[DRPSREDDY]

Upgrade for 7.2KW Exicom chargers for TATA EVs

There is a free update for all the 7.2KW chargers installed by Exicom for all TATA Motors EVs. According to the technician there is a hardware upgrade to the 7.2KW Fast Chargers installed to all the opted customers.



I received a message about the upgrade and messaged them the date but there was no reply. Two days back a lady called up and fixed an appointment for today.

The technician called and arrived at my house. He told me that the new upgrade is to increase the charging speed from 30KW to 50KW to enable faster charging to enable a shorter charging time. It is a mix of hardware and software upgrade that will speed up the charging time.





He opened the box and changed a small cable, a thin one with a thicker one, that will upgrade the speed to 50KW.



Thicker cable



Thinner cable



He then open an app and scanned the QR code on the side of the charger and installed the upgrade and said it is good to go. But he did warned that some of them didn't work and he may need to re-install if it gets corrupted. He did cross check certain parameters and said it is successfully updated. Now I need to see how does it work in my next charging cycle.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Upgrade for 7.2KW Exicom chargers for TATA EVs

There is a free update for all the 7.2KW chargers installed by Exicom for all TATA Motors EVs. According to the technician there is a hardware upgrade to the 7.2KW Fast Chargers installed to all the opted customers.

He told me that the new upgrade is to increase the charging speed from 30KW to 50KW to enable faster charging to enable a shorter charging time.

He opened the box and changed a small cable, a thin one with a thicker one, that will upgrade the speed to 50KW.

Technician probably did not know the reason behind the upgrade! 30kW or 50kW does not even make sense when charger is rated for 7.2kW. My guess is this could be a recall to replace an inadequate part with a part rated for 7.2kW. Even the initial whatsapp screenshot talks about longevity.

[Shreyans_Jain]

This is a 7kw AC charger, which is the maximum AC charging that the hardware on the car supports. There is no question of any 30kw or upgrade to 50kw business. This seems to be a recall for the charger to fix a part or cable found to be faulty or underspecced.

I have no received any messages or calls from Exicom as yet, I have the same charger installed at home.

[thomahawk]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

increase the charging speed from 30KW to 50KW to enable faster charging to enable a shorter charging time.

Was it an upgrade from 3kW to 5kW (perhaps the slowest rate was 3kW before?). Does Tata have an app which shows the draw etc.?

[DRPSREDDY]

Yes.

The technician inform informed me that there is an app by Exicom named SPIN EV that gives you the exact status of the power drawn and the status of charging (that can also be seen on the TML Z Connect App).



I tried logging in but couldn't as the country code was not showing.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

I tried logging in but couldn't as the country code was not showing.

Finally logged in to the app. I did connect to the charger with Bluetooth connection. The app started showing me the status of charging. The charging rate bumped up from 7KW to 7.8Kw Charging rate. Now the car should charge quicker than previous. I could have guaged it but I have started charging from 47% and not 10%. The estimated time from 47% to 100% was showing as 3.30 hours on the car display.

Originally Posted by Comrade

Technician probably did not know the reason behind the upgrade! 30kW or 50kW does not even make sense when charger is rated for 7.2kW. My guess is this could be a recall to replace an inadequate part with a part rated for 7.2kW. Even the initial whatsapp screenshot talks about longevity.

Originally Posted by thomahawk

Was it an upgrade from 3kW to 5kW (perhaps the slowest rate was 3kW before?). Does Tata have an app which shows the draw etc.?

You people are right. It is not 30 to 50KW but maybe it's 7KW to 7.8KW.

Anyways he also mentioned that EXICOM have started installing 360KW charger in Shamshabad Hyderabad and they are in the process to install such high speed chagers in all the cities around the country.

[tumordox]

As new Ev models with higher battery capacities are being launched, home charging is slowly moving away from portable chargers ( 2.2-2.8KW) to AC fast wall charging units ( ACFC in short - capacities upwards of 7.2 KW). AC Fast chargers provide manageable charging times (cuts shorts the charging time by at least 60%) without the battery deterioration as seen with DC fast charging.
This thread is to discuss the issues with AC Fast chargers and EV charging.
First, I will share my experience with EXICOM charger I got with my Nexon EV.

