[fazalmirza]

With this new EV policy out and running, would someone please urge the "sarkar" to rethink their hybrid policy.

IMHO, plug-in hybrids are the best solution for India+, by which I mean tier-2 and rural India. At least 50% of us, live in India+. And earn a lot lower per capita.

If only, plug-in hybrids have a similar duty and tax reduction, would we not see a much better EV adoption in say 5 years?
At least, seamless adoption to say the least. India+, I mean.

Case in point: look at the sales of Grand Vitara and Hyryder combined. Even if, hybrids are 20-40% more efficient, should they be not taxed 20-40% less? Effectively contributing to, enhanced EV adoption, plus reducing our country's oil import bill.

Even by best infrastructural stand point, full on EV adoption in the next 5 years seems flawed. Delhi-NCR has average infrastructure. May not be best but better than tier-2 cities.

Let's suppose, all ICE cars were to be culled in Delhi-NCR by 2030-2035 by some "well-thought out" NGT order (read: green people). Everyone, then has to rely on EVs or public transport. So at 5% GST or similar, everyone is forced to buy EVs. How long before Delhi-NCR's infrastructure can support this 100% adoption? Or how long before it crumbles?
It will be like demonetisation all over again, where the intent may have been far-sighted, but the implementation was "meh", more of a mess. Even, then we came out of it, not because of it, but despite it. But let's not expect another "despite it" scenario.

Now, imagine this culling is given 5-10 years notice. We start preparing today. Meanwhile, we have 5-10 years of hybrids. Whereby we prepare our lives for the future, post 2030-2035. Then, in all likelihood, we will have better batteries, super fast charging. 1000 kms of range and less than 20 mins of charging. All hunky dory.

But in this while, give us the hybridization that will make India efficient. That will get it prepared for this technological adoption or conversion. At least, India+. We are a vast country and we have got to take everyone along.

Note: Maruti Suzuki is working on series hybrids for their cars. Hybridization not because of policy implementation but despite it. If only there was a better hybrid policy. Ahh yes, then Mahindra and Tata would also have had to build hybrid cars for at least 5 years. Oh no. They have none. Ouch!

Note again: by the way, this 100% EV policy will come. It may perhaps be already written and stowed away in some bureaucrats folder. We better start planning apartment buildings and houses with this mind. Solar panels, EV charging. Better batteries will come and our mindset to EVs, range anxiety, all will change. Sure, India+ will take more time but will manage.

[Venkatesh]

Mahindra official statement on the new EV policy by the government of India.



Link

[buzzy_boy]

There are quite a few ambiguities related to the policy. For example, would Investment in building a charging network count? Tesla's trump card in other markets is its supercharger network. Without it, nothing much differentiates Tesla from say BYD.

TBH, I'm more interested in Rivian's entry than Tesla's.

[volkman10]

Tesla is the most overhyped company with mediocre products. I will not be surprised if they fail in 'Mission - India'.

A scheme that was known in the industry circle as a Tesla policy – in all fairness – a balanced one, that may put India on the global EV manufacturing map yet again.

With this red carpet being spread out for Tesla (courtesy govt officials), am more interested in seeing how other companies like Skoda, Mercedes, BYD, Toyota take advantage of this lower duty structure and bring more affordable EVs.

The development is likely to incentivise the likes of Foxconn, M G Motor (through JSW), besides Tesla and VinFast, to bring in global models quickly into the Indian market at an attractive price. It could even evince interest of mainstream players like Ford and Volkswagen to invest in the Indian electric vehicle market – which has been on their radar.

They will not only get to choose a zero-emission personal mobility vehicle from the likes of Tesla and VinFast in the Indian market at attractive prices but also compel the legacy players like Tata, Mahindra, Maruti, and Hyundai to offer a competitive model with a highly localised solution.

It all leads to infrastructure, range anxiety and pricing being the topmost factors deciding its success.

Link:

[souravdas808]

Originally Posted by fazalmirza

With this new EV policy out and running, would someone please urge the "sarkar" to rethink their hybrid policy.

We skipped BS5 remember, we skipped 3G, we skipped semi high speed train and track upgradation, instead went directly for bullet trains. India must skip a step or two to catch up with the world. We are already lagging in EV ecosystem, if we spend our talent and resources on hybrid, we would remain weak in both EV and Hybrid.

Bet on one technology. China did it and they are the leaders in EV now, they were nobody in ICE and Hybrid Vehicles. We can have another chance with Hydrogen vehicles, we must put our resources on Hydrogen instead of Hybrid, specially for commercial vehicles. I am glad that this goverment is forward looking and investing in Hydrogen technology.

