks, 3D CNC programming on Solidcam and it has really served me well. I replaced it in July this year as my 3D software were getting more CPU hungry. My Surface Pro 4 is still doing duty in a dual monitor setup for my son's online schooling. Original charger, original keyboard, original pen. They all work just fine. |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Quote:
That's great. I wish I could have a hassle free experience for the money spent. Curious to hear from fellow BHPians who have bought MS products here in India. Last edited by vb-saan : 21st September 2020 at 14:30. Reason: Quoted post edited | |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Quote:
![]() I found many sites where owners of Xbox in India had stated that as long as it is in warranty, they would replace the device swiftly. But once the warranty was over, you were on your own. There was no spares or repair support from Microsoft and one had to either throw the device or resort to 'jugaad'. This is after paying much higher than their equivalent price in the US. ![]() I did postpone my purchase till Sony was ready with a 4K console but I am yet to research their aftersales support. Existing owners of any Microsoft hardware may confirm the correctness of my findings. Last edited by Researcher : 21st September 2020 at 14:44. | |
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BHPian ![]() | Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake I have both SP6 256 GB (wify!) and SP7 128GB (mine). Both are i5 with 8GB. 1. Performance wise it may not be great even compared to the same i5 traditional laptops as they do not have active cooling like fans, but, they are light, sturdy and get things done like any laptop with that great mobility/lightness. Added bonus, it is a great head turner! :-) 2. The biggest problems it has are the data transfer speed with the SSD which is horrible with the i5 model with 128 GB SSD. 2.a The 256 GB performs better and that is why I went for the 256 GB model for SP6 but SP7 256 GB was having absurd pricing, so, I did not bother. 2.b Also for SP6, I went for the business model which had a slightly better processor as well. SP7 did not have a Business model. 3. SP7 is having 10th gen i5 processor, while SP6 has 8th Gen. I see a very slight improvement in performance. 4. In terms of usage, I have used the Surface Pen extensively in One Note and it is very useful, no doubt! I attend many meetings/trainings and take lots of notes and One Note works best in SP, I believe. 5. Battery life is around 5 hours in normal usage. I have not tried this with a video and all. It never gives 10 hours as promised and it is a bummer for me. 6. Win 10 seems to work smoothly but still 8 GB sometimes feels like playing spoilsport along with i5. 7. 7th Gen Intel processors are really slow and that shows up in Surface Pros especially, because they do not have any active cooling mechanism like fans. So, the CPU will be throttled heavily once it heats up. So, Surface Pro should be considered only if it is either series 6 or with 8th gen Intel CPU on wards as there was good performance gains with the processors. O.T but still related, with AMD 4th Gen, processor like 4800H, giving Intel i7s and even i9 run for their money. Just google and compare the CPUBenchmark scores. I am just waiting for more laptops with AMDs like Surface Pros. Intel loosing its battle in a big way already! Competition is good. Last edited by sgmuser : 21st September 2020 at 18:43. Reason: update about processor |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake The keyboard's issue is being faced by me as well. The dealer from whom I brought this when he checked it, it starts working fine like nothing happened. He even kept it for 1 day to check if the problem persists, but nothing happened. It still troubles me once in a week but disconnect it and it starts working again. None accepts that the keyboard is not working sometimes. The device has been a primary working device for me and outstanding battery performance has been a boon to me. Hope Microsoft fixes this issue soon. |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Quote:
1. I have never run into any performance issues for my workflow. The Core i5 works well for daily tasks and I have mentioned this in my initial notes well. Benchmarks may point to boost in performance, but they may translate to marginal gains for my workflow. The 10th gen processors bring instant on and faster authentication, which are bigger gains for someone like me. 2. I was not aware of the SSD speeds being different across different SKUs. My research on laptops going forward will include this point - thank you! By business model, do you mean you bought it as an Enterprise purchase? 3. Agreed on Surface Pen and One Note experience - it's very tightly integrated. Whole heartedly recommend the combo to existing/potential Surface Pro customers. 4. Battery life is a disappointment when you compare it to the claims made by MS. But I find it has more consistent standby time compared to other Windows laptops. Again, must be the overall integration that MS can control with both hardware and software. 5. 8GB RAM has been sufficient for my workflow. Although, my MacBook Pro 16 with 32 GB has made me second guess that opinion slightly! Quote:
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake |
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| Re: 2017 Surface Pro : An Expensive Mistake Quote:
Quote:
I got the Xbox 360 when it was launched in 2005. There was some nagging problem with the power supply brick(which is a huge brick, bigger in some dimensions and heavier than the current gen consoles themselves!) and MS fixed it for me a couple of times, eventually shipping me a new replacement brick from Malaysia which has since worked fine. This was outside of warranty, and I don't remember the pricing or the timeline or any such details as it was more than 12-13 years ago. After that, my console itself failed(due to a known design flaw in the very early models) and I was able to procure a new one from them without too much hassle, possibly for free or for a very low price. To this day the 2nd 360 still works great and I haven't faced any problems with my One S, either. In my experience, consoles don't face a lot of problems, particularly considering advancements in the manufacturing process and the general reliability of all electronics. Coming to the Surface side of things, it is a pain to get them fixed when something goes wrong. We have a Surface Pro 2(2013) and SP6(2018, I think) and the SP2 has perennially had charger problems. We had to get two replacement power adapters shipped from the US, which eventually fell apart themselves, and even with a working power adapter, the machine eventually bricked itself from running out of charge and was dead for a couple of years. None of the service centers could fix it, and most didn't even take it in - because it was a tablet and not a laptop. Eventually, I was able to fix it myself(turns out the charging pin had broken at some point, dropping it below a certain level of charge from which it couldn't muster enough power to turn on the circuits to start charging even after replacement of the charging pin ![]() | ||
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