EXICOM is a major vendor who supplies ACFCs to most mainstream EV manufacturers like TATA and MG. ACFC was one of my requirement while researching an EV, and I finally brought home a Nexon EV empowered plus 45KWH variant on November 5th, 2024, and got an EXICOM ACFC bundled with it.

Why AC Fast charger ?

The better way to charge an EV is from 20-30 % to full 100% as per the owners manual to optimally manage the charging cycle and to prolong the battery cycle. manufacturers recommend charging the EV battery always to 100% for cell balancing and optimal pack health. It takes 14 hours with the portable charger and under 7 hours with ACFC, 7 hours is manageable even if one come home late, 14-16 hours is difficult sometimes.
This reduced duration provides another opportunity - to schedule charging during off peak hours. I am a solar user, and presently in Kerala, NET metering is followed without consideration of peak Vs non peak usage. But as a responsible citizen and I would like to charge my EV during the off peak hours of 12 AM to 7 AM. Also in future the status may change with increased tariff for usage between 6 PM to 11PM.
So I felt these requirements will be met when i researched about the EXICOM wall charger which comes as complimentary ( they cleverly use the term complimentary for the charger although the price is included i the ex showroom price - this could be the reason why there are not many complaints against the shortcomings of the charger ) with the vehicle.
EXICOM has an app SPIN with the option of adjusting the charger output from 2.2 KW to 7.2Kw and to schedule the charging session. They have beautiful screenshots describing these functionality with the option of connecting with the charger via bluetooth in the app store, so everything related to charging is sorted I thought, scheduled 12AM -7AM charging sessions on weekdays and trickle charging the vehicle at 2.2 KW on Sunday mornings providing an even lower temperature charging to prolong battery life. But the reality was far from expectations.

The installation

The installation typically follows the pathway of installation team preliminary visit -> meeting the requirements of charger by local electrician / electricity supplier -> actual charger installation - post by Sushanthys describes the whole process in vivid detail.
I followed the steps and the charger was commissioned. The basic requirement of fast charger is to change all the current carrying wires from electric post up to charger to 10 sq mm diameter cables. My KSEB service line was 6mm aluminum, it took 3-4 days for the KSEB lineman to change it to 10sqmm cable, till then, the charger installation team had restricted the charger output to 2.4KW, they visited a second time after changing the service wire and commissioned it to its full potential of 7.2 KW. The conversion was an app based process.




But the irony of the whole process is that the current carrying wires from MCB to the charger and the charging gun has 6sq mm 3 core copper wires.

The issues with EXICOM and Spin app

The standard wall box comes only with Bluetooth connectivity. EXICOM charges an exorbitant 6999rs to make the charger compatible with WiFi. Since whole charging happens when me and my vehicle is at home , I dint find upgrading the charger useful, but when I tried connecting the charger with the app via Bluetooth, it is a hit or miss many a times, and lowering the charger output by sliding the slider doesn't work, I even fired a support mail asking about changing the charger output, and i got a reply that it will be enabled later.


Scheduling also doesn't work. It failed to initiate charging without giving any clear reasons why.



All this is in contrast to another app I use to monitor my solar output and home electricity consumption. I have a 5 KW enphase solar plant installed, apart from monitoring the solar panel output, it can also monitor real time electricity consumption, and it works always flawlessly. The issues with Indian manufacturers are the similar across all categories, be it a vehicle manufacturer like TAMo or M&M or vendors like EXICOM, they don't care anything about the customer experience, wants to make some quick bucks by putting half-baked products in market.

Screenshots from Enphase app




Attachment 2689449

[varkey]

Originally Posted by tumordox

The basic requirement of fast charger is to change all the current carrying wires from electric post up to charger to 10 sq mm diameter cables.
...
But the irony of the whole process is that the current carrying wires from MCB to the charger and the charging gun has 6sq mm 3 core copper wires.

This is actually perfectly fine, the current carrying capacity of an aluminium cable is lower than that of a copper cable of the same cross sectional area. The pole to meter cable is usually made of aluminium due to the lower weight, as it would be hanging and of course its cheaper.

