[skrao]

Relaxing after multiple long drives

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Not all feral cats are shy or mind their own business. It's all about their individual personalities. 7-8 years back I used to feed a stray Persian cat.

There is one tiny but important difference between a feral and a stray cat.

Stray cats hunt for food, sure, but they might also visit houses and demand food from kind hoomans. Given enough time & interactions, they might behave like a pet cat. A feral cat meanwhile is fully independent, and usually avoids interacting with humans. Unlike a stray cat, this fellow comes home only to rest on the (cool + super safe) balcony. He does not demand treats all the time.

Vets always advised not to feed even diluted milk to cats. So i give them boiled eggs, boiled chicken, boiled rice etc.

The only time he demands something is when it is hot outside and he is thirsty. He does not drink water from a bowl. But milk mixed with water seems to quench his thirst. So other than this, what other options do I have? Has to be (something + water)

While I'm aware of cats and its supposed lactose intolerance, I think this advice is mostly for indoor cats that are dependent on humans for 100% of its diet. Outdoor/stray cats have a much varied diet, and whatever milk is fed to them will be a tiny percentage of its diet.

We have had many cats for decades (that's why my teambhp Id is 'smartcat') and they were all healthy despite being on part diet of dairy products (and idli/dosa/upittu/chapati/poori/pakodas ). And yes, the key factor was that all of them were outdoor cats that used to disappear from home after sunset, and come back home the next day.

The cat looks like a tiger trainer.

Some more pics of this beaut:

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Some more pics of this beauty:

Attachment 2581445

Attachment 2581446

Attachment 2581447

The pics are fabulous. The cat is indeed a gem. Reminds me of the stray Persian cat that I mentioned earlier.

I stopped feeding stray animals milk completely on the advice of vets. But yes, a tiny percentage of the diet might not be harmful, as you said. If luckily, this particular cat is lactose tolerant then the risk is even more minimised. I quickly take curd and mix it up with water in a mixer and feed that instead. Sometimes they drink, sometimes they don't. Vets have always advised to feed diluted curd instead of milk. But whatever quenches his thirst. I even feed soured milk or whey when available. I always have chicken broth in the freezer with me due to my dog so that is also alright I suppose.

Ferals and strays have different habits, reactions and personas, I concur.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Cats and the milk thing

Basic fact: Cats do not need milk.

When I learned that, thirty or forty years ago, I stopped giving milk to cats.

They don't need it; their bodies have to adapt to digest it. I don't know how bad it is for them, but it is not good. Neither human nor feline bodies are properly equipped to digest cow's milk. It's perfect for calves!

I guess, what happens to cats is much the same as what happens to us. Unless we have some severe intolerance, if we are fed it from an early age, we grow to like and "need" it. If cats are fed it from early in life, they will continue to demand it. If they are not, they will be perfectly happy with water.

House cats, pet cats, stray cats, feral cats: they are all cats. There isn't a difference, except in behaviour. Feral cats never had a human thinking that cats that get the cream are happy cats and giving them milk from kitten onwards. So they do not ask it, and may not even have any attraction for a bowl of it if offered. They never got the habit, that's all.

So... If you have a milk-drinking cat, you are probably stuck with it: I guess it is going to go on being a milk-drinking cat. If you get a new kitten, don't get it started. Just give fresh water every day.

There is no need for a cat to drink milk, and it is not good for it.

As I mentioned, the exact same applies to us. How can a substance that is secreted explicitly for the purpose of feeding a creature's young be needed by another creature. Or even, an adult of the same species. It's all wrong.

I have an odd relationship with milk. As a child, I really disliked plain cow milk, unless it was sweetened or flavoured. Probably natural: apparently human milk is sweeter than cow milk. Somehow, I made myself like it. Fifty years later, I start every day with almost a litre (two 450ml mugs) of chai, maybe 30-40% milk, and end every day with the same mug filled with 100%-milk cocoa.

If I had not been given milk as a kitten, my life might be different now

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Basic fact: Cats do not need milk.
When I learned that, thirty or forty years ago, I stopped giving milk to cats.

Around the time commercial cat food was invented you mean? How sure are we that this research is not backed by expensive cat food manufacturers?

(just kidding)

if we are fed it from an early age, we grow to like and "need" it. If cats are fed it from early in life, they will continue to demand it. House cats, pet cats, stray cats, feral cats: they are all cats. So they do not ask it, and may not even have any attraction for a bowl of it if offered. They never got the habit, that's all.

