[ferrarirules]

With the falling EV prices and tax benefits still in place (5% GST + '0' or less Road tax in most states). I was trying to see how do EVs compare to Hybrids today.

I picked all 4+m cars (One exception - Explained later) that are available in Hybrid or EV avatar.

Following is the pick of cars -

1. MG ZS EV - Excite or Exclusive
2. XUV 400 - EL PRO - 39.4 KW
3. Hyundai Kona - Premium
4. Tata Nexon - Empowered Plus LR
5. Toyota Hyryder - V Hybrid
6. Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara - Alpha Plus Hybrid

Price comparison of all the cars



Below is my take on EVs vs Hybrids based on the price and features analysis

1. XUV400 EL Prod 39.4 KW

It has come a long way since the launch. It just misses on one crucial EV feature selectable regen.



Savings over an hybrid - Rs. 4.5 lakh

Additional features compared to the hybrid cars:

1. Dual Zone Climate control
2. Decent boot space. Battery doesn't eat into the boot.
3. 10 inch Instrument cluster and 10 inch infotainment system

Missing features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Panoramic sunroof
2. 360 camera

Detailed review (Mahindra XUV400 EV Review)

2. Tata Nexon - Empowered Plus LR

The car is a sub 4-m car but it punches above its weight. It is a feature and tech loaded car.



Savings over an hybrid - Rs. 2 lakh

Additional features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Decent boot space. Battery doesn't eat into the boot.
2. 10 inch Instrument cluster and 12 inch infotainment system
3. EPB and Auto hold

Missing features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Panoramic sunroof
2. Space is cramped due to raised floor (Not a feature but a big problem for taller people)

Detailed Review (2023 Tata Nexon.EV Review)


3. MG ZS EV - Excite and Exclusive

MG was long constrained due to lack of investment (govt policies). Investment from JSW group has brought about a new push. The new competitive pricing is a reflection of the same.

Coming to MG ZS EV has the best battery size available in the segment today.



Model - Excite

Savings over an hybrid - Rs. 2 lakh

Additional features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Decent boot space. Battery doesn't eat into the boot.
2. 10 inch infotainment system
3. EPB and Auto hold

Missing features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Sunroof
2. Wireless Phone charger
3. Leatherette seats
4. 360 camera
5. Ventilated Seats

Model - Exclusive

Additional Cost over an hybrid - Rs. 2 lakh

Additional features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Decent boot space. Battery doesn't eat into the boot.
2. 10 inch infotainment system
3. EPB and Auto hold

Missing features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Ventilated Seats

Detailed Review (2022 MG ZS EV Facelift Review)

4. Hyundai Kona - Premium

This was the first proper EV in the country launched in 2019. Still it holds relevance in the market shows, how advanced it was for its time. Hyundai needs to update it to the global model.



There are unofficial discounts upto 4 lakhs running on Kona. The below comparison is based on the declared ex-showroom price.

Additional Cost over an hybrid - Rs. 2 lakh

Additional features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Decent boot space. Battery doesn't eat into the boot.
2. EPB and Auto hold
3. Heated Seats

Missing features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Smaller Infotainment display (7 inch)
2. Panoramic Sunroof

Detailed Review (Hyundai Kona : Official Review)

5. Toyota Hyryder - V Hybrid

India finally got proper hybrid cars in 2022. Hyryder is a competent car and toyota is known for its reliability and fuss free ownership



Additional features compared to the EV cars:
1. Panoramic Sunroof
2. HUD

Missing features compared to the EV cars:
1. Smaller Infotainment display (9 inch)
2. Smaller Instrument cluster display (7 inch)
3. EPB and Auto hold
4. Smaller boot (Battery taking up boot space)

Detailed Review (Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder Review)

6. Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara - Alpha Plus Hybrid

The car is similar to Toyota hyryder, thanks to toyota-Suzuki partnership. It is just about the badge when picking either of the car.