The cable from meter box to the charger is usually done in copper XLPE insulated cable. The 6 sq mm cable is more than enough for this use case, provided the distance from the meter to the charger is not that high. If the distance is more than a threshold, 10 sq mm copper cables are used.

You could look at the cable specifications, specifically the current carrying capacity of both aluminium and copper cables to understand the difference.

[Massivesiege]

Originally Posted by tumordox

I followed the steps and the charger was commissioned. The basic requirement of fast charger is to change all the current carrying wires from electric post up to charger to 10 sq mm diameter cables. My KSEB service line was 6mm aluminum, it took 3-4 days for the KSEB lineman to change it to 10sqmm cable, till then, the charger installation team had restricted the charger output to 2.4KW, they visited a second time after changing the service wire and commissioned it to its full potential of 7.2 KW. The conversion was an app based process.
But the irony of the whole process is that the current carrying wires from MCB to the charger and the charging gun has 6sq mm 3 core copper wires.
I have a 5 KW enphase solar plant installed, apart from monitoring the solar

thanks for the detailed writeup with pictures, seeing that you too are from Kerala,I have a few questions based on everything you stated

1) KSEB mandates that the house be converted to 3 Phase If the connected load is above 5kw, you haven't mentioned the connected load of your KSEB service, but you did mention that you have a 5kw AC Coupled enphase system needing the grid to synchronize, did they require you to move to 3 phase for this?

2) do you mind outlining the additional charges you had to pay besides the 4 core service cable that is needed to pull 3 phase from the nearest post, do they bill you for pulling the other 2 phases to your nearest post(I heard a rumor of the same and not sure of it)

3) if your KSEB service is indeed 3 Phase, did you have to get a 4 core 10sqm aluminum cable, (3 phases and the neutral) and do you mind saying the declared connected load you had to declare

4) A quick datasheet dive says 10sqm aluminum cable is rated for 45amp which is roughly 10.3kw, but seeing that KSEB forces everyone over 5kw to go 3 phase, this would essentially triple the power to a 30kw service and would make it substantially more expensive to get a 4 core cable for 3 phase as opposed to a 2 core for single phase of the same 10sqmm

Originally Posted by varkey

This is actually perfectly fine, the current carrying capacity of an aluminium cable is lower than that of a copper cable of the same cross sectional area. The pole to meter cable is usually made of aluminium due to the lower weight, as it would be hanging and of course its cheaper.
.

Yes to add to this, the 10sqm cable is chosen based on the connected load which is his AC car charger plus all the other connected load/appliances, which based on the conductor sqm and material mentioned is rated for 45 amps or 10.3kw assuming single phase, which would leave around 3kw for the houehold appliances other than the charger( 3kw is not a lot for household appliances these days, a single storage water heater alone is 3kw)


I am very curious about the process other fellow Team-bhp members from Kerala had to go through to upgrade their old KSEB service for EV car charging, My parent's residence is also 2 core 6sqm aluminum cable, so theoretically 34 amps or 7.8KW,another team-bhp member from Kerala posted that KSEB asked him to go to 16sqm aluminum cable and also 3 phase which would be 58 amp or 13.8kw single phase or 41kw 3 phase, which confuses as i don't understand the KSEB mandate to go 3 phase and get a substanitally more expensive 4 core service cable which effectively triples the power rating at the same time

Havells 2 core Current rating chart for industrial cables

[varkey]

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

1) KSEB mandates that the house be converted to 3 Phase If the connected load is above 5kw

Yes, any connection with connected load greater than 5 kW is given only as 3 phase. This is applicable even for upgrades from < 5 kW to > 5 kW.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

2) do you mind outlining the additional charges you had to pay

You can check this document for the official charges. For conversion from single phase to three phase up to 10 kW would cost Rs 4587 + taxes. If above 10 kW and up to 25 kW then Rs 16995 + taxes. This should ideally include the cost of the service wire. However, if we request for wire gauges higher than what they normally stock, they would ask the customer to purchase it. Technically you are supposed to get a refund if we provide the materials, but I don't think the process is straight forward, and would require multiple follow-ups.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

3) if your KSEB service is indeed 3 Phase, did you have to get a 4 core 10sqm aluminum cable,