My take is: A cat that never been fed with milk in its lifetime, will probably like it if it is offered. That's because all dairy products (including milk) can be classified as "FAT". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat

Anyway, the problem is how to quench the thirst of a cat that does NOT drink water from a bowl. Any solutions?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Around the time commercial cat food was invented you mean? How sure are we that this research is not backed by expensive cat food manufacturers?

(just kidding)

You mean the manufacturers who make cat food that appeals to people?

My take is: A cat that never been fed with milk in its lifetime, will probably like it if it is offered.

It's my experience that they won't be much bothered about it. So is the cats and cream thing a complete myth? Obviously, I never tried cream on my no-milk cats, but I think it might be. Maybe.

Anyway, the problem is how to quench the thirst of a cat that does NOT drink water from a bowl. Any solutions?

My cats here drink far more water than my London cats used to. This means one of two things: their kidneys are not good, or, the climate means that they need to. In general, cats get their fluid from their food and don't drink a lot of additional water. But they drink some and it should always be available.

The only time he demands something is when it is hot outside and he is thirsty. He does not drink water from a bowl. But milk mixed with water seems to quench his thirst. So other than this, what other options do I have? Has to be (something + water)

Carry on with this. He's got the milk habit somewhere, so there shouldn't be a need to change him. Either way, Dogma is not for cats!

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Carry on with this. He's got the milk habit somewhere, so there shouldn't be a need to change him. Either way, Dogma is not for cats!

So I did my own research on this:

Now, lactose is not like arsenic or mercury or cyanide. A milligram of lactose will not cause any health issues in cats. So the question is what is the lactose tolerance level of a typical adult cat? This research report answers all the questions:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Milk_for_cats

- All adult cats can ingest upto 6g of lactose per day without problems
- 10g to 16g lactose ingestion per day is known to cause indigestion issues
- 6g of lactose equals 130 ml of milk. So 130 ml of milk per day will not cause health issues.
- To account for sensitivity of different weight cats to lactose, upto 85 ml of milk can be given per day to any cat, without any risk.

And moreover, milk in India is already diluted with water at source (wink, wink). In addition to that, we have always added about 25% water to milk served to cats.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

My take is: A cat that never been fed with milk in its lifetime, will probably like it if it is offered. That's because all dairy products (including milk) can be classified as "FAT". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat

It may or may not. Having lived in various geographies, cats and dogs tend to like and dislike milk with a huge variance. Some take it as a treat, some dislike it to the core and some drinking it all the way to the last lick because the animal did not possibly have anything to eat for days at a stretch.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Anyway, the problem is how to quench the thirst of a cat that does NOT drink water from a bowl. Any solutions?

I have posted earlier. I give them diluted curd (mixed with water in a mixer). Lassi, chhaaj, yoghurt, pick your term.
Soured milk work fantastically too. When making paneer at home, the remaining water, whey is another alternative.

But we humans tend to apply readymade solutions to everything. And milk is easily available, right off the packet it can be poured to the bowl.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

So I did my own research on this:

Now, lactose is not like arsenic or mercury or cyanide. So a milligram of lactose will not cause any health issues in cats. So the question is what is the lactose tolerance level of a typical adult cat? This research report answers all the questions:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Milk_for_cats

- All adult cats can ingest upto 6g of lactose per day without problems
- 10g to 16g lactose ingestion per day is known to cause indigestion issues
- 6g of lactose equals 130 ml of milk. So 130 ml of milk per day will not cause health issues.
- To account for higher sensitivity of some cats to lactose ingestion, upto 85 ml of milk can be given per day, without any risk.

And moreover, milk in India is already diluted with water at source (wink, wink). In addition to that, we have always added about 25% water to milk served to cats.

Speak to a vet, he or she will disagree. Moreover, a hungry animal tends to eat anything that comes to it when famishing. Including polybags. We can never be sure whether a stray visited us out of hunger or out of friendliness and a desire to just show up and meet.
As per the link provided by you cats generally like milk. I have known more cats disliking milk than liking it. It depends upon which geography the cats live in.

