[rohanshivi1]

Things you should consider buying a Used EV

Recently I had some friends & colleagues here in Nordics considering buying a used electric car (around 4–10 years old) since there are decade old cars available now like Nissan Leaf or Model S, and online, many people seem to be worried about expensive issues after the warranty expires. There is some justification for this, as I see it, although some risks seem to be exaggerated online. Therefore, I have tried to rank the risks below according to a combination of probability and cost. This applies to electric cars in general; in practice, it varies greatly by model, so you need to check which issues affect the models you see available in the used car market.

1. PTC Heater / Air Heat Pump These seem to break down sooner or later on many models and are unfortunately often surprisingly expensive to fix. The combination of cost and probability makes me rank this as problem #1.
2. Onboard Charger Especially electric cars coming out of French & Czech stable (Like Citroen or Skoda), but also some others, have had a lot of trouble with the onboard charger. Expensive to fix – however, one would hope that these problems are largely addressed under warranty. Possibly a transient problem, so maybe this should be ranked lower in the future.
3. Various Suspension Problems The weight of electric cars and sometimes undersized components and other suspension problems common. Usually relatively cheap to fix.
4. Moisture Ingress / Condensation in High-Voltage Battery In a country like India, I find this difficult to assess, but it can be costly on older electric cars. Will rust and dirt make moisture a problem specially in coastal cities.
5. Degradation / Weak Cells in High-Voltage Battery Battery replacements due to degradation or weak cells are a risk that is often exaggerated in my opinion. However, there are probably some models where this is a real risk, mainly older models but also, for example, Volkswagen has had some problems with degradation on new models.
6. Brakes Risk of trouble as the brakes (depending on the model) sometimes become too inactive due to regen, but usually cheap to fix. Worth keeping an eye on, especially the rear brakes.
7. Dents/Damage to Battery Housing/Undercarriage You don't want to damage the battery housing as it can lead to a increasing issues and be very expensive to fix. Important to inspect when buying a used electric car. If you know when the damage occurred, it should generally be covered by insurance. Uncommon but expensive.
8. Screen/Computer/Electronics Here I am a bit unsure: problems seem to be quite rare, but various issues have occurred. Difficult to assess how these will function when the car gets old. Can be moderately expensive? Includes trouble with handles in this category, which has been unexpectedly common.
9. Rust Rust occurs, of course, as with all cars. Generally, I find that today's cars are very rust-resistant, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
10. 12-Volt Battery Wears out easily on electric cars, but cheap to replace.
11. Increased Tire Wear Electric car tires wear out slightly faster than ICE cars due to high weight / rapid acceleration / regen. But all tires wear out, even on fossil fuel cars – the additional cost should be small.
12. Drive Unit / Motor Problems Uncommon for the drive unit to malfunction, but it can occur (e.g., noise) on some models. Expensive to fix, but ranks low on the list as this works well on most models.

[Jeroen]

Thanks for this list. Do you have suggestions? How members can actually check these things for themselves?

Jeroen

[Sumedik]

I do not think this list is customized for India at all. Here the most important thing would be to check battery health and we need detailed information for different brands on how this can be done by users themselves without taking the car to ASC.

[GTO]

I tend to avoid over-complication, and prefer to simplify things.

My advice:

1. Buy the latest EV you can buy. The technology and product become better & more mature each year. I wouldn't recommend anyone buying a 3 - 5 year old EV today.

2. Look at the manufacturer's track record in EVs. With the 1st-gen products, you will be part of the R&D.

3. Take the longest possible extended warranty that you can get your hands on.

4. Avoid the duds = current example would be the e-C3 from Citroen. It's barely selling 60 units a month, the dealership experiences can be bad (no profits = unhappy dealers), the product has compromises.

5. Consider the manufacturer's track record. BYD & MG have lots of experience in EVs - even the ZS EV was such a sorted product for its time. Tata's EVs are great, but be ready for niggles. Every Ioniq 5 owner I have met is super-duper happy with the car.

6. Personally, even as a certified lover of pre-worshipped cars, I would avoid Used EVs. Even if you have a budget of 15 lakhs, there are plenty of great choices (Punch, Windsor, Nexon). If you go higher up, things only become better (Curvv, Mahindra BE 6, Creta & more).

Whatever the budget, there are great brand-new EVs at every price point. I've never bought a used laptop or smartphone, and would generally avoid used EVs too (unless it's an EQS or Taycan at half the price).

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by rohanshivi1

Things you should consider buying a Used EV

The main benefit of a used ICE car is that one avoids the high road tax and accessories expenses that are front loaded at initial purchase. For EVs, there isn't much of a high road tax; and relatively the EVs are better loaded with accessories so one doesn't spend that much (e.g. a better in-car entertainment); so eventually you don't get much of a great 'deal' from a used EV.