What I have seen is, they do two runs of 2 core cable, making it 4 core. I think 4 core service wires are not as easily available or more expensive than having two runs.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Yes to add to this, the 10sqm cable is chosen based on the connected load which is his AC car charger plus all the other connected load/appliances, which based on the conductor sqm and material mentioned is rated for 45 amps or 10.3kw assuming single phase, which would leave around 3kw for the houehold appliances other than the charger( 3kw is not a lot for household appliances these days, a single storage water heater alone is 3kw)

This would of course be a 3 phase connection, so the expectation is that other house loads are put on the other phases so that the entire house load is balanced across all three phases.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

I don't understand the KSEB mandate to go 3 phase and get a substanitally more expensive 4 core service cable which effectively triples the power rating at the same time

As I stated earlier, you just normally do 2 runs of 2 core cable. It is not that expensive as the service wire cost is included in the fee that you pay to KSEB. This is provided there is 3 phase supply available at your nearest pole. If not, you would need to pay the upgradation fee to upgrade the nearest pole to 3 phase. The cost sheet I linked above has the prices.
Secondly, it is a practice followed by most discoms over the country, higher loads (mostly above 5 kW) are not provided as single phase as it would lead to one phase being over loaded at the distribution transformer level. This is especially a problem when the customer has a higher connected load.

[Massivesiege]

Originally Posted by varkey

You can check this document for the official charges. For conversion from single phase to three phase up to 10 kW would cost Rs 4587 + taxes. If above 10 kW and up to 25 kW then Rs 16995 + taxes. This should ideally include the cost of the service wire. However, if we request for wire gauges higher than what they normally stock, they would ask the customer to purchase it. Technically you are supposed to get a refund if we provide the materials, but I don't think the process is straight forward, and would require multiple follow-ups.
What I have seen is, they do two runs of 2 core cable, making it 4 core. I think 4 core service wires are not as easily available or more expensive than having two runs.

Thanks for the link, that clears up most of my questions. The remaining being what size service cable does kseb provide for a declared load upgradation to 8kw, (I heard a rumor again that kseb only has 6sqmm aluminium service wire and hence will be as you stated 2 pairs of 2 core 6sqmm for 3 phase.)

Though 6sqmm aluminium is rated for 34 amps or 7.8kw, I think its pushing its capability when charger can pull close to 7.6kw on a single phase, if it was a 3 phase charger then it would be a different question of 11 amps on each phase distributed to make up the 7kw

Did they provide 6sqm wire for your 3 phase service line in your installation ? or did you have to go buy higher sqmm, If so why are a few teambhp memeber from kerala being suggested 16sqmm for the same connected load declaration of 8kw, 16sqm is rated for 58 amps or 13.3kw which is much more headroom than the declared 8kw connected load.10sqm is rated for 45 amps or 10kw, which seems more appropriate, I believe the team-bhp memeber in question was told 10sqmm would be a fire hazard

Also is kseb suggesting on only upgrading the phase and neutral where the charger is connected to 10sqm or 16sqm and the remaining two phase can remain on the smaller kseb provided 6 sqmm wire, which would seem to be more appropriate.

If not, you would need to pay the upgradation fee to upgrade the nearest pole to 3 phase. The cost sheet I linked above has the prices.
.

The nearest pole supplying my parents house only has two wires so it's definitely a 2 wire single phase system and I will be billed for pulling more wires several meters to make it 3 phase

Secondly, it is a practice0 followed by most discoms over the country, higher loads (mostly above 5 kW) are not provided as single phase as it would lead to one phase being over loaded at the distribution transformer level. This is especially a problem when the customer has a higher connected load

This is actually a common myth perputated, as far as I know, it's only kseb and maybe a few other handful of discom from let's say financially mismanaged and poor distribution infrastructure states that has these ridiculous single phase 5kw limit, people in hyderabad have 40kw single phase and hook up their charger to the single incoming phase, the norm in the UK for all households is 25sqmm single phase 3 core cable from the dno for a 100 amp 23kw service, this was earlier a 16sqm copper for old households for 60 amp service or 13.8kw, UK uses 3 core because they use the tn-c-s earthing system with the combined ground and neutral conductor as opposed to the TT Tera Tera system india uses which necessisates only two conductor from the transformer for supply and where the transformer is earthed at the nearest pole and also earthed at the customer supply side, not to mention this is the norm in the entire middle east as well which just follows the British standards

[varkey]

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

The remaining being what size service cable does kseb provide for a declared load upgradation to 8kw, (I heard a rumor again that kseb only has 6sqmm aluminium service wire and hence will be as you stated 2 pairs of 2 core 6sqmm for 3 phase.)

