[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

shows the PLF for Coal and Lignite based power plants in Center, State and private ownership.

Historically, private coal power sector has not done well because of irregular access to coal. Many central & state govt power companies have access to their own coal or lignite mines. Coal India too probably prioritizes supply to their older PSU clients.

[oldcontessafan]

India has roughly 1/5th of world's coal reserves, and out of that 1/4th is concentrated in JH/CG/OD. So most of the coal plants here are 'pit-head' stations, meaning they have captive or linked access to coal.
The way solar plants are typically located in high insolation areas like RJ/GJ, cola plants are located in pit head locations (transporting electricity is way cheaper than transporting coal). Hence it is fair to compare PLFs of solar to PLFs of pit-head plants (which are quite high)

However, I fully agree on the requirement of batteries and Solar+wind+storage being the cost effective future for India.
GoI has done a fantastic work of trying out many different technologies, contractual structures, and backed it up with fast build out of evacuation network. So while the 50% generation share by 2030 may or may not be achieved we will still be a lot sorted with diminishing per capita emissions.
Regarding the original topic of this thread on EVs, in my opinion it is a win for sure because managing tail pipe emission is way more difficult (and expensive) compared to plant emissions (which is anyways getting decarbonized)

[maddy42]

A step in the right direction:

People with solar rooftop systems can now start selling the excess power they generate to consumers keen on using green energy to power their houses. Till now, those with solar rooftop systems could sell the excess power only to escoms owing to the l...

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/india/k...sumers-3145922

[SKC-auto]

Good video on the subject.

59% of our energy generated is rejected. With RE, batteries and efficiency improvements we need less energy than before.

https://youtu.be/EVJkq4iu7bk

[ferrarirules]

BESS costs just 15% pa decline away from avoiding to add any new coal power capacity.

With cooling of battery prices, BESS is becoming more and more reality than a future.

Recently interacted with a owner of EPC company which is implement BESS solutions for industries as well as solar plant in North India.

The news today talks about BESS prices just 15% pa decline away from adding new coal capacity for equivalent power generation. The current price for BESS is coming to 69 lakh per MWH. At 60 Lakh per MWH, It will be on par with new coal power implementation.

Excerpt from the article

The report compiled by global energy think tank Ember and the Delhi-based The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI) says if the battery energy storage system (BESS) costs continue to decline at the current rate of 7 per cent annually, India's power sector will see coal generation plateauing until 2032, while additional coal capacity may still be needed to meet the demand during non-solar hours

Link to article

[SmartCat]

For battery storage costs, this 7% pa (current fall) and 15% pa (desirable fall) metrics are confusing. Somewhere hidden in the article, the author mentions the absolute drop needed to make solar + BESS as competitive as coal (after considering PLF):

While recent declines in the BESS costs have been significant, the report says they need to drop by more than 50 percent from the current levels to follow a least-cost pathway that avoids new coal capacity, especially for meeting non-solar demand.

Current decline in battery costs = 7% pa
Desired drop absolute number = 50% pa

Using cagrcalculator but in reverse, it will take about 9 years for solar + BESS to be as competitive as coal (after considering PLF), with the current decline in prices.

If the decline in battery prices accelerate to 15% pa, it will take just 4 to 5 years for solar + BESS to best coal!

[PreludeSH]

Good thread. In Sharavathi (Jog falls), pumped storage generation is being built. This has been used in West for long time where they pump back water during low demand hours. Not sure if this applies to our country where the price is same 24 hours.

If you had to pump, couldn't you use solar/wind to do that same? Hydro generation output can be adapted quickly as per demand unlike coal and other less consistent methods. This is what makes hydro generation better.

Anyone has efficiency calculation for such methods ?

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

In Sharavathi (Jog falls), pumped storage generation is being built. This has been used in West for long time where they pump back water. Hydro generation output can be adapted quickly as per demand unlike coal and other less consistent methods. This is what makes hydro generation better. Anyone has efficiency calculation for such methods ?

Interesting. Was not aware of this!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped...droelectricity

It apparently uses up more energy, but still works out because this is used only when there is peak demand.

The round-trip efficiency of PSH varies between 70% and 80%. Although the losses of the pumping process make the plant a net consumer of energy overall, the system increases revenue by selling more electricity during periods of peak demand, when electricity prices are highest.

