[DIY410]

BYD names are confusing, so we have the Seal which is a sedan launched in India.

You have the Seal U which looks like a Seal from the front but from the side its a SUV but has a smaller wheelbase then the Seal Sedan and is slower to accelerate then Atto 3 at 9 seconds 0 to 100. This is because the Seal U has nothing to do with the Seal E platform 3.0

BYD has no plans to get the Seal U in right hand drive and the platform is shared with a plug in Hybrid.

The real SUV version of the Seal will be the Sea Lion, this has the same wheel base as the Seal and also gets the same electric motor and is the export version that will come in RHD.
Sea Lion is supposed to hit the markets globally in second half of 2024.

[sgmuser]

Originally Posted by poloman

We should change our snooty attitude like Volvo being Eurpean (Where as actually it is owned by Chinese) is better to buy than Byd which is more innovative in every aspect and giving even Tesla a run for its money. So we need to set aside our prejudices and look at the offerings objectively. Till that happen don't think Byd will have success in our market.

Bring a sub 40L, >500Km range SUV with Seal DNA, I will readily switch to EV. Not to be held back by chatter of Chinese companies being unreliable anymore.

How many kms you have put in with BYD. Even Hyundai asking 40+ lakhs for their ev is a big ask for an automobile company with a great track record especially in India. BYD being a Chinese brand is just one part of the story. Whats their track record in ev and in India? Whats their portfolio, strategy on sales and support. Chinese brands had proven time and again they are not the one to be trusted like Japanese for e.g. Trust is built over multiple decades. Not just by one product. Let them spend 10 years here, deliver excellent quality and price to beat the competition and Indians are the first one to stand in line. We want cheap, realiable products. No question about that. But we don't want cheap, fake and unreliable products from unreliable companies. Unfortunately Chinese brands had done a lots of damage to themselves and we aren't the reason for that. Starting from mobiles, toys, other utility products and upto even automobiles.

Btw, what's wrong to only but Indian made products? It's nothing wrong. Even such an advanced economy like US, I have personally seen the slightly older gen prefers to buy the top 3 American brands in cars. Why not us? Chinese do the same. The Chinese government is behind many of these campaigns to push locally grown companies and deter politically the outsiders. Just try to sell one Tata or Mahindra there and feel the meaning of red tape. They behave like India 30-40 years back.

Finally, Chinese are notorious for their dumping strategies. By dumping they will simply wipe out the competition and no way you can fight them as they have the financial might to even take loss and kill the competition. If you want to buy an Chinese ev no one is stopping, atleast we are in an open economy and we allow these Chinese products.

Last but least 50 lakhs for this sedan is actually rubbish IMHO. After seeing the seal, Ioniq makes so much more sense. Such a beautiful product and for me if not for the design (like a hatch) and the ground clearance I would have just got Ioniq 5. For that matter, I did not consider Kia as my perception is that Hyundai offers better products. My2c. Good luck.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by darkchild82

And this is the current state of Avatr

Attachment 2580585


And the state of Neta, another EV startup.

Expect many more such news about Chinese EV brands in 2024

So, how does this change what I have said? Forget the multitude of brands there, their present state/ financial health. What is relevant to this discussion is that the future (performance at a reduced price) is here and domestic manufacturers better prepare for it.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by sgmuser

How many kms you have put in with BYD. Even Hyundai asking 40+ lakhs for their ev is a big ask for an automobile company with a great track record especially in India. BYD being a Chinese brand is just one part of the story. Whats their track record in ev and in India? .

Sir, you can wake up a person who is sleeping but not a person who is pretending to be asleep. Elon musk and other US automakers had ridiculed Byd way back 2010-12. But now the same Elon musk today is admitting the world beating capabilities of BYD and similar companies.

Request you to read more about BYD and watch review of BYD cars specially Seal on youtube. Most expert reviewers have put this car on par with Model 3 or even better. Their battery tech is one of the best and used by many of the Car companies you trust. About Indian car makers who use customers as their QA testers, less said the better. BYD is min 5 years ahead of them in EV tech.

No one is giving good certificate to Chinese govt or their intentions. We are talking only about BYD and their current superiority in EV tech. We should not forget on date more than 60% of Indian smartphone market is dominated by Chinese companies. So it is difficult to become onslaught of cheaper but competitive tech from China unless you put up unreasonable trade barriers.

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by sgmuser

BYD being a Chinese brand is just one part of the story. Whats their track record in ev and in India? Whats their portfolio, strategy on sales and support. Chinese brands had proven time and again they are not the one to be trusted like Japanese for e.g. Trust is built over multiple decades.

You have Tesla, Mercedes, Suzuki, Toyota etc signed up or are already using BYD batteries. You have BYD suppling electric motor and controller to Citroen and other OEMs. While LG is scrambling to make a LFP battery plant.

Not just by one product. Let them spend 10 years here, deliver excellent quality and price to beat the competition and Indians are the first one to stand in line. We want cheap, realiable products. No question about that. But we don't want cheap, fake and unreliable products from unreliable companies. Unfortunately Chinese brands had done a lots of damage to themselves and we aren't the reason for that. Starting from mobiles, toys, other utility products and upto even automobiles.

