[RahulNagaraj]

According to media reports, tech giant, Samsung, unveiled its latest battery technology at the SNE Battery Day 2024 Expo in Seoul, South Korea. The new battery technology comes in the form of a solid-state oxide battery specifically for EVs.

Samsung's new Solid-state EV batteries come with impressive claims, including a 20-year lifespan. The most impressive aspect though is that the batteries can hold around 500 Wh/kilogram energy density -nearly double that found on EV batteries today. These high energy density capabilities, as per reports, should help EVs equipped with Samsung batteries to offer around 600 miles (965 km) of range on a single charge.



Another impressive feature is that Samsung claims its new battery tech is capable of charging completely in just 9 minutes. Although, this would require infrastructure with charging speeds of around 480 kW to 600 kW.

Reports also state that Samsung is already working with carmakers to incorporate its new tech in future EVs. The tech giant is said to have partnered with Toyota to begin mass production by 2027. Models from Toyota's premium sub-brand, Lexus could be the first to get the technology.

Source: NotebookCheck

Link to Team-BHP news

[Tech]

Good show by Samsung, they must be having the technology to give 2 minute charging and 3000 miles range but they will keep on giving minor updates to this 9 min/600 miles configuration every year to create revenue stream for the next 10 - 15+ years.

Like I said elsewhere that expect frequent disruptions in the EV space every 6 months which will make any EV investment seem worthless with huge drop in resale value and higher FOMO to get the latest technology every year.

5 L extra investment over any ICE and minimum 2-3 L fast drop in resale value will become the norm every year. What great days we used to have when we used to create excel sheets to see if 1.2L extra investment in diesel over petrol would make sense

Seems like nobody will work on my liked and focused area of self regenerative power because that will kill the cash inflow for these big brands.

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by Tech

Good show by Samsung, they must be having the technology to give 2 minute charging and 3000 miles range but they will keep on giving minor updates to this 9 min/600 miles configuration every year to create revenue stream for the next 10 - 15+ years.

There must be at least dozen companies working on advancing battery technology, are you saying that all of them are sitting on major advances but drip feeding them to maximise revenues or is it only Samsung which has this. The simpler explanation is no one has such technology and it is a real struggle to improve batteries.

Originally Posted by Tech

Like I said elsewhere that expect frequent disruptions in the EV space every 6 months which will make any EV investment seem worthless with huge drop in resale value and higher FOMO to get the latest technology every year.

Not so long ago this was the case with smartphones, every 6 months something significantly better will come and people were upgrading every 12 to 18 months. The party lasted for a few years, after that the replacement duration doubled and kept growing. People are keeping their smartphones for longer and longer. And most people don't know their phone specs, like camera megapixel, RAM or OS version.

I wish EV improve that fast, but it is no where close to that. Tata is still selling effectively the same battery with 0.7C charging for 4+ years. Once EVs hit ~600 kms real world high range and ~300 kms recharge in ~10 mins, very few will care about improvements beyond that.

If the Samsung batteries (or others') achieve this at reasonable price premium, then it is something to look forward to and welcome.

Originally Posted by Tech

minimum 2-3 L fast drop in resale value will become the norm every year.

Are you talking about Jimny, XUV 700, etc

Automotive industry (and many others) are cyclical, ups and downs are unavoidable.

[horseblood]

Brings to mind the following line from Bohemian Rhapsody (Queen):
♫♪♪ "Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?" ♫♪♪

To which Samsung might reply:
♫♪♪ "Open your eyes, look up to the (SK)ies and see" ♫♪♪


Wow! Seems too good to be true. We've been hearing about such lofty claims about battery related things for a while now (eg the Graphene hype a few years ago including its promise in batteries). So there's a reasonable time till it proves it's worth. There maybe some unexpected issues that might come up in that time being a gen1 product, which obviously would need to be ironed out.

But, again, Wow! Massive leap in every aspect.

Coupled with the Bajaj Freedom 125, could turn 2024 into a breakway year as far as mobility disruption is concerned.

Cheers!

[pram_ind]

Originally Posted by Tech

Like I said elsewhere that expect frequent disruptions in the EV space every 6 months which will make any EV investment seem worthless with huge drop in resale value and higher FOMO to get the latest technology every year.

5 L extra investment over any ICE and minimum 2-3 L fast drop in resale value will become the norm every year. What great days we used to have when we used to create excel sheets to see if 1.2L extra investment in diesel over petrol would make sense

The updated EV battery can also be swapped with older one. There is no need to change the whole car for the same.

The only component which gets changed is the BMS which is battery specific.

The battery configuation can be made to 400 or 800V architecture depending upon the car specs.

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by Tech

Good show by Samsung, they must be having the technology to give 2 minute charging and 3000 miles range but they will keep on giving minor updates to this 9 min/600 miles configuration every year to create revenue stream for the next 10 - 15+ years.

You will never ever be able to get 3000 miles of range in 2 min. EV powertrain is already at 95% efficiency, battery is over 90% to 99% efficiency depending on charging speed. You can only reduce the Wh/kg or the volume of the battery.

So to get 4800km of range in 2 minutes, you will need to have a battery of around 800 kWh and then charge it at a speed of 77 Mega Watt or basically have a nuclear reactor at every charging station.

Even if you put such a battery in a small capacity of 50kWh, it will have to charge at a equivalent of 4.8 Mega Watt speed or in other words a battery with 96.6C charge speed.

Good luck cooling the charging cable and then lifting the super heavy cable. You will have to then increase the voltage to something like 10000V to keep the weight and heat down. This will also mean that you have to increase the physical distance between wires, conductors and chassis, contactor gap inside relays, insulation resistance and so on. Otherwise you will cause a arc hotter than the sun surface.

[Precision]

The theory of drip feeding Technological "advancements" is very much real in the Semiconductor space and guess samsung has both feet in that industry,so very much a possibility here also.
Theoretical "maximum" doesn't exist in the practical realm,be it batteries or nuclear energy.
Very good marketing material it makes for and nothing more.
There are Hundreds of Solid state battery research going on across the world. This is just the beginning.

[efgritesh]

Originally Posted by DIY410

So to get 4800km of range in 2 minutes, you will need to have a battery of around 800 kWh and then charge it at a speed of 77 Mega Watt or basically have a nuclear reactor at every charging station.

Even if you put such a battery in a small capacity of 50kWh, it will have to charge at a equivalent of 4.8 Mega Watt speed or in other words a battery with 96.6C charge speed.

Thanks for insights, I am surprised no one pointed to this earlier.

If this is hlaf true, I think hybrids are our best bet. any number of EV charging stations wont be sufficient for supporting every single vehicle running on battery. CNG gas stations dont take that long to refil, still I havent seen any one of them free of queues.

[sse]

Happy to read this, because, few years ago, my brother worked in Murata - Company working on SSO batteries - but on a related product.

Solid State Batteries were still in prototype during his time there and few automobile manufacturers were interested in its usage. Infact, the primary usage for that was for a popular handheld company as a replacement to Lithium battery. They even pushed the technology to use in their then upcoming EV Car. Things took a u-Turn for the said company due to reasons privy to them.

Even a Pacemaker company was looking at this tech. Main advantage of Oxide batteries were they was less chance of electrolyte leakage and in most conditions does not ignite at all.

Simultaneously, there were also studies on working with Sulphides instead of Oxides.

But to think this tech would be on the EV soon is just good PR for Samsung that they are now diversifying into a different territory.

Here is a better article on their "Prototype" which they showcased at the same Expo. As per their article Chinese makers are already in this business which is new to me.

[PreludeSH]

If battery technology can grow at high pace, it makes sense to standardize the form factor like we have for consumer batteries today ?

So this is the solid state battery that Toyota was/is talking about or do they have their own too ? They can start designing the car including the motor with battery being able to be placed into a standard enclosure

[navinmra]

Originally Posted by Tech

Good show by Samsung, they must be having the technology to give 2 minute charging and 3000 miles range but they will keep on giving minor updates to this 9 min/600 miles configuration every year to create revenue stream for the next 10 - 15+ years.

The production costs of these tech are usually very high and will come down with each iteration, as it did with LEDs…

Originally Posted by Tech

Like I said elsewhere that expect frequent disruptions in the EV space every 6 months which will make any EV investment seem worthless with huge drop in resale value and higher FOMO to get the latest technology every year.

Buying an EV is like buying an iPhone these days. Yes, there’s a better one coming, but the best one to enjoy is the one already on the shelf!

Originally Posted by Tech

5 L extra investment over any ICE and minimum 2-3 L fast drop in resale value will become the norm every year. What great days we used to have when we used to create excel sheets to see if 1.2L extra investment in diesel over petrol would make sense

I’m theorising, but I suspect the same with happen for ICE cars because as regulations tighten, the lifespan of that expensive ICE car will no longer be 15 years but say 10 years as many Delhiites found out about their diesel SUVS! So I guess, with these excel sheets becoming obsolete as soon as you create them, the trick is to see the longevity of the use case of the car you are looking to buy and then making an informed decision.

For instance, when I bought my Nexon EV Max last year, it fit my use case, which will not change in the foreseeable future. Will I like 60KW fast charging? Yes. Can I live with the 30KW fast charging of the car? Absolutely!

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by DIY410

You will never ever be able to get 3000 miles of range in 2 min. EV powertrain is already at 95% efficiency, battery is over 90% to 99% efficiency depending on charging speed. You can only reduce the Wh/kg or the volume of the battery.

.

This solid state battery things have been going on for some time including some of the alien technologies promised by Toyota where you can have 1000+ kms of range with charging time less than 10 min and curing cancer during those 10 minutes of down time (or something like that). For each such claim one just needs to workout a simple charging rate requirement and you will see how unrealistic the figures are. One such calculations gave 1 MW charger.

Moral of the story is one should always do a back of the envelope calculation based on basic physics before jumping to conclusions, whether it is these ultra fast super dense batteries or any of the umpteen hydrogen technologies.

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

This solid state battery things have been going on for some time including some of the alien technologies promised by Toyota where you can have 1000+ kms of range with charging time less than 10 min and curing cancer during those 10 minutes of down time (or something like that). For each such claim one just needs to workout a simple charging rate requirement and you will see how unrealistic the figures are. One such calculations gave 1 MW charger.

Moral of the story is one should always do a back of the envelope calculation based on basic physics before jumping to conclusions, whether it is these ultra fast super dense batteries or any of the umpteen hydrogen technologies.

Hi, I agree with you. My expectation from Solid State Battery is to provide us higher usable capacity & less weight by occupying the less space e.g. if current generation BYD Blade battery of 60kW occupy about 5ft by 4ft space and give us range of 521km (ARAI or so) and weight around 500kgs, Solid State Battery with similar capacity of 60kW occupy 3ft by 2ft space and give us a range of 625km and weight approx. 300kgs.