[shyampsunder]

Originally Posted by velocirpator

Mod note: Posts merged. Back to back post, use Multi Quote [Quote +] instead. Thanks.

Happy to answer any questions you might have!

That's actually a great idea. I've realized that 16A charging is a good thing to get accustomed to, as its literally the same idea as leaving your smartphone to charge overnight -- totally agree with the views here (Why a cheap & simple 15A plug is just fine for home-charging your Electric Car)! I'm trying to work this out with our condo management, although it'll potentially need to be done at scale (~1,000 cars in our society across five towers), given the expected rise in EV adoption. I'm wondering if there are any experts who can advise the condo management on the correct way to potentially fit hundreds of of 16A points to parking bays (some of which aren't adjacent to a wall, so floor-sunk sockets perhaps? Managing increased power requirements to the supply grid etc?)

Assuming that every vehicle in the society will become an EV overnight and planning for it is equivalent to older societies preventing one house to install an AC because if every house installs an AC in every room, the capacity of the transformer is not sufficient. It's a problem to be tackled when the society gets there.

In our society, we have 100+ EVs and this is how it is managed:

Society sets the safety and installation standards.
1. No haphazard wiring in the basement. Wiring trays have been installed overhead where all the common utility wiring is already routed through.
2. All wiring should be concealed through ducts. No exposed wires.
3. Wires should be of 4 sq mm for 15A. Nothing lower even if the actual load may only be 5A or lower especially in the case of 2Ws.
4. Installation is supervised by an apartment electrician for meeting the safety norms of the society. The work should be done by the OEM or externally hired electrician
5. RCBO is to be installed with every EV charger for additional safety. This is overkill in my opinion but better safe than sorry I guess.
6. Power will be drawn from the vehicle owner's house sanctioned load. If that is not sufficient, it's on the owner to apply for higher load from the DISCOM. For a 15A socket which usually draws 2-2.5 kW it's usually not an issue if you already have 5+ kW in sanctioned load.
7. All costs for the installation and equipment to be borne by the vehicle owner.

I don't think installing a 15A socket in every parking slot will fly given the costs and complexities of it. What I have seen societies do is that they reach out to all residents asking if they would like a power socket at their parking. Many ICE owners opt in as well because it becomes easier to run equipment like vacuums to clean their cars. A bulk installation can be done with costs being split between everyone who opted for it.

Originally Posted by sunilch

2) What happens to the battery after say 7-8 years? Do we need to get it replaced by BYD and at what cost? This might be a common question for all EV makes I guess.

It's the same as what happens to an ICE vehicle after it runs out of the manufacturer warranty. Do we plan for engine and transmission replacements after warranty? Obviously not, because the engine just doesn't suddenly die the moment the warranty is done.

Batteries especially LFPs are expected to outlast the shell of the car. That is why OEMs who sell both ICE and EVs don't offer default warranties of 8 years on their ICE vehicles but are offering 8 years or in some-cases unlimited warranty on their EVs.

The more relevant question which people don't seem to be asking is what will the value of the battery be at the end of life of the car. It can be used for second life applications like grid storage where the reduced capacity degradation is not a deal breaker.

[avingodb]

Originally Posted by Omkar

While the A-pillar is thick, overall visibility is good:
Attachment 2673117

I was a bit intrigued with this one. Is that an AC vent on the door?

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

Batteries especially LFPs are expected to outlast the shell of the car. That is why OEMs who sell both ICE and EVs don't offer default warranties of 8 years on their ICE vehicles but are offering 8 years or in some-cases unlimited warranty on their EVs.

I'm no expert on LiIon batteries - but the bodyshell will really have to be bad quality to die before a battery pack I suspect. As of now - considering we are talking of a nascent and evolving tech - I guess only time will tell.

That said - I also feel the present warranties are a bit too "aggressive" on EVs - because without them - the sales will be 0. Carmakers don't have an option but to give such long duration warranties to ensure footfall at the showrooms. We'll need to see how things settle in coming years once the industry gets into a more "stable" mode rather than the present pathfinding mode.

Also - as a wise gentleman recently pointed out to me on a Jetta owners' group elsewhere - the EVs are as pricey as they are today, not because the input cost is high - but probably because the carmakers are taking an advance payment of the next 2 warranty-replacement batteries from us already baked in the car price . That's why the warranties are so generous and honoured without hassle. IIRC - he is an EV owner too, and was giving an honest personal opinion, which seems quite logical. (Yeah ironic too - that we were discussing about EVs on a 10yr old diesel engine owners' group ).


(On a side track - there are already regular occurrences of EV battery warranties being declined by the now well established electric scooter makers in India, especially if the 2nd battery fails. I won't be surprised if this trend comes into cars too eventually once things heat up sufficiently.)

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by Simple_car

Congratulations on your acquisition. I use these cars often but as taxis. I am pretty impressed with the package overall, but there are 2 things which have consistently soured my experience. Wanted to know if things have improved or they remain the same:

1. The glass transmits all the suns harsh heat and IR rays, leading to a very unpleasant experience for those sitting on the windows. The large glasshouse only compounds the experience.