Additional features compared to the EV cars:
1. Panoramic Sunroof
2. HUD

Missing features compared to the hybrid cars:
1. Smaller Infotainment display (9 inch)
2. Smaller Instrument cluster display (7 inch)
3. EPB and Auto hold
4. Smaller boot (Battery taking up boot space)

Assumptions
1. Took 24 kmpl average for a hybrid car
2. Took electricity rate at Rs. 8 per unit.

My thoughts - If you have heavy city usage and do occasional outstation trips, EVs are an better bet today from pure economics standpoint.

Based on this comparison, what will you buy today?

Disclaimers:
1. This is not a EV vs Hybrid and their pros and cons discussion. This thread is more about "bang for one's buck"
2. This is not a discussion about govt policies - how EVs are taxed lesser than hybrids.
3. I have not compared subjective things like ride quality, build quality, looks, After Sales service etc. as that depends on person to person liking and experience.
4. I have not included Kia Seltos, Hyundai Creta, Skoda Kushaq, VW Taigun and Honda Elevate as there is no hybrid version.

[lsjey]

Not sure why City Hybrid is not listed. If this option is added, I’d have selected that. Also Hycross. All Hybrids need to listed to get a perspective. I always prefer a hybrid over the BEVs in India as of now. BEV tech is still changing fast and no one knows who will make the moolah in the end nor is it clear which OEM will last and provide good BEVs.

I’d stick with Hybrids until this market and technology resolves itself.

Regards,
Lsjey

[neethi_raj]

Very Interesting and Logical choice of vehicles to choose from. I agree with almost all of your views except for one. EVs are good enough for more than the occasional road trip, especially the 50kw battery of the ZS EV will be absolutely comfortable for 90% of the situations.

Also, ZS EV exclusive is overpriced for the additional features it offers.

My choice is the ZS EV excite. it is very lucrative after the recent price drop/ low end model launch.

Do keep us posted on your choice and the buying experience.

Happy Choosing!!

[saket77]

We can only compare upfront acquisition costs this way. After a few years, say 8-9 years, an EV will require a battery pack change. I assume same for hybrids. EV battery pack cost would work out to be many fold of that of hybrids as the battery capacity is much higher. On the other hand, proper strong hybrids cost more than an equivalent EV today. Only if policy makers would have understood the nuances better, they should have come up with a better tax treatment for hybrids which is probably a better bet in today’s time when EV technology and infrastructure stabilise.

Personally I just wish that the Hybrid City came with manual transmission and a more reasonable price tag over the petrol variants.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by lsjey

Not sure why City Hybrid is not listed. If this option is added, I’d have selected that

I didn't include Honda city Hybrid as it is a sedan and rest of the cars are CSUVs. So it would not have been a like to like comparison.

Originally Posted by neethi_raj

Do keep us posted on your choice and the buying experience

I already own a Nexon EV Max 2.0. I created the thread to put forward the comparison and help people make an informed choice.

Having said that had I been in market today for a new car. It would have been tough to decide on which EV to buy. My heart would have wanted to pick Nexon.EV as it ia feature packed and my head would have wanted to pick MG ZS excite just because of the bigger battery size. In the end head would have prevailed over the heart

Originally Posted by saket77

After a few years, say 8-9 years, an EV will require a battery pack change.

For an EV car to require a battery change, the battery state of health needs to reach 80% or below. Most batteries will give minimum 1500 charge cycles before state of health reduces to 80%. With modest range of 250 kms per charge cycle, you can easily run 3-4 lakh kms before battery replacement is required. In that 3 lakh kms, you would have gained a running cost advantage of Rs. 9 lakh.

[GTO]

The choice of hybrids is way too limited today and that's only because of Toyota's lethargy. It's a technology that was available even 20 years ago, but well, that's Toyota India for you. Today, there is a far greater choice in EVs which is a far newer tech.

In terms of tech, whether hybrid or EV really depends on your running pattern & whether you have provision for even a basic 15A home charger (home charger is a MUST for EVs).