For up to 10 kW load (don't have much info about > 10 kW installations), they just use the standard cable that they have which is the 6 sq mm 2 core cable. This is what they use for pretty much all installations. One cable for single phase, and two cables for 3 phase.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Though 6sqmm aluminium is rated for 34 amps or 7.8kw, I think its pushing its capability when charger can pull close to 7.6kw on a single phase

True, we would need to use a higher gauge cable.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Did they provide 6sqm wire for your 3 phase service line in your installation ?

Mine is an old 3 phase connection with an original load of 6 kW. When I installed the 7 kW charger, I got it bumped to 10 kW (9.7 or so is what they have put it as). Didn't have to pay anything, and was done entirely online. I didn't want to go above 10 kW, as I would need to pay the ~ 20k or so incl taxes upgradation fee, so I left it as-is and set the charger to charge at 20A or ~ 4.5 kW. I didn't change the service wire from pole to meter, but got the fuse for that phase changed to HRC fuse. Changing the service wire is something that I have deferred for later (although its been 2+ years), but I am more or less happy with the current 20A/4.5 kW charging setup.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Also is kseb suggesting on only upgrading the phase and neutral where the charger is connected to 10sqm or 16sqm and the remaining two phase can remain on the smaller kseb provided 6 sqmm wire, which would seem to be more appropriate.

The nearest pole supplying my parents house only has two wires so it's definitely a 2 wire single phase system and I will be billed for pulling more wires several meters to make it 3 phase

If you are doing it, makes sense to just change the cable for all phases and neutral. The service wire isn't that expensive, a quick search shows it's some Rs 30-40 per meter for 2 core cable, so Rs 60-80 for two pairs per meter. The price difference between 10 sq mm and 16 sq mm aluminium service wire is also not that high. You'd mostly pay more than the price difference as a tip to the lineman for the work.

Anyway in your case, the major expense would be to upgrade the nearest pole to 3 phase, rather than the service wire cost which would be trivial.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

This is actually a common myth perputated, as far as I know, it's only kseb and maybe a few other handful of discom from let's say financially mismanaged and poor distribution infrastructure states that has these ridiculous single phase 5kw limit

Not so sure about that, it is a fact that the load to the distribution transformer needs to be balanced. However there could be other ways to ensure that its balanced, but then giving higher sanctioned loads as single phase would mean, you need to use higher gauge cables. End of the day, its a balance taking into consideration other aspects of the distribution system as well.

Telangana electricity regulations also say max 5 kW for a domestic single phase connection. It's the same in Karnataka as well.

[Massivesiege]

Originally Posted by varkey

If you are doing it, makes sense to just change the cable for all phases and neutral. The service wire isn't that expensive, a quick search shows it's some Rs 30-40 per meter for 2 core cable, so Rs 60-80 for two pairs per meter. The price difference between 10 sq mm and 16 sq mm aluminium service wire is also not that high. You'd mostly pay more than the price difference as a tip to the lineman for the work.

Anyway in your case, the major expense would be to upgrade the nearest pole to 3 phase, rather than the service wire cost which would be trivial.

Thanks for taking the time outlining your setup in kerala and your experience dealing with KSEB



I was going by these prices and I need over 30 meters of service wire which by itself would neccissate going to higher gauge because of the long cable run, I am curious where you got the 30-40 Rs number, the chart above depicts as you rightly stated, it makes zero sense not to go 16sqm over 10 sqmm as the price difference is negligible between the two and its roughly 197Rs for a meter for 16sqm 2 core aluminium, the price charts from polycab and few others are roughly the same ballpark, these prices are roughly 5 times higher than the one you quoted so i need to ask locally now what the rates are per meter

Granted even at 197rs a meter it will be 6000rs for just the service wire which isn't absurd

Not so sure about that, it is a fact that the load to the distribution transformer needs to be balanced. However there could be other ways to ensure that its balanced, but then giving higher sanctioned loads as single phase would mean, you need to use higher gauge cables. End of the day, its a balance taking into consideration other aspects of the distribution system as well.