2. The seats had inadequate cushioning (more like you sit on a very old sofa which sinks), and especially poor lumbar support.

Would like to know your experience.

Thanks,
Simple_car

I took a TD of the eMAX 7 today and here is my experience:

1) I am 6'2" and the driver seat is not comfortable for me in terms of the width and also thigh support. Hence after my 6-7 KM drive in regular traffic, I felt I will not be able to drive it for long.

2) TD car was the base variant with captain seats. Getting to the third row was difficult for me in this case since the middle seats don't tumble. Otherwise the third row as decent for my seating, barring the headroom which is indequate for me in 90% of the cases.

3) I faced a different issue with the gear knob. I was able to move from R to D and vice versa easily but the N (in between R and D) wasn't getting selected at all for me despite multiple tries. The showroom driver was able to do so but not me. I had to press the P button when in D or just directly move to R when needed. Strange aspect this is but seems to be due to the small size of the selector.

For reference, I currently drive Honda BR-V and Skoda Laura, both of which have wonderful driving ergonomics.

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

It's the same as what happens to an ICE vehicle after it runs out of the manufacturer warranty. Do we plan for engine and transmission replacements after warranty? Obviously not, because the engine just doesn't suddenly die the moment the warranty is done.

Batteries especially LFPs are expected to outlast the shell of the car. That is why OEMs who sell both ICE and EVs don't offer default warranties of 8 years on their ICE vehicles but are offering 8 years or in some-cases unlimited warranty on their EVs.

The more relevant question which people don't seem to be asking is what will the value of the battery be at the end of life of the car. It can be used for second life applications like grid storage where the reduced capacity degradation is not a deal breaker.

How is it same as your alternative question? We don't plan for engine/transmission replacement simply because we know the process of how to maintain them and these components/parts are not expected to degrade in performance after X number of cycles, if maintained as per the recommendation.

We replace or overhaul the engines only in case there is some manufacturing issue with them or encounter a serious accident, both of which are different scenarios.

My question was for a simple case of batter capacity degradation after X number of years or charging cycles which is analogous to Mobile phone batteries. In case of Mobiles, we can get the same replaced at independent shops or company service centers once you are not satisfied with battery performance. The question was related to what to do in such cases since replacing the car battery is unlikely to be an easy task here and the cost might be high, which should be taken into account when planning to keep the car for 10 or more years.

Moreover, the long-term warranties on battery and motor that we see now are simply there to douse the anxiety that buyers will have. How they honor the same is yet to be seen. Over time when sales pick up, such long term warranties shall come down for sure. For example, we do see car warranties for shorter period now than before right?

[velocirpator]

Originally Posted by avingodb

I was a bit intrigued with this one. Is that an AC vent on the door?

I believe those are the de-fogger vents for the front windows, to better view the ORVMs.

[velocirpator]

Originally Posted by velocirpator

We’ve always been a two-car household, with a 7-seater for the heavy lifting and airport pickup duties, and a hatchback for the convenience and fun. This past winter season in NCR hasn’t been kind, with mad-high AQI resulting in the baffling and silly GRAP rules, leaving a trail of confusion with daily drives...

I decided to check out fast charging on the eMAX 7 for the first time (for the past couple of weeks I've been using the portable 16A charger that delivers a maximum of 3.3 kW when I park it at office.) And so I depleted the car to 52 percent SOC, and headed to a Statiq charging station on the way home this evening.

The station was tucked into a business complex, alongside the exit lane, with dedicated parking for EVs. The entire process was intuitive and super simple, plugging in the CCS 2 plug into the car's port, firing up the app, selecting the mode of power delivery (percentage SOC, power units, or time -- I chose to add 40% of charge), after topping up the Statiq app with some cash the charging started quite seamlessly. The Statiq app is pretty well designed and intuitive, and updates in real time. So I headed out to find a coffee shop and kill about 30 mins. Different matter that this particular business park had just a bunch of glorified tea and snack shops -- nothing really fancy.



I tracked the charging, and clocked it delivering a consistent 57 kW of power, enabling the car to juice up from 52 to 86 percent in about 34 minutes. For my car and the way I've been generally driving it, that would translate to about 150 Kms of driving range. And the damages for this particular charge cycle (including the hefty 18 percent GST) was Rs 580. Not bad at all.

I plan to fast charger the car once a month or so, but office charging setup with the 16 A portable charger will suffice for the most part. A couple of weeks into EV ownership, and I couldn't be happier.

[vijayinvites]

@velocirpator, what insurance did you take? Is it from the showroom or from outside? Does it cover your battery in case of flood etc?

Also, did you get any discount from the ex-showroom price?

[velocirpator]

Originally Posted by vijayinvites

@velocirpator, what insurance did you take? Is it from the showroom or from outside? Does it cover your battery in case of flood etc?

Also, did you get any discount from the ex-showroom price?

I took the insurance from the showroom (ICICI), but you can also factor in the NCB from your existing car insurance to lower this amount. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get this certificate from my existing insurance provider in time so was unable to do this, but will claim the amount in retrospect.