Also looking at the EV ownership on the forum (and off the forum); EVs cars see a lot of mileage / running vis-a-vis their ICE counterparts. So even if you end up buying a almost brand new EV; chances are high the car already has seen high mileage.

Even used car dealers aren't getting their hands dirty into the EV cars. Adding to the excellent points @GTO has highlighted; I would say a newer EV model makes more sense as compared to a used EV. Let the EV market mature.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Also looking at the EV ownership on the forum (and off the forum); EVs cars see a lot of mileage / running vis-a-vis their ICE counterparts. So even if you end up buying a almost brand new EV; chances are high the car already has seen high mileage.

Even used car dealers aren't getting their hands dirty into the EV cars.

I would say a newer EV model makes more sense as compared to a used EV. Let the EV market mature.

Originally Posted by GTO

I tend to avoid over-complication, and prefer to simplify things.

My advice:

1. Buy the latest EV you can buy. The technology and product become better & more mature each year.

3. Take the longest possible extended warranty that you can get your hands on.


5. Consider the manufacturer's track record. BYD & MG have lots of experience in EVs - even the ZS EV was such a sorted product for its time. Tata's EVs are great, but be ready for niggles. Every Ioniq 5 owner I have met is super-duper happy with the car.

6. Personally, even as a certified lover of pre-worshipped cars, I would avoid Used EVs.
would generally avoid used EVs too (unless it's an EQS or Taycan at half the price).

@ninjatalli:
1. Not all EVs see high mileage. (Ive just hit 6000kms in a year…and there are many folks like me.)

2. Corporate Used car dealers like Spinny have recently begun dealing in EVs. I personally like Spinny because I have sold one car and bought another one through them (more or less back to back, last year) and my experience with their processes from both ‘buy’ side and ‘sell side’ has been much better than the ‘standard neighbourhood type dealers (other than T S Mahalingam and Sons in Madras who are 100% trustworthy) and in my view Spinny is way better than OLX and Cars24 and so on and so forth.

@GTO:
1. Yes EV technology is maturing rapidly and new things are overhauling the old at a frenetic pace. EVs battery tech is evolving massively and the lifecycles are shortening incredibly, hence the likening of EV’s to white goods and appliances.

2. Yes to the longest Warranty possible and Insurance always with Bumper to Bumper coverage, Return to Invoice and Battery Protect as Standard.

3. Indeed, as I too have remarked in many threads, both MG and BYD have excellent track records. I will add Kia, Hyundai and Suzuki to this list because they all have thorough processes and are making a strong push on new EV’s in India. As a happy owner of a Hyundai Kona EV, I will add this vehicle to your example of the Hyundai Ioniq5.

4. I too wholly and completely appreciate the financial sense and prudence in buying second-hand/ pre-owned/ used cars vs new. (I won’t say ‘Pre-Worshipped’ because the expression seems a bit hyperbolic.)

5. Apart from the Mercedes EQS and Porsche Taycan which you have pointed out as examples, I would most certainly state that the Kia EV6 AWD, Hyundai Ioniq5 and Hyundai Kona are 100% worthy of consideration, as are the BYD E6 (if privately owned), Seal, Sealion 7 and the MG ZS long range, Comet and Windsor, whenever they do hit the used market, because all these are solidly engineered cars with good technology and batteries and build quality etc.

6. Of course, it would be preferable to buy any of these from a known source -(friend/ family) or a professional dealer like Spinny or a Kia or Hyundai or BYD or MG Dealer, subject to their warranties.

7. As in the case of any used car purchase, I would look to upping the insurance coverage aspects, Extended Warranty, IDV, Engine/ Battery Protect, Return to Invoice, Bumper to Bumper, etc.

8.Mahindra and Tata, yes I can see that they are making valiant efforts in the EV space and I admire them both for it. However, I will only perhaps if at all, consider their products once Gen 2 and 3 arrive and after they get their servicing right. The concern point with them is their consistency of processes and quality, or the lack of these.

9. Maybe in a few years time from now, there may come, an MG Cyberster AWD in the used market…. I will certainly consider it as a possibility, if I too am in the market at the same time.

I used to say jocularly that EV’s are the work of the Devil.

But I have come to love them just as much as I love ICE cars.

The long and short of it is that I will definitely say Aye, to anyone considering buying a lightly Used EV.

It makes good sense to buy these, provided the suggestions above are taken into account, as indeed from the standpoint of prudence, they certainly ought to be, when purchasing any used car.