BYD has been producing EVs about the same time Tesla started making the roadster.
You can easily dismiss the Chinese products but if you go look at the youtube channel project farm. You will notice that Chinese companies are beating made in German and Switzerland products.

Btw, what's wrong to only but Indian made products? It's nothing wrong. Even such an advanced economy like US, I have personally seen the slightly older gen prefers to buy the top 3 American brands in cars. Why not us? Chinese do the same. The Chinese government is behind many of these campaigns to push locally grown companies and deter politically the outsiders. Just try to sell one Tata or Mahindra there and feel the meaning of red tape. They behave like India 30-40 years back.

In todays world if you cannot even be competitive with 70 or 100% import duties. The Indian or any other company needs to explain why. We have a lower labor cost advantage vs the Chinese.
In the US all of the automobile companies went bankrupt except Ford and Tesla because their products sucked at some point.

Tata and Mahindra can easily go sell in Russia if they want but they wont, the Chinese can. At least Mahindra is trying to sell Thar in Russia with a different brand name, since thats the one place Stellantis cannot sue.

When Toyota is not able to compete in China how can Indian manufactures compete there, when we still import all the electronics, coolant and air conditioning pumps, power steering, ECU etc from China. Have the Indian OEMs done anything to change this.

Last but least 50 lakhs for this sedan is actually rubbish IMHO. After seeing the seal, Ioniq makes so much more sense. Such a beautiful product and for me if not for the design (like a hatch) and the ground clearance I would have just got Ioniq 5. For that matter, I did not consider Kia as my perception is that Hyundai offers better products. My2c. Good luck.

Have you seen or driven it, your prejudice is dismissing the product before you have seen it.
South Korea auto makers are shivering at the thought of BYD entering its market.
https://www.kedglobal.com/electric-v...ed202402120004

Ioniq 5 for all its good look, the battery cooling is one of the worst. Cell to Cell temperature variation is very huge. They also use more then 10mm of thermal compound between the cells and battery casing making a poor thermal conductive barrier.

The reason Korean makers do not have a LFP is because they only use korean batteries from LG and SK Innovation korea, who are currently scrambling to make LFP cells.

[vij]

Originally Posted by haskelerator

Look at the review and comparison on Carwow. Things are not as rosy as it seems. Much lacking in the handling department and can't be compared to any Tesla, let alone a BMW or Porsche.

Irrespective of what we may claim, I guess we are still easily swayed by just some performance figures and a low price. How the power is put down matters a lot. No wonder the Koreans have our market cornered and Ecosport, Endeavour are gone. :(

https://Youtu.be/tezLYZHWkK4

The review seems to have a healthy dose of bias. Also why is the guy reviewing the handling of BYD Seal on rainy wet roads

[ZenMaster]

Originally Posted by evolvo

I guess the sane thing to do is to completely remove the BYD badging both front and back. This is a super slick car and looks very Taycan’esque - even more so without the lame badging.

I think the same goes for the horrendous “Build your Dreams” rear badging on the current Atto 3 in India. The newer versions abroad simply say BYD. I guess it’s a good idea to not have any badging for Atto 3 too…looks super slick!

Even I feel the same. What they are truly lacking is a great logo. If they can creat a great looking logo a lot of people wouldn't be second guessing themselves when deciding whether they like the vehicle or not.

[antz.bin]

Choosing to purchase a BYD car ultimately boils down to personal preference.

However, the recent product launch has sparked discussions, especially among enthusiasts. This conversation didn't quite happen with the ZS EV.

Initially, the ZS EV, despite being a good car, was priced higher than expected for what it offered compared to its internal combustion engine (ICE) counterparts. It provided slightly better performance at a slightly higher price, but it wasn't groundbreaking. This contrasts with the Seal.

The Seal entered the market with a compelling value proposition that ICE counterparts simply can't match, even at triple the price. While we can set aside on-road performance comparisons, the Seal's performance claims at its price point impressed enthusiasts. It's essentially created a price barrier for ICE sedans, and when the Sea Lion arrives, it'll likely do the same for 5-seater SUVs. Cars priced even within a 5 lakh range below them will inevitably be compared. This will likely impact the pricing of cars like the Compass, C5 Aircross, and Tucson.

Currently, the Seal's appeal is somewhat limited due to its sedan classification, but with the Sea Lion on the horizon, things may change. Over time, people may consider these vehicles when shopping for luxury brands like GLC, X1, Q3, and Q5. Simply being in that consideration space is a significant achievement for BYD, akin to Hyundai/Kia's success when people cross-shop Ioniq 5/EV6 against luxury brands.

MG already has a head start with its India factory and it offers competitive products in the lower price range when compared with other BYDs. However, it will face similar price constraints as it moves up the value chain. This price ceiling will likely impact products further down the value chain, ultimately benefiting consumers looking for less expensive options.

[84.monsoon]

I am sure there is intense lobbying going on right now from TATA and Mahindra to block BYD somehow. The Government wants Tesla in but not Chinese manufacturers, even if they promise local manufacturing.