Leaving the tech aside, if we look at the kind of models available, I find the Grand Vitara / Hyryder to be very uninspiring, boring to drive, average quality interiors & an unrefined drive (Honda City Hybrid is far superior). The kind of EVs we have today blow the Maruti-Toyota twins away in terms of product competency. Where the Maruti-Toyota siblings are boring, the competing EVs are fun!

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Following is the pick of cars -
1. MG ZS EV - Excite or Exclusive

Is it possible to add the MG ZS Executive as a nominee. I think that would be best VFM now as of now.

While I own a Kona and love the vehicle especially its efficiency (even in India's chaotic traffic), i refrained from voting for it due to a critical Battery Cooling flaw that the vehicle has. (Hopefully it will be addressed in Kona's next version.)

The MG ZS Executive or even Excite model is a blind pick for me, considering the price to battery capacity advantage over other EV's and advantage in running efficiencies over any hybrid.

Disclaimer: Range & charger anxieties were easily solved by a bit of planning, and hence feel these are over rated concerns.

Originally Posted by GTO

The choice of hybrids is way too limited today and that's only because of Toyota's lethargy. It's a technology that was available even 20 years ago, but well, that's Toyota India for you.

Absolutely, i still recollect driving the Toyota Prius almost a decade back and going "Wowww".
Toyota and the government, i dare say, messed it up. Toyota never focused on the product and the govt's taxed it like an ICE.

Originally Posted by saket77

We can only compare upfront acquisition costs this way. After a few years, say 8-9 years, an EV will require a battery pack change.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

With modest range of 250 kms per charge cycle, you can easily run 3-4 lakh kms before battery replacement is required. In that 3 lakh kms, you would have gained a running cost advantage of Rs. 9 lakh.

AS ferrarirules put it, this is where most people are completely misguided.
There are cases of even 10 year old Nissan Leaf's which are still running without any significant battery degradation.
There are BYD E6's running in China as taxi's which have crossed 5 Lakh kms and literally any noticeable drop in range.
I think we need a comparative study proving how quickly an ICE engine deteriorates giving lower efficiencies vs how slowly an EV's battery deteriorates to put this misinformation to rest.

[sumeethaldankar]

If one has a spare gas powered car than going for an EV is a good idea as once you the hit highway for a long drive the range anxiety will kick in. If one can have only one car than as far as today is concerned getting a hybrid makes more sense. The Honda's hybrid City claims to get ~20 kmpl something in city traffic which in my books makes it a great buy. I voted for the Toyota though.

[KL01toKA03]

I think that in any EV vs hybrid comparison it would be wise to pick an EV.

Hybrids will definitely be costlier to maintain compared to an EV, since maintenance is needed for the engine and the battery. Also, fossil fuel prices will increase, while electricity prices could remain stable due to the government's plans to incentivize solar power generation. So, the break-even point could arrive much earlier than anticipated.

Battery replacement could be a worry for EVs, but a similar worry should exist for hybrids also. However, most cars of the current generation should last 10-15 years on the factory fitted batteries.

Considering these factors, I voted for the Kona though the Nexon too wouldn't be too far behind.

[Shresth_EV]

Disclaimer : Already own the Nexon EV prime since Nov21 (21k km done)

My preference would obviously be EV because my running is high enough to justify EV premium but not high enough to justify hybrid premium. For my own calculations, my EV breaks even with Nexon diesel in 4y at around 40K km The same for hybrid will be in excess of 120K km.

I also have home solar so anything without a plug is inherently costlier to me.

So it would only make sense to use hybrid in my case if running is exclusively on highway trips longer than 200km on daily basis. I doubt many people fall in this category, including me.

Hybrid is worst for low city use because you’ll probably never recover the premium spent, at least 100km per day in city is needed. EV can breakeven in half of that distance ie 50km per day.

Assuming two ev’s and hybrids cost same (say 25L) then owing to lesser recurring costs (charging and service is still cheaper than fuel + service) the EV will always be cheaper and you can never break even on hybrid vs EV.

This can be represented by a simple linear equation y = mx + C, C being fixed