[rohanshivi1]

Originally Posted by GTO

I tend to avoid over-complication, and prefer to simplify things.

My advice:...

I completely agree with your points. And yes in case of pre-worshipped EV's, things get a bit complicated and it's definitely a better option to buy new and also to use it as much as possible before selling. I have also been asked "when to sell" and my reply have always been: use it as much as possible and as long as possible. I have a plan to use my Model X Plaid till its battery dies.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Thanks for this list. Do you have suggestions? How members can actually check these things for themselves?

Jeroen

Good question! I'll compile a list of "How to"
Easiest & quickest one: Battery Health Degradation
There are companies trying to solve this just like the degradation in our phone. It's just bit more complicated in a way as every cell needs to be reporting the logs and the final degradation is calculated within the BMS. There are apps like Tessie that do that in case of Teslas but they are not always reliable. Now since I mentioned Tesla, there's a Service Mode on them which tells the exact battery health and degradation. Tesla claims that if you have battery degradation of more than 30% then the main HV Unit can be replaced under warranty.

Originally Posted by Sumedik

I do not think this list is customized for India at all. Here the most important thing would be to check battery health and we need detailed information for different brands on how this can be done by users themselves without taking the car to ASC.

Like that! How is that not for India? Can you please explain a bit? We have El cars in india that drive and have same technical dynamics like everywhere. May be if you can elaborate, I can look more details to it.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

The main benefit of a used ICE car is that one avoids the high road tax and accessories expenses that are front loaded at initial purchase. For EVs, there isn't much of a high road tax; and relatively the EVs are better loaded with accessories so one doesn't spend that much (e.g. a better in-car entertainment); so eventually you don't get much of a great 'deal' from a used EV.

Also looking at the EV ownership on the forum (and off the forum); EVs cars see a lot of mileage / running vis-a-vis their ICE counterparts. So even if you end up buying a almost brand new EV; chances are high the car already has seen high mileage.

Even used car dealers aren't getting their hands dirty into the EV cars. Adding to the excellent points @GTO has highlighted; I would say a newer EV model makes more sense as compared to a used EV. Let the EV market mature.

I almost almost agree to what you are saying. The only point is "what if you want to buy a used/pre worshipped one".

Note from Support: Please use multi-quote when responding to multiple posts at once. Thanks.

[rohanshivi1]

Originally Posted by rohanshivi1

I completely agree with your points. And yes in case of pre-worshipped EV's, things get a bit complicated and it's definitely a better option to buy new and also to use it as much as possible before selling. I have also been asked "when to sell" and my reply have always been: use it as much as possible and as long as possible. I have a plan to use my Model X Plaid till its battery dies.

Sorry didn’t get the point, isn’t what the whole discussion here? About pre worshipped cars?

[mh09ad5578]

I feel with maturing EV tech, used EVs make a greater sense than ICE. There's hardly anything that can go wrong on a ASC serviced 2-3 years old EV that can't be fixed in warranty. Low mileage examples would make great buys. It would be like a year old flagship smartphone, almost as good as one new at half the price. I am certainly looking to buy a pre-worshipped top end Curve EV 55 with say 30 to 50k kms on the odo for 10 to 12 lakhs three years down the line. With current poor resale values of EVs this doesn't seem to be such a far fetched dream.

[antz.bin]

For a car to be desirable pre-owned, it has to be desirable new.

The only EV I truly have some level of desire for is the ZS EV. Anything else better than the ZS is far too niche. Even today, the seemingly outdated interiors notwithstanding, it is a solid option amongst the competition.

It has the space and range of the latest Creta EV
It charges as fast as the Curvv.EV, the fastest charging Made in India EV prior to the Mahindra BEV twins.
The base model costs the same as a smaller battery Creta 42 base variant so has better range.
It is also adequately fast.

Once the 2 Mahindras are here with their smaller battery, the ZS prices will drop. Making older examples even better value.

Given a choice, I would maybe opt for one around 12-13 lakh.

But then 14 lakh gives me a brand new XUV400 / Windsor / Nexon 45 so it is a tough one to call.

The pace at which EVs have evolved and prices have come down, used EVs will find it harder and harder to find buyers. But if you do have an EV, will it even make any sense to sell?

The drive is smooth
The car is fast *enough*
It costs next to nothing to run
Why are you even selling?

So not only do the buyer have other options, the sellers might as well be content with their cars. Any EVs on the market that are selling their 25 lakh EV for 12 lakh are either from upgraders or if the car is a lemon and there is something horribly wrong with the car. The latter is much more likely.

The primary reason why we bought pre-owned was to get a great deal. With EVs, you want a better deal, just get one 6 months later.