Look at what happened with Android smartphones. I bought my first large screen premium Samsung Galaxy Note 3 phone over 10 years ago (in 2013), for Rs.49,999 as I wanted a big screen phone and this one had a 5.7 inch screen. It was a fortune to pay up in those days, but there were no alternatives. Iphone had only a 4 inch screen then.

If it were not for Xiomi, prices of monopoly Samsung premium smartphones would have escalated just like iphone prices. Today, you can buy a classy near-flagship phone like the IQOO Neo 9 Pro for 35K. Chinese competition made this possible, it put such amazing devices in the hands of millions of Indians.

Domestic smartphone industry is pretty much still where it was back then, brands like Lava has long gone under. I hope we will have more success in the auto industry, as we have strong domestic players. But if the tariff barriers are so high like they are today (70-100%) it will make the domestic players complacent and lethargic, and the Indian customer will have to overpay, just like we do for iphones today due to lack of competition.

[sgmuser]

Originally Posted by poloman

admitting the world beating capabilities of BYD and similar companies.

Xioami mobile (China brand, fairly a new company in mobile segment, sells more than Apple, Samsung etc. So? Elon's words are like warranty? He has a big stake when it comes to his investments in China. He would never ignore that.

Originally Posted by poloman

Request you to read more about BYD and watch review of BYD cars specially Seal on Youtube. Most expert reviewers have put this car on par with Model 3 or even better. Their battery tech is one of the best and used by many of the Car companies you trust. About Indian car makers who use customers as their QA testers, less said the better. BYD is min 5 years ahead of them in EV tech.

Subject is changing now. Battery tech is different. ZF makes the best Torque Converters does not mean they can become the best car brand. Car has many more aspects and Chinese quality control by history, needs to go a long way to come on par with others in the business for 100s of years. They have muscle to put in billions in R&D and recruit ex-employees of the other top manufacturers and will come up with many groundbreaking tech and patents. It is just the normal course of action but TIME is a big factor and they can not buy time. Buying a car, that too an EV with just Youtube reviewers is enough? I am surprised at this!

The points I am making simply is, if you want to buy BYD, please go ahead. But, bashing people who support local manufacturing and local job creation is simply unacceptable. I am proud to own a Thar and a BMW (Both are either manufactured or assembled local) and I was very particular in that. On top of that, the Chinese yet to prove their quality and you need to wait for at least 5 years. Very simple. But again, if you want to be the beta tester, please go ahead do so.

Check this out

link

Check this video as well.

[Hume]

At the outset, May I politely ask if we could keep this thread a bit more on topic devoid of jingoistic fervour please? I see it's either this or EV-ICE arguments. Frankly I could do without them for we have other threads that go into these a bit more but whatever works for everyone.

Arguments can certainly be made on both sides of the EV-ICE, Local-Foreign & India-China spectrum and honestly, I don't wish to argue anyone into any of the above points nor do I wish to be subjected to by anyone's opinion of what they think is correct. For it is by the end of the day, all relative to the person making the choice.

I don't like to delve into the above dynamics also because I believe in a capitalistic economy in which the consumer SHOULD have all the choices he/she wants and I'll gladly leave all the policies relating to the above to the policy makers. The most I will do is vote accordingly in the next elections if I feel strongly about any aspect particular aspect.


Now, just to tell you where I come from in general or what I like about the Seal:

• I started enjoying vehicles all over again with the advent of EVs. I enjoy the silent drive, enjoy the instant torque and performance on offer and I also love the fact that I don't have to ever go to a gas station - ever. Most excited is the democratization of performance that they brought about. I love the fact that I CAN purchase a 0-100km in 3.8s vehicle for 55 Lakhs if I were to choose to, which until now I'll admit remained sort of a fantasy. And I like any product, they certainly have their shortcomings. Let's just say that EVs just work FOR ME.
• I also personally value a vehicle that's made with premium materials, offers lots of features, comfortable, has good performance and driving dynamics AND that comes at a price that I am comfortable with.
• And as you can tell by now, I do not care where they are made.

Notwithstanding some of the youtube reviews shown on this thread - which almost FEEL hand-picked (not saying they are), and after having gone through a multitude of other review videos, I personally believe BYD Seal accomplished the above criteria that I care for with great success. Kudos to what they've built globally and for wanting to commit to India long-term! If this is the kind of products I can expect from their stables, I wish them all the best!

I for one am very excited for the times ahead!

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by camaroon

The strategy of undercutting the competition price using mass production with government subsidies, killing the production abilities of the competition and then leveraging production monopoly has been tested and proven. Now it has come to automobile sector. However competition is good for the end customer for price discovery and reduces complacency on others.

This is not price discovery to be honest, its more akin to dumping which all countries should have safeguards against. Indian homegrown EV industry is at a nascent stage and dumping will kill it faster than we can imagine.

So while yes free market and competition is good, and we definitely cannot go back to a license regime, nonetheless there should be checks and balances including steps to protect our homegrown IP and market.

Indian EVMs don't have deep enough pockets to withstand this onslaught.

Mod Note: Our BYD Seal Report has been taken live at this link. Please continue the discussion over on the new thread. Thanks!