I learnt it the hard way that milk is bad for cats and dogs when my own dog started to suffer. I did not earlier believe that milk was bad for them. So I used to feed my puppy with milk till she was 6 months old. The vet told me not to feed anymore as she has grown and now will lack the enzyme to breakdown milk. I still continued to feed her milk as she liked it, although I lessened the quantity considerably. Earlier it used to be Amul Gold homogenised packet of 1 litre full fat per day (this was the only good milk available where I used to live then). Then I slowed it down to 500 ml per day. Huge mistake. Should have listened to the vet. After another 6-9 months I completely stopped the milk feed. In a matter of few days the stomach problems suddenly began to disappear and the need for deworming decreased. The fur coat started to retain the thickness and shine and the excessive shedding, the continuous itching stopped and disappeared almost 100%. A clean bowl of water which is filtered properly goes a long way to keep the health of dogs and cats in great shape too. Tap water is extremely improper for them as it is for humans.

A discussion with the vet made me realise that had I stopped feeding milk completely when the doc had told me to, the problems would have not occured in the first place or would have disappeared with small dose of medication. This was 2019-20 and I now give her milk only once in a long while that too in miniscule quantities. Ice cream too she likes but only give her once a month or so.

Milk to the cats or dogs really increases the risk of gastro problems, diarrhea, worms etc. Alas, the animals are speechless to state their problems by themselves.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

I have posted earlier. I give them diluted curd (mixed with water in a mixer). Lassi, chhaaz, yoghurt, pick your term.
Soured milk work fantastically too. When making paneer at home, the remaining water, whey is another alternative. But we humans tend to apply readymade solutions to everything. And milk is easily available, right off the packet it can be poured to the bowl. .

We always have curds ready at home actually. Articles say curd has lower lactose percentage than milk. Will try that next time

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thank you for the research, Smartcat. And Fuldagap for further comments.

To sum up my unchanged feelings: if your cat is already a milk drinker, and there are no ill effects, fine. Give it milk. Making sure that pure water is available. If you have a new kitten, simply do not get it started on milk: there is no need and no benefit.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Thank you for the research, Smartcat. And Fuldagap for further comments.

To sum up my unchanged feelings: if your cat is already a milk drinker, and there are no ill effects, fine. Give it milk. Making sure that pure water is available. If you have a new kitten, simply do not get it started on milk: there is no need and no benefit.

Initially kittens and puppies require milk. If the animal is an orphan, they need some replacement. Normal milk suffices as per vet, diluted.

Initially the milk requirement from the mother is so much so that orphaned kittens suprisingly drink milk from stray motherly dogs too whenever possible. I can share a video from approx 2 years back when I captured it on my phone a cat/kitten drinking milk from a bitch.

Gradually, the kitten or puppy need to be fed other foods while decreasing milk intake.
This is what the vet told me when i started with my puppy few years back. For a puppy, feeding milk till 6 months of age is advised.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Anyway, the problem is how to quench the thirst of a cat that does NOT drink water from a bowl. Any solutions?

Cats generally do not like plain water from what I have read and heard.

My suggestion would be to use "wet food" as snacks as that in itself would contain water or liquid. From commercially available food, Purina (or any better brand from Mars) has these wet food pouches, and you could add a splash of water on top. I used them for feeding the kittens in office.

Better still would home cooked wet food as in a mishmash of protein and veg cooked to a slurry like consistency. Of course The Highness could sniff and look away and render all this moot.

[2nd_gear_7krpm]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Cats generally do not like plain water from what I have read and heard.

I disagree. My cat used to gulp more water than myself on some days! And he was just refusing to have water in small bowls, instead I had to keep it in large open bath mug. That too keep it in full everyday. What I have later figured out was, cats don't like if their whiskers touch any objects, so they prefer open or large containers.

I have started to keep clean tap water for stray cats in my parking.

[Iyencar]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Anyway, the problem is how to quench the thirst of a cat that does NOT drink water from a bowl. Any solutions?

Try changing the bowl to a different shaped one. The one in the pic is a bit shallow and wide. Some cats have very sensitive whiskers. If the shape doesn’t work try plastic instead of metal. If that also doesn’t work then get a small pet fountain. They’re really cheap on Amazon.

[VWAllstar]

Need a small help My pet Dog (Maltipoo Female 14 Months old) is having trouble opening her eyes. Yesterday we gave her a bath with the usual Himalaya Erina Shampoo. It had more lather than normal as we used little more shampoo than we usually do. I generally scrub her face gently with hands and wash it by pouring water. She has had this bath every Sunday since a year now and there were no issues. This time, since yesterday she is not able to open her eyes. We tried ourselves however the lids seem to be stuck (just like how it happens to us when we use a cleaning eye drop) Parents are insisting to take her to a Vet but knowing them, there is a possibility of me being taken for a ride (past experiences) Let me know if anyone of you have had this problem and what was the solution.