Not sure if this applies to our country where the price is same 24 hours.

The price is fixed for consumers, but not power producers and power distributors. Electricity prices are variable for them. Like stock exchanges, we have power trading exchanges where electricity is bought and sold.

Power Trading Corporation
https://www.ptcindia.com/

Indian Energy Exchange
https://www.iexindia.com/

The current "wholesale" price of electricity in India is Rs. 4.2/KWh!



Since we have interconnected grids, power can be transferred from any power producer to power distributor. But I guess farther the distance, transmission loss will be higher.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

I guess there are pros and cons. Looks like 40% to 50% of revenues generated by a coal/natural gas power plant goes into purchasing fuel. Eg: GIPCL

But solar plants have no fuel costs - so operating margins will be massive (90% plus). So from business point of view, solar plants will still offer reasonable ROI, despite lower PLF and lower prices offered by discoms or electricity exchanges.

Not disagreeing with the point being being made, would point out the PV panels degrade in efficiency over time. IIRC something like 20% degradation every 10 years. So, the electricity production will also degrade proportionally over time, likewise the operating margins.

I assume that a solar farm will not replace the whole farm in one go, rather incrementally replace panels with improved efficiency (with progress in the technology) on an ongoing basis. So, I presume there would be a constant replacement cost involved. In addition to the replacement of panels due to damage from the elements & fauna.

I'm sure the bean counters would have factored all these before placing their bids. Nonetheless, a factor influencing their financials.

[ferrarirules]

Some more BESS implementations replacing diesel generators in the news - AmpereHour has implemented the same.

200KW/200KWH BESS reduced reliance on digital generators at Sula Vineyards

Excerpt from the article

The 200kW / 220kWh Li-ion energy storage system was installed and commissioned in February 2023. The plant was seamlessly integrated into the vineyard’s power grid, allowing for smooth transitions between solar power, energy storage, and diesel generators when required. Since its installation, the ESS has been cycled daily, typically charging during peak solar hours between 11AM to 2PM and discharging during outages or during peak tariff evening hours between 6PM to 10PM. Solar energy utilization has increased, diesel generator consumption has reduced and effective energy tariff has reduced. This has positively impacted Sula Vineyards’ operational costs, as well as reduced their carbon footprint.

Link to Article

Coca cola implements BESS for powering their bottling plant in Chennai

Excerpt from the article

At a Coca-Cola factory on the outskirts of Chennai in southern India, a giant battery powers machinery day and night, replacing a diesel-spewing generator. It's one of just a handful of sites in India powered by electricity stored in batteries, a key component to fast-tracking India's energy transition away from dirty fuels.

Link to Article

These are exciting times, electricity is much more democratized commodity than Fuel so the art of possible is in the hand of the consumer. Today, you can decide to live off the grid and not rely on fuel

[ferrarirules]

We are making daily strides in this spaces now.

This time it is the news of solar powered charging hub being installed near Bengaluru airport for 24 cars simultaneous charging. The hub will have 45 KVa battery using second-life batteries to store extra solar power generated during the day.

The work is already 80% done and the hub should be up and running in 15-20 days as per officials

Based on the success of the hub, it will be replicated at other locations.

Excerpt from the article

“We have a 220 kV Karnataka Power Transmission Corporation Ltd. (KPTCL) station near the airport where we will set up the station. Twenty-four vehicles can be charged in the EV station at once,” said a senior official from Bescom.

The EV charging station will have a rooftop solar installation, which will power the station during solar hours. “There will be two stacks of batteries (each stack will have 18 batteries) with a total capacity of 45 kVA in which excess solar energy will be stored. This energy will be used to power the station during non-solar hours.“

While solar-powered EV stations have been set up before, second-life batteries have never been used to store energy and supply it to the station, according to the Bescom official.

Link to article

[SmartCat]

UK has shutdown its last coal fired power plant

End of an era as Britain’s last coal-fired power plant shuts down
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ant-shuts-down

Coal power made up 80% of the UK’s electricity in the early 1980s, and 40% in 2012, before petering out in the last decade due to costly carbon taxes and the rise of cheaper renewables.