[jeepster]

Originally Posted by RaguHolla

For learning you can refer well known siteGlossary: Learn: Digital Photography Review

thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by shajufx

I want a DSLR, my budget is XXXk and my interest is XXXXX and my frequency of using will be XXXXX, then the answer will be crisp and to the point

my budget is 20k but stretchable up to 25k.
i mostly click vehicles & landscape.
i will be using it less frequently.

• DSLR ?
• lens ?
• charging in car?
• other accessories?
• tripod?

also it will stay with me for long period of time.

Originally Posted by Samurai

can you please do it yourself and PM the summary to me. Much obliged!

what i meant to say was, create a post with following points. (so that we dont have to go trough all pages)

• what lens to use for what type of pictures.
• what model of DSLR for newbies.
• what accessories to buy with DSLR. (for newbies)
• what model of DSLR for pros.
• answers of frequently asked questions by new users (or when upgrading from normal cameras to DSLR)

or simply create a different thread for above.

attached some pictures i shot today with sony DSC-w220

[arunsasi]

Originally Posted by rajatsingh78

Event - Dance performance
Situation - Focus lights with multiple colors
Issue - How to set white balance in this scenario, I generally do the preset mode in which I use a grey/white subject (wall,sheet of paper, etc.) to set the white balance

Guys...any solution?

I used to shoot for some Indian cultural groups in US a while back. The best way to shoot when light keeps changing color is to shoot raw and later go home and adjust the white balance to whatever you like.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by arunsasi

I used to shoot for some Indian cultural groups in US a while back. The best way to shoot when light keeps changing color is to shoot raw and later go home and adjust the white balance to whatever you like.

Take a shot of colour correction sheet (you can find details on most photography sites). To be more precise in colour correction take these shots in between dances. This would ensure that even if the sensor drifts your colours are correct.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Take a shot of colour correction sheet (you can find details on most photography sites). To be more precise in colour correction take these shots in between dances. This would ensure that even if the sensor drifts your colours are correct.

This sounds interesting can you please elaborate how to use the color correction sheets or if it is too long to explain please provide pointers from the web

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by shajufx

Agreed ! Back to digital era

Originally Posted by Samurai

Ok, I too think the debate has been stretched long enough to become stale. Let's get back to digital world.

already back but then just a rejoinder it is as Digital as it can be , An adapter with AF confirm chip is indeed digital , lens is anyway always optical so does not matter if it is 1 month or 50 year old , and focus motor is mechanical which is missing here.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by jeepster

...my budget is 20k but stretchable up to 25k.
i mostly click vehicles & landscape.i will be using it less frequently.

There is only one DSLR that falls within that budget, Canon 1000D with kit lens. If you stretch it upto 30k, you can consider Nikon D3100 which is rated to be the best beginner level DSLR launched couple of months back. Landscape will require a tripod which ranges from Rs.600 to any figure up. BUT, if your usage is less frequency, dont waste money on a DSLR, any P&S will serve all your purpose. DSLR is a money pit, you will tend to look for better lenses and better accessories throughout the ownership

Originally Posted by arunsasi

..The best way to shoot when light keeps changing color is to shoot raw and later go home and adjust the white balance to whatever you like.

I was going to suggest the same, I had tried different night shots under various lightings/colors, RAW gives the best potential to drag every shot to a single color tone without any effort than using color shades and stuff at the spot.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by jeepster

my budget is 20k but stretchable up to 25k.
i mostly click vehicles & landscape.
i will be using it less frequently.

• DSLR ?
• lens ?
• charging in car?
• other accessories?
• tripod?

also it will stay with me for long period of time.what i meant to say was, create a post with following points. (so that we dont have to go trough all pages)

• what lens to use for what type of pictures.
• what model of DSLR for newbies.
• what accessories to buy with DSLR. (for newbies)
• what model of DSLR for pros.
• answers of frequently asked questions by new users (or when upgrading from normal cameras to DSLR)

or simply create a different thread for above.

A low budget setup need not be low performance setup always.
Also I assume this 20K is your initial budget for first 2 years but over a long ownership period lets say 5 years you will invest more in buying lenses which you would like to retain and reuse if you upgrade your body after 4-5 years.


Before I post this longish advice my humble appeal to other posters
This is my personal opinion and this is what I would do if I have to buy DSLR all over again not just due to budget but this is what gives maximum possibilities. May be I am wrong and Nikon offers better but if you feel so make another post with suggestions and please do not turn it in to prolonged discussion and bore others like previous MF lens discussion.
Although such discussions are never boring for me personally and I welcome them

With this disclaimer let me begin.