[TallBoy]

The level playing field applies only to all countries 'except those sharing a land boundary with India'. Any FDI proposal coming from a land boundary country has to be cleared by the GoI, and this is where a lot of investments are currently stuck.

This is also one plausible reason why MG had to sell a significant stake to an Indian partner (at a much lower price than they originally asked for) as their India business was gasping for capital but the parent could not infuse any more.

Vinfast could stand to gain from this policy as they have already broken ground for their plant in TN.

Originally Posted by v01d

I think this opens doors for BYD. Earlier, GoI had rejected BYD's proposal for setting up a factory in India. But now this policy does not state anything specific for China, right? As long as the investment numbers are met, India is offering a level playing field imo.

[bullitt1]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Mahindra official statement on the new EV policy by the government of India.

Attachment 2583404

Link

This was unnecessary. Reminds me of counter ads by Mahindra and Tata when Jeep Compass was launched.

Anyways, the policy should also address two key things, the charging network and the road tax. All these are good for businesses, consumers are damned when there is a choice of global cars and still end up with ICE road tax, atleast in Karnataka.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by fazalmirza

IMHO, plug-in hybrids are the best solution for India+, by which I mean tier-2 and rural India. At least 50% of us, live in India+. And earn a lot lower per capita.

Case in point: look at the sales of Grand Vitara and Hyryder combined. Even if, hybrids are 20-40% more efficient, should they be not taxed 20-40% less? Effectively contributing to, enhanced EV adoption, plus reducing our country's oil import bill.

Even by best infrastructural stand point, full on EV adoption in the next 5 years seems flawed. Delhi-NCR has average infrastructure. May not be best but better than tier-2 cities.
.

GV and Hyryder are not PHEVs, just hybrids.
Hybrids have no infrastructure problems to solve, in case of EVs we have the chicken and egg problem.

So, unless adequate infra is setup people will not buy EVs, unless adequate EVs are present companies won't setup charging infra. Govts support is initially needed to bring more EVs on the road and break this problem.

Even if 100% EV sales happen in 5 years, it takes another 10 years to achieve 100% EV fleet. Norway total EV fleet is still at 30% even after achieving 90% EV sales 2 years ago. We have 15 years to solve our infrastructure issues, meanwhile our fans, ACs, washing machines, fridges are becoming very efficient.

The thought that the grid cannot cope up is wrong, just see how much the grid changed from 1990 to today.

Originally Posted by souravdas808

Bet on one technology. China did it and they are the leaders in EV now, they were nobody in ICE and Hybrid Vehicles. We can have another chance with Hydrogen vehicles, we must put our resources on Hydrogen instead of Hybrid, specially for commercial vehicles. I am glad that this goverment is forward looking and investing in Hydrogen technology.

While I agree what you said about skipping Hybrids. Hydrogen technology is going nowhere. Infact many early predictions of cost parity etc are proving totally wrong. The FCEV sales also collapsing, for long range trucks also EVs prove better than Hydrogen trucks.

[sri_tesla]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Tesla is the most overhyped company with mediocre products. I will not be surprised if they fail in 'Mission - India'.

Wow. Quite a statement there. Mediocre products?

Tesla's powertrain, BMS, infotainment, software integration, smart features, etc... are among the best if not the best. Teslas are also consistently achieved highest safety ratings all over the world. Tesla Model Y with BYD batteries charges faster than the BYD's own EVs due to their superior BMS. Even without 800V architecture and only using 400v architecture, Teslas charge much faster and close to competition with 800v architectures. Their wiring architecture, giga casting are the most innovative. daring and creative methods in automobile manufacturing. Tesla supercharging network is seamless and superior to any other OEM or third party charging networks anywhere in the world. They make their own charging equipment and at much cheaper costs than the competition.

Teslas may not be the most luxurious vehicles out there but they are definitely not mediocre and in fact quite the oppposite. Entire industry now moving towards their innovative manufacturing processes like giga casting, better wiring architectures, etc... Model Y did not became the best selling car by being a mediocre product.

[FocusAssist]

This policy brings new OEMs in India in the premium segment which is a extremely valuable asset for local OEMs. Why? The quality levels (demand of quality local sourcing) will increase. Indian suppliers get more experience, get make more money, and we get more local OEMs being born out of this. An EV manufacturing ecosystem gets created. Win win.

Next, semiconductors please!

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by souravdas808

We skipped BS5 remember, we skipped 3G, we skipped semi high speed train and track upgradation, instead went directly for bullet trains. India must skip a step or two to catch up with the world. We are already lagging in EV ecosystem, if we spend our talent and resources on hybrid, we would remain weak in both EV and Hybrid.

