[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Attachment 2654471

PDF as received from MG.

This is really weird. From the screenshot (I admit I have not read the brochure yet), why would one go for hero fincorp when bajaj finserv is offering the same things and no additional charge for extra kms?

The more I think about it, the more this seems like a hurried and slipshod launch. From the brochure to the SAs to the vloggers and the general public, everyone is bewildered. Almost as if the sudden price cut on the eve of their launch by Tata derailed their eureka moment and this is the best they could come up with after a sleepless night of re-jigging things.

I bet this is not the last we have heard and soon "amplifications" and "clarifications" and "measures catering to overwhelming demand and popularity" will be announced. If ever there was a case for Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS), it is this..

[vagman]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Attachment 2654471

PDF as received from MG.

Interesting! Why would anyone opt for anything other than Vidyut when they offer the same rental cost with additional benefit of no minimum km?

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by vagman

Interesting! Why would anyone opt for anything other than Vidyut when they offer the same rental cost with additional benefit of no minimum km?

Any financial institution would recover money they've loaned to you. So its only a matter of time. The table is just a small part, am sure we'll have to rip apart each option and see what's the catch.

I consistently do > 1500 km, enough to distribute to my current car. To me Bajaj Finserv makes sense.

Herofin, depending on how the additional money paid gets adjusted in the loan.

[kippu]

Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI

Does CMVR guidelines specify how boot space should be calculated? I am trying to figure out the 604L boot space in terms of practicality - count of bags or longest item which can fit

Again, why is the boot space so big if the kms per charge is not fit for long distance drive..
Why was the higher range not even being mentioned over here?

[NiInJa]

I am sure the 60% buyback will have lot of *s mentioned and customers should be aware of it. People should not expect that they will get the 'assured' 60% of money paid at the end of the lease period.

Here in Europe, if a car is bought on lease, at the end of lease period, the car's residual value is evaluated based on any damages occurred during the period of lease, and even small scratches on dashboard or panels means the car's value is reduced further.

I am not a big fan of subscription models, if anything, over the years they have taught me that you end up spending more money than you actually would if you had brought the product outright. It might make sense in other countries where education and healthcare is taken care of by the government, so you can afford to spend on such things. I would rather put the money somewhere else than paying for minimum 6000 odd rupees (3.5 Rs @ 1500km per month+GST) when I am not driving the car.

[skb1811]

It does look like a stretched out MG comet with 2 more doors added on. And, is it just me or does the headlight housing plastic and that black strip in between remind you of the kia carens front end?

[thanixravindran]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Miss Avira is contradicting herself when she says "minimum running required" is 1500 km per month and then says "you will only be charged for kms you drive and idle time will not result in billing"

Also, Miss Avira is hallucinating (AI terminology) when she says minimize idle time to conserve battery and improve "fuel" efficiency.

I thought it is about starting the car and idling like waiting in signal and got nothing to do with minimum running of 1500 Kms. So Bangalore folks can take BaaS without worrying about raking bills while struck in traffic

Of course, in future they kept this option open to charge idling too like how the app based taxis evolved.

PS: Avira may be a super bot to care about the fuel efficiency of the coal powered plants

[Entells]

I saw a video of an auto journalist interviewing Mr Parth Jindal and Mr Rajeev chaba. It was mentioned in the video that under MG -ehub program, various charging companies have been registered.

Charging the MG windsor at any of these companies charger will generate a zero bill to the customer and the actual bill will be paid by MG.

This move is one of the best move to encourage EV infrastructure and encouraging more and more EV charging stations. On the other hand, this can be the beginning of privatization of electricity units for charging EV.

When I did the calculations, I did understood there plans to some extent.

For a 38 kwh battery, I assume that the car was charged till 100 percent when the SOC % was 0
For easier calculation, i assume that the charger company charges 20 rs per unit..

Now total bill will be ₹ 760. ( 38*20).
Assuming that the car will travel 300 km with this 38 kwh charge. (MG claims 331 as of now)

MG is charging 3.5 per km. That means they will get 300*3.5 = 1050.

Simple maths says , MG will earn 1050-760 = 290 rs per 300 km.

So, for every 1500 km per month, MG will earn approx ₹1500.

Now here is the complex maths ����

A company who is charging 20 rs per unit ,when it comes under a partnership, it may settle for a 15 rs per unit value. The lesser the agreed value, the more profit per km will come to MG. Moreover the GST component will be compensated with that.

Now when these companies will be getting this fixed amount through a well know company, they will try to install more and more chargers and hence the number of charging station will increase.

Secondly, If the car is charged at home, this entire km range will go directly to MG.

Example: If the car was charged at home from 50 % SOC. Approx 20 ( exact 19) units will be charged and range will be approx 150.

So the customer will pay 20*6 rs to discom and 150*3.5 to MG.

Basically, if you charge your car at your home, it will be more costly than charging at a fast charger.

Now to avoid this extra cost, more and more customers will charge at public chargers and charging at home will reduce. ( Atleast for the Windsor)

So basically, A unit from discoms which is available for 6 rs per unit will be charged at 15-20 rs per unit and counted as free.

If this calculation of mine is true, then MG is taking only ₹15000 per month or 18000 per year. I am sure, they won't be able to break even the cost of battery with this amount in next 5 years. 18000*5 = 90000.

This took me to another conclusion that a partial cost of battery has been included in the 9.99 figure.

[antz.bin]

In light of new information and the Vidyut BaaS plan. The revised running cost calculation comes to ₹4.5- ₹5 per km depending on the electricity rate in your state.

₹4.5/km in Bangalore/Pune traffic is like a godsend never seen before running cost on an ICE car not powered by CNG. Even if your Hybrid Hyryder returns 20kmpl, it's still just ₹5/km. But the cheapest Hybrid Hyryder costs ₹19.76 lakh to acquire. My own small Diesel hatchback can probably do ₹4.5 or even ₹3.6/km on a great day on the highway. But in Pune City traffic, it has never been better than 16kmpl or about ₹5.6/km during the COVID times, its been even worse lately.

I am not considering the cost to foreclose the lease. Because the payments to OPEC (/Russia) also never end and my comparison is with ICE cars.

BaaS has a world of opportunities to compete head on with the ICE cars by removing the sticker shock.

Tatas could BaaS out their Long Range Tiago.EV/XpressT batteries for ₹2.5/km (smaller 24/26 kWh battery) and kill the WagonR/DZire/Xcent CNG Cab market just like that! These cabs can even do inter-city drives by tying up with halfway eateries to fast-charge their car for discounted rates while the Savari consumes overpriced food. Considering their running, cabbies could pay off their lease well in advance and *upgrade* to EV running costs in just a couple of years! Imagine doing that with your ICE car.

Imagine a BaaSed out Ather that costs exactly the same as an NTorq 125 but costs just ₹1/km to run instead of ₹2.5/km for the NTorq! Or for that matter a similar BaaSed out TVS iQube vs Activa situation.

You need disruptors, not ICE incumbents to properly structure a BaaS program and attack ICE vehicles head on.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Remember that MG is paying the battery maker in advance for every car sold. Since MG does not have unlimited money and customer is not paying for the battery, MG has to borrow from banks to fund the batteries cost, especially if of (battery + interest cost) only partly from the customer over multiple years.

My guess is this model can become very effective for customers as well as manufacturers, especially Chinese in future. We should see a lot of changes in due course ( I already noticed a correction on warranty terms as long as one is paying Rs 3,50 per km) irrespective of the ownership.

Regarding MG paying fully to battery makers and how much, we need to remember MG is SAIC aka Government of China

I don't think they need to go to the Bank Of course, they will have a tie-up to route the funds but the costs of borrowing such funds should be very little.

Also, we don't know how much spare capacity of batteries is in China. With newer technologies like solid-state batteries expected very soon, they will like to sell everything, everywhere.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-a...-battery-plans

I also think our Insurance costs will be lower as the same has to be covered by MG, unless there's some additional fine print. This also implies no hassles of replacements in warranty as we have recently heard about Tata motors refusing warranties in case of minor scratches etc on the battery.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Regarding MG paying fully to battery makers and how much, we need to remember MG is SAIC aka Government of China.
I don't think they need to go to the Bank Of course, they will have a tie-up to route the funds but the costs of borrowing such funds should be very little.

Since that post, more information has trickled out that suggests that MG is paid fully or partly for the battery by financial institutions in India. These finance firms are charging the customers Rs. 5,250 per month minimum (1500 km x Rs. 3.5). So this can be classified as 'asset backed loan' on the books of financial institutions.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

6. What is the 9% interest rate being charged by Bajaj and Hero?

With this data point, we can better estimate the cost of the battery. Or more accurately, the loan taken by customer for BaaS.

- In the fineprint, find out the age after which the battery might be replaced. Let's assume tenure/duration as 6 years.
- Financial instituion is receiving Rs. 5,250 per month as principal plus interest. We have to exclude GST here.
- Total receipts over tenure = Rs. 5250 x 12 months x 6 years = Rs. 3,78,000.
- Interest rate charged is 9% pa reducing balance.

Using the loan/EMI formula & reversing it, the principal works out to be Rs. 3,00,000. So when you opt for BaaS, you are taking on a loan of Rs. 3 Lakhs.

Estimating the price of Windsor without BaaS:

This doesn't mean Windsor, if launched without BaaS, will cost Rs. 10L + Rs. 3L = Rs. 13L ex-showroom. It will cost more than that. That's because EV battery has a terminal/scrap/recycled value (say Rs. 1L) at the end of 6 years, which will accrue to the financial institution, since they are owner of the battery (asset). That is, if we assume that financial institution is giving 75% of the asset value (battery) as a loan, then the actual battery value is probably around Rs. 4 Lakhs.

So if MG Windsor is offered for outright purchase, it might start from Rs. 14L or more ex-showroom. It might be more if the terminal/resale value OR the life of the battery in years is actually higher than the estimates.

[d3mon]

I get the feeling that BaaS is nothing but a loan for the battery. The exact loan amount will be announced before bookings (MG head confirmed this).

The only difference is the monthly EMIs are either fixed or variable.

If you choose 1500km *3.5Rs per KM, that's your fixed EMI.
If you choose Vidyut (0 pay for 0 km), you are just increasing outstanding loan amount without trying to work down the principal with EMI payments.

Come the end of the lease period, MG will come calling for the entire outstanding amount - as simple as that.

All these calculations per km are just distraction from that, and to be honest, quite an effective one at that!

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

So this can be classified as 'asset backed loan' on the books of financial institutions.

Yes, on books that should show up like that. MG will get the money and it will be a loan on the customer. So all the cars irrespective of full or partial payments will be hypothecated under finance

- Total receipts over tenure = Rs. 5250 x 12 months x 6 years = Rs. 3,78,000.
- Interest rate charged is 9% pa reducing balance.

Is this 3,5 Rs Km only for 6 Years? Then how are they guaranteeing battery life? And now, if I am not mistaken irrespective of ownership. I thought this was more like a lifetime lease. You continue to pay until you run the car.

So when you opt for BaaS, you are taking on a [b]loan of Rs. 3 Lakhs.[/B

So chances are they can launch the car at 12,99 soon without all this rental?

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

This can be classified as 'asset backed loan' on the books of financial institutions.

With this data point, we can better estimate the cost of the battery. Or more accurately, the loan taken by customer for BaaS.

- In the fineprint, find out the age after which the battery might be replaced. Let's assume tenure/duration as 6 years.
- Financial instituion is receiving Rs. 5,250 per month as principal plus interest. We have to exclude GST here.
- Total receipts over tenure = Rs. 5250 x 12 months x 6 years = Rs. 3,78,000.
- Interest rate charged is 9% pa reducing balance.

Using the loan/EMI formula & reversing it, the principal works out to be Rs. 3,00,000. So when you opt for BaaS, you are taking on a loan of Rs. 3 Lakhs.

But isn’t this assuming that 3.5 per km @ 1500 km & 6-year is paying off the battery. What if it’s just a lease and bank asks us to pay off the residual value at the end? Then battery pack price would be more than 3L. If its just 3L, i would buy it outright with the car! I assume many others would also prefer that.

Also 9% interest loan seems to be for the car-without-battery?

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Just got a brochure from MG about the BaaS.

Attachment 2654471

PDF as received from MG.

It is clear from the table that it is just an additional loan of 3 lakhs. The fourth option where the low credit rating customer will be charged at 5.8 per km does not make sense to me. If it was a true battery as a service program, why should it matter whether the customer has low credit rating or high credit rating ?