There are several options first look for used gear typically Canon 450D or even 20D ( 20D is best body if you want to go MF way, I will explain this later)

If you do not fall in megapixel trap and can not find decent used gear then also there are so many options for new low budget DSLR body, If you do not take usual obvious route.

For a low budget but excellent setup I would suggest the following.

Camera Body
==========

1. A Canon 1000D ( EF-S mount) or an EVIL Olympus pen E-PL1 ( Micro 4/3 mount) depending on you want APS-C or Micro 4/3 or Pentax Kx ( If you need DSLR video as well)

(A) In case landscape + getting warranty service locally is priority choose in the order Canon 1000D , Pentax Kx ( PK mount) and then EVIL. ( Here Pentax Kx is lower then 1000D due to serviceability aspects and EVIL is lower due to landscape being a priority as effective focal length on Micro 4/3 is higher then APS-C

(B) If availability of gear locally and serviceability is criteria then Canon 1000D , Olympus Pen E-PL1 and then Pentax Kx.

(C) If buying new or used gear on internet is not a hindrance and you are OK with long shipping time then Pentax Kx , Olympus Pen E-PL1 and then Canon 1000D.

Please take note for a DSLR If you handle carefully and your usage is that of an amateur only service you will ever need mostly is Sensor cleaning in couple of years which can be a DIY or you can pay some money to any non-authorized camera repair shop to do it for you.

However if you are unfortunate enough to drop the gear on concrete or something like that best way is replacement and not service.

Buying Lenses
===========
You can always buy body with kit lens and live happily ever after with kit lens and need nothing more but if you are buying a DSLR that will never be the case.

To buy lens on budget go the MF way and buy cheaper older lens of any brand. For this purpose Micro 4/3 is best and EF-S comes next due to mount design as I explained in an older post on this very thread.

Please mind Manual Focus is not fully manual you still can have Auto Focus.
Also there is nothing to be ashamed of doing MF Canon still makes and sell some specialized MF lenses which are uber costly like Canon MP-E 65 mm with 1-5X macro, This is manual lens but baap of all macros because it gives 5X magnification and there are very few lens like this in market.

By Choosing old MF lens You loose
- Auto focus motor , Not needed if you are willing to use your left hand to rotate focus ring.

You gain :

- Lot of savings for example a MF 1.4 lens is 1/3 ed the price of a new lens with AF

- New possibilities , You are not constrained by what lenses manufacturer make you available. There is no shortage of lens from Canon and Nikon and some people criticize Sony Nex and Micro 4/3 for lack of lens choice. But by using adapter and any available brand this is no longer a short coming.

- Mind it with MF lens also you do not loose AF capability , You can always buy AF confirm adapter for a fraction of cost ( 800 -1500 Rs) and you need just one adapter for one non-native mount type.

Or if you do not trust AF confirm adapter you can buy pure mechanical adapters and replace the stock focusing Screen with a split prism focusing screen for Canon 1000D It is a 5 minutes DIY job and not too difficult for a jeeper.

By replacing focusing screen with split prism focusing screen , Spot metering is no longer available because the split micro-prism is at exact location from where spot metering is done but anyway that is not a hindrance as it was never there in 1000D in first place LOL.

Spot metering is helpful for birding but not a must , remember lot of people used to shoot bird pics with film SLR and still they do shoot birds with various cameras which do not have spot metering feature such as Canon 1000D.

If you replace Canon OE Focusing screen with split prism one other thing you loose are 9 illuminated dots on focusing screen as they get replaced by the image in split prism but rest of the AF mechanism indicator that is beep sound and green light at the corner works as it is.
This is not necessarily bad as you get more accuracy.

Now the icing on the case if you can get hold of a Canon 20D body and buy a 20$ split prism focusing screen on e-bay you do not loose any thing because in 20D the illuminated red dots were on a separate secondary screen.

Above suggestion is based on my 2 years exp with Canon 500D DSLR after multiple film and P&S cameras starting from Canon half frame when I was in 7th Standard.

Again No flames please

[rajatsingh78]

I think shooting in RAW and then later editing it is a more practical option, I don't understand how can a color correction sheet be any useful when the lights are constantly changing, and like Amit said, please elaborate more on the method.

What I feel is that color correction sheet is helpful when the light you are shooting is constant

[arunkk]

Originally Posted by amitk26

There are several options first look for used gear typically Canon 450D or even 20D ( 20D is best body if you want to go MF way, I will explain this later)

If you do not fall in megapixel trap and can not find decent used gear then also there are so many options for new low budget DSLR body, If you do not take usual obvious route.