They didn't offer any discount on the ex-showroom price.

[sushanthys]

Originally Posted by anb

15% charge in 8 hours means 10-11 kWh of energy in 8 hours. The charging speed is only 1.3 kWh. Ideally a 3.3 kW charger should be able to add 25 kWh energy in 8 hours, that is 34% charge for emax7 .

The BYD portable 3.3 kw chargers are rated to charge at 8A of electricity. So the charging speed will be very low.
So, go for 3rd party chargers which will charge at 16A. Charging speed will be much better.
They will also be less expensive than BYD portable chargers( BYD charges 25k for their portable charger, 3rd party chargers are in the range of 17-19k).

[velocirpator]

Originally Posted by sushanthys

The BYD portable 3.3 kw chargers are rated to charge at 8A of electricity. So the charging speed will be very low.
So, go for 3rd party chargers which will charge at 16A. Charging speed will be much better.
They will also be less expensive than BYD portable chargers( BYD charges 25k for their portable charger, 3rd party chargers are in the range of 17-19k).

Thanks! This is interesting to know. Strange that they'd supply a portable charger that's rated to supply half the current rating, even when they're calling it a 3.3 kW charger. And on top of that, they're charging a premium. I'll find out more.

[velocirpator]

Originally Posted by velocirpator

Thanks! This is interesting to know. Strange that they'd supply a portable charger that's rated to supply half the current rating, even when they're calling it a 3.3 kW charger. And on top of that, they're charging a premium. I'll find out more.

Unfortunately, the only Mode 2 portable charger that BYD offers (which I bought separately for ~24K) is rated at just 10A of current delivery. My mistake: I never noticed this spec at the time, and assumed this would be a 3.3 kW charger as advertised.



This is a pity, given that it just about delivers 1.7 kW, which is really low especially given that many EVs now come with larger battery packs. After market chargers -- some of which even have user-selectable current ratings from 10-16A -- are cheaper than the one they sell. And when I called to bring this to their notice, they of course said they 'don't recommend aftermarket chargers as we had experienced issues with them'.

These two from Zevpoint seem to deliver up to 16A, are more feature-rich (selectable power delivery, app support etc), and are priced about 9K lower than what BYD charges for their plain vanilla 10A unit!

Anyone have experience with using these or other aftermarket Mode 2 chargers for their BYD car? I'm thinking it would be better to return the portable charger to BYD and go for one that's better suited to charging my eMAX 7 reasonably quickly. I currently just about manage 10kW of charge over eight hours, which is quite paltry.

[anb]

Originally Posted by velocirpator

Unfortunately, the only Mode 2 portable charger that BYD offers (which I bought separately for ~24K) is rated at just 10A of current delivery. My mistake: I never noticed this spec at the time, and assumed this would be a 3.3 kW charger as advertised.
This is a pity, given that it just about delivers 1.7 kW, which is really low especially given that many EVs now come with larger battery packs. After market chargers -- some of which even have user-selectable current ratings from 10-16A -- are cheaper than the one they sell. And when I called to bring this to their notice, they of course said they 'don't recommend aftermarket chargers as we had experienced issues with them'.

What they are saying is incorrect. Aftermarket chargers won't cause any issues. The charger supplied by the BYD is itself a third party charger. Anyways, you will have to charge from an aftermarket DC charger for very long trips.Such wrong recommendations make an electric vehicle practically useless . I am using Zev point 3.6 kW charger in my MG ZS EV since the company supplied one works only at 2kW. I haven't faced any issues

[vijayinvites]

Do you guys think we should wait till the import tariffs are reduced? India is planning to reduce the import tariffs to 15%. I heard that BYD pay 70% import tariffs and this is probably the reason emax 7 is expensive? Anyone see Emax 7 price coming down in near future?

[sushanthys]

Originally Posted by velocirpator

Anyone have experience with using these or other aftermarket Mode 2 chargers for their BYD car? I'm thinking it would be better to return the portable charger to BYD and go for one that's better suited to charging my eMAX 7 reasonably quickly. I currently just about manage 10kW of charge over eight hours, which is quite paltry.

I have been using the Zevpoint Aveo 3.3 kw charger for my BYD Atto3. It can charge at 16A current and I get 5% SoC in 1 hour( The emax 7 having a larger battery will charge slightly slowly).
I just checked their website and the portable chargers which they have right now are new models with app support( They had given me a 2k discount while purchasing the model and the cost came to 17k). The support from Zevpoint at the time of their product purchase was good.
The charger is good and
my experience with it has been excellent so far.

[sushanthys]

Originally Posted by vijayinvites

Do you guys think we should wait till the import tariffs are reduced? India is planning to reduce the import tariffs to 15%. I heard that BYD pay 70% import tariffs and this is probably the reason emax 7 is expensive? Anyone see Emax 7 price coming down in near future?

The emax 7 is competitively priced. It gets features the BYD Atto 3 premium variant at the same price point does not. The car is a quality product and the chances of price reduction are very remote,IMHO