Telangana electricity regulations also say max 5 kW for a domestic single phase connection. It's the same in Karnataka as well.

It just seems the indian example is full of exceptions and contradictions

Do see this video at 4:14 mark where a famous Indian youtuber from hyderabad has a 7kw ac charger being installed for his nexon ev max and describes his house as having only single phase and 40kw load declaration, he explicitly states there is no need for 3 phase and it's just a misconception

https://youtu.be/gjPkuKvd6Zg?si=4QJm87PNeJDJL4qy

Since the main power distribution transformer is 3 phase it definitely has to be balanced, but 5kw is simply absurd, without digging further where this number originated from, it seems more likely to be a carryover from a different time where the average connected load for most Indian household was 1700w or under.

[varkey]

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

I was going by these prices and I need over 30 meters of service wire which by itself would neccissate going to higher gauge because of the long cable run, I am curious where you got the 30-40 Rs number

I think you are looking at XLPE insulated cables, and not the usual aluminium service wire. Also, the rate in the product price list is usually inflated, and the going rate is much lower. For example, a 10 sq mm Polycab 4 core aluminium XLPE insulated armoured cable only costs Rs 126 per meter. The MRP would be much higher. Also, I had purchased 6 sq mm, 2 core service wire from a local store for Rs 20 or so per meter a few years ago.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Do see this video at 4:14 mark where a famous Indian Youtuber from hyderabad has a 7kw ac charger being installed for his nexon ev max and describes his house as having only single phase and 40kw load declaration, he explicitly states there is no need for 3 phase and it's just a misconception

Well, he also says he has used a "10 core cable" (4:05) (instead of 3 core 10 sq mm cable most likely), so I would take that with a grain of salt. I completely agree with him that the charger itself works over a single phase and there is no need for 3 phase for the charger to work. Also, in the video, I don't think he is claiming that he has a 40 kW single phase connection from the discom. He seem to be just stating that the charger needs only a single phase, which is true.

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Since the main power distribution transformer is 3 phase it definitely has to be balanced, but 5kw is simply absurd, without digging further where this number originated from, it seems more likely to be a carryover from a different time where the average connected load for most Indian household was 1700w or under.

Yes, that's quite possible. There is also the current rating of a single phase energy meter that is commonly available, most are rated for max current of 30A, which wouldn't be suited for a 10 kW load. As we go above 15-20 kW of load, CT based energy meters are used. So as I said, other parts of the distribution network also needs to be considered.

[tumordox]

Originally Posted by Massivesiege

Thanks for taking the time outlining your setup in kerala and your experience dealing with KSEB

Attachment 2706773

hi sorry for being late to reply, hadn't been to TBH for some time, I see that most of the questions have been answered here, I will add my personal experiences,
We initially had a single phase connection with 2kw connected load, but the wiring was previously done as per the requirement for a 3phase connection . Initially I converted it to a 3 phase connection with a connected load of 9.7KW, while installing the solar, that time KSEB people put 6sqmm 2 core aluminum cables in 2 passes from meter board to post for 3 phases and neutral, required a plan drawing from an electrician showing connected load of 9.7Kw, it was approved and the lineman came with the 6mm cable and did the change.
At the time of charger upgrade, 10 sq mm cable was necessary, which was not available with KSEB , so I bought it from a nearby electrical shop. 10 sq mm cables - 40 meters ( 20m x2 - post to board length for 2 passes) for about 30-40 rs per meter. Now I called the KSEB station directly , took the number of lineman and called him directly, no request was given officially, no change in load, he came one day and changed the cable.
now you can use 10 /16 sq mm, but the real issue is passing them through the conduits, it was extremely difficult to pass the set of 2 cables through the 90 degree bend and the conduit while routing it to the meter board, 16 sq mm will be even more difficult.