For a low budget but excellent setup I would suggest the following.

Camera Body
==========

1. A Canon 1000D ( EF-S mount) or an EVIL Olympus pen E-PL1 ( Micro 4/3 mount) depending on you want APS-C or Micro 4/3 or Pentax Kx ( If you need DSLR video as well)

(A) In case landscape + getting warranty service locally is priority choose in the order Canon 1000D , Pentax Kx ( PK mount) and then EVIL. ( Here Pentax Kx is lower then 1000D due to serviceability aspects and EVIL is lower due to landscape being a priority as effective focal length on Micro 4/3 is higher then APS-C

(B) If availability of gear locally and serviceability is criteria then Canon 1000D , Olympus Pen E-PL1 and then Pentax Kx.

(C) If buying new or used gear on internet is not a hindrance and you are OK with long shipping time then Pentax Kx , Olympus Pen E-PL1 and then Canon 1000D.

Please take note for a DSLR If you handle carefully and your usage is that of an amateur only service you will ever need mostly is Sensor cleaning in couple of years which can be a DIY or you can pay some money to any non-authorized camera repair shop to do it for you.

However if you are unfortunate enough to drop the gear on concrete or something like that best way is replacement and not service.

Buying Lenses
===========
You can always buy body with kit lens and live happily ever after with kit lens and need nothing more but if you are buying a DSLR that will never be the case.

To buy lens on budget go the MF way and buy cheaper older lens of any brand. For this purpose Micro 4/3 is best and EF-S comes next due to mount design as I explained in an older post on this very thread.

Please mind Manual Focus is not fully manual you still can have Auto Focus.
Also there is nothing to be ashamed of doing MF Canon still makes and sell some specialized MF lenses which are uber costly like Canon MP-E 65 mm with 1-5X macro, This is manual lens but baap of all macros because it gives 5X magnification and there are very few lens like this in market.

By Choosing old MF lens You loose
- Auto focus motor , Not needed if you are willing to use your left hand to rotate focus ring.

You gain :

- Lot of savings for example a MF 1.4 lens is 1/3 ed the price of a new lens with AF

- New possibilities , You are not constrained by what lenses manufacturer make you available. There is no shortage of lens from Canon and Nikon and some people criticize Sony Nex and Micro 4/3 for lack of lens choice. But by using adapter and any available brand this is no longer a short coming.

- Mind it with MF lens also you do not loose AF capability , You can always buy AF confirm adapter for a fraction of cost ( 800 -1500 Rs) and you need just one adapter for one non-native mount type.

Or if you do not trust AF confirm adapter you can buy pure mechanical adapters and replace the stock focusing Screen with a split prism focusing screen for Canon 1000D It is a 5 minutes DIY job and not too difficult for a jeeper.

By replacing focusing screen with split prism focusing screen , Spot metering is no longer available because the split micro-prism is at exact location from where spot metering is done but anyway that is not a hindrance as it was never there in 1000D in first place LOL.

Spot metering is helpful for birding but not a must , remember lot of people used to shoot bird pics with film SLR and still they do shoot birds with various cameras which do not have spot metering feature such as Canon 1000D.

If you replace Canon OE Focusing screen with split prism one other thing you loose are 9 illuminated dots on focusing screen as they get replaced by the image in split prism but rest of the AF mechanism indicator that is beep sound and green light at the corner works as it is.
This is not necessarily bad as you get more accuracy.

Now the icing on the case if you can get hold of a Canon 20D body and buy a 20$ split prism focusing screen on e-bay you do not loose any thing because in 20D the illuminated red dots were on a separate secondary screen.

Above suggestion is based on my 2 years exp with Canon 500D DSLR after multiple film and P&S cameras starting from Canon half frame when I was in 7th Standard.

Again No flames please

amit you have explained all the concepts very well but I think it is overly complicated for a newbie in DSLR world.
For any newbie wanting to migrate to DSLR, my advice would be go for any canon or nikon with kit lens in your price band. You will not go wrong with any model from the above two. Later once you gain experience, you can explore more lens options.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by jeepster

is there any thread where i can get basic DSLR info without getting more confused.......mods please compile all the basic info in a single post so that we don't have to go trough all 384+ pages.

Originally Posted by amitk26

A low budget setup need not be low performance setup always.....Again No flames please

Amit, remember whatever you posted could be misunderstood as the summary of 384 pages by jeepster and I think he did not want to get confused..LOL

Originally Posted by arunkk

amit you have explained all the concepts very well but I think it is overly complicated for a newbie in DSLR world......

Exactly what I said, anything more than 3 lines will be confusing for a newbie in DSLR world unless he is ready to get confused !

[Ho0ligaN]

I am trying to get my head around this crop sensor vs FF discussions. Can someone tell me in simple terms why I can't take a similar landscape picture with an APS-C body + canon ef-s 10-22mm lens at 10mm to a FF body + canon ef 16-35mm at 16mm? I understand that the FOV will be same but the DOF will not be as it is a function of focal length (and the focal lengths are different). All that aside, since this is a landscape photograph and we are trying to get as much into focus as possible, to the human eye both pictures should look same? (I am not talking about using the same aperture setting on both setups, it has to be the optimum for that setup to get as much into focus and get a sharp picture).

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

I am trying to get my head around this crop sensor vs FF discussions. Can someone tell me in simple terms why I can't take a similar landscape picture with an APS-C body + canon ef-s 10-22mm lens at 10mm to a FF body + canon ef 16-35mm at 16mm? I understand that the FOV will be same but the DOF will not be as it is a function of focal .

To understand in simple terms forget about DOF for a moment and focus on simple optics.

Lets assume for simplicity that lens is a simple thin lens and you are projecting image on a screen , then as we all know from school level optics.

1/f = 1/u + 1/v.


Now suppose the image v is being projected such that it covers a larger FF screen ( Sensor) now if you change the screen size to smaller one then the either some portion of image will be lost as screen size is smaller (cropping) or for maintaining same image projection lens focal length need to change or object need to move appropriately (if focal length is fixed)

In a DSLR combination of both size of screen and position of screen is used to give acceptible level of angle of view with reduced sensor size.

For example in Canon DSLRs on APS-C camera the plane is moved little backwards and also the image is cropped and that crop factor is 1.5 , In Nikon the sensor size is same APS-C as on Canon but the distance between lens and sensor is little different so crop factor is 1.6

So whatever image was being projected on your screen using 50mm lens on FF on APS-C is similar to what an 80mm lens will project on FF.

Also for the actual calculations the thin lens formula for calculation is irrelevant as lens is thick lens with varying refractive index and things are much more complex then above.

[Flying_Lancer]

IMHO - with ever-improving sensor technology, crop sensors like APS-C (or APS-H of Canon) and 4/3rds or micro 4/3rds (Olympus/Panasonic) are going to be the future of digital photography...with lighter, cheaper and smaller lenses...

As regards brands...Nikon and Canon still rule the roost, but Pentax, Olympus Sony and Panasonic are not too far behind...they just need better availability, service (specific to Indian scene)...and more lenses! Sony alpha-series DSLRs are also good, but hard to find!

For a newbie, a recent Nikon/Canon (APS-C) body and a kit lens (and maybe a tripod) would do fine...as one learns...one can graduate to a couple more lenses, and maybe an external flash, based on the type of photography one indulges in...(one could even go in for a 'superzoom' like Fujifilm HS-10, Nikon P100, Panasonic FZ100 etc., if not interested in lugging around too much gear).

For the more serious amateurs, add a 'fast' 24 or 35mm (f/1.4 or f/1.8), a 55-200 or 70-300mm zoom to the kit lens...later on!

[RaguHolla]

Originally Posted by amitk26

For example in Canon DSLRs on APS-C camera the plane is moved little backwards and also the image is cropped and that crop factor is 1.5 , In Nikon the sensor size is same APS-C as on Canon but the distance between lens and sensor is little different so crop factor is 1.6

Its actually other way around. Nikon's Crop factor 1.5, Canon crop factor 1.6.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

I am trying to get my head around this crop sensor vs FF discussions. Can someone tell me in simple terms why I can't take a similar landscape picture.........DOF will not be as it is a function of focal length........since this is a landscape photograph and we are trying to get as much into focus as possible......

DOF is useful for portraits, macros etc, not much to do with Landscapes, because latter is mostly done with infinity having everything of the frame in focus. There are plenty of tests and cross reviews between DX vs FX cameras for landscapes. Real images would clarify your doubt than some theoretical explanation, as I did it in my 2 days training shooting with both bodies one after another.

As an example: a Nikon D300 with 10mm lens will be equal to a D3s with 15mm lens, but a DX body tend to distort the images wider than 14mm in most cases. Therefore regular landscape shooters always use FX body with a 12-24 or 16-35 zooms or 14mm or 16mm primes.

Originally Posted by amitk26

....Canon DSLRs on APS-C camera.... crop factor is 1.5 , In Nikon the sensor size is same but....... crop factor is 1.6

I heard Nikon is 1.5 and Canon is 1.6 ! Thanks for confusing