In reality, there is a contrary trend going on in countries like the US which have pushed EVs hard. EV sales growth has been slowing dramatically across western markets. Companies such as Ford and GM make zero profits from EVs even after years of effoets, cross subsidize EVs from the profits they make on ICE cars and hybrids. While sale of EVs rose 45% in the US in 2023 compared to the previous year, sales of hybrid's rose 65% compared to the previous year.

The demand for hybrids in the US, including plug in hybrids, is outstripping supply and many manufacturers like Ford are scrmabling to increase production of hybrids while slowing down on their EV plans. Ford plans to quadruple overall hybrid production in hopes of selling 100,000 units this year. Ford just cannot meet the demand for Maverick, a hybrid pick up truck that has soared in popularity.

BMW is one of the few manufacturers who have been able to profitably sell EVs and increase the share of EVs in their overall.mix Thia is only because they offer a full range of power trains on familiar models such as the 5 series and 7 series, including ICE, hybrid, plug-in hybrid and pure electric and believe that customers should be freely able to choose any power train within a specific model line.

Moral of the story is that forcefully taking away choice, such a hybrids from the mix is not going to promote EV adoption. EVs have to complete on merit from the point of view of desirability for the end customer. Government policies that vastly subsidize one type of powertrain while punishing other types of powertrains will only cause short term distortions in the market and ultimately the customers choice will have to be respected. We will only lose time in developing the overall Indian auto market by putting in artificial restrictions on hybrids.which have a huge potential to reduce our oil import bill and help the planet due to the 60-70% higher fuel efficiency they deliver over equivalent ICE cars. Thr Government should reduce GST rates on hybrids to a point where they become price competitive vis-a-vis ICE equivalents.

[dragracer567]

This is quite interesting, giving tax benefits in lieu of guaranteed investments backed by a bank guarantee. If anyway, I'd say that the government played their card here.

I must say, this should bring in investments from other start-ups like Rivian which just revealed the new smaller R3. Moreever, this would allow companies like Hyundai & Kia to test the market before bringing in expensive EVs for local production.

[volkman10]

The companies will be allowed to import a maximum of 40,000 electric vehicles, at a rate of 8,000 cars per year, at a 15 percent duty.

Where will the 40k imported Tesla's come from?

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Tesla is the most overhyped company with mediocre products. I will not be surprised if they fail in 'Mission - India'.

These were my thoughts exactly till the day I drove one. From outside the simplicity in design can be viewed as cheap by many, and no doubt cost cutting is evident. The truth once you drive it is that one realises it's a superbly engineered and well thought out product.

Back to driving the 3 series, my car literally felt like an appliance. What Tesla has really done is raise the bar so high that as EV competition catches up, they're simply making EVs in general far superior cars to ICE vehicles. Now prices are dropping the last remaining mental block is range. Once affordable normal mainstream EVs break the 400-500km barrier, ICE simply looks obsolete.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Tesla is the most overhyped company with mediocre products. I will not be surprised if they fail in 'Mission - India'.

I mean they have the best performing, best efficiency, best safety, best software plus hardware plus best manufacturing in the industry and are growing 50% YOY in volumes. Infact in pure volumes they are almost already as big as Mercedes/BMW with better margins and profitability. Tell tale signs of a overhyped company with mediocre products.

FYI, I drive a mediocre Model Y Performance which is faster than the faster than the fastest electric BMW SUV, costs almost 1/3, is safer, more practical and has the same or better range. I should sell it off and buy what?

Originally Posted by volkman10

With this red carpet being spread out for Tesla (courtesy govt officials), am more interested in seeing how other companies like Skoda, Mercedes, BYD, Toyota take advantage of this lower duty structure and bring more affordable EVs.

The European makers are barely able to sell their EV's in their home market but are dead in markets like China, USA, Australia and the likes. They arent competitive at all.

As for Tesla investment, if they asked me as a investor in the company, I'd say tread carefully. And I hope they do. But if any company can do it, it is Tesla.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

This is quite interesting, giving tax benefits in lieu of guaranteed investments backed by a bank guarantee. If anyway, I'd say that the government played their card here.

The bank guarantee ironically it not a guarantee. It is still subject to terms and conditions.

Originally Posted by dragracer567

I must say, this should bring in investments from other start-ups like Rivian which just revealed the new smaller R3. Moreever, this would allow companies like Hyundai & Kia to test the market before bringing in expensive EVs for local production.

India is the last thing on Rivian's mind right now. They are hemorrhaging money, not to the extent of Lucid but loosing money of each vehicle sold none the less. They have even suspended their plans to open new $5bn plant in Georgia and are instead expanding their current plant in Illinois.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/ri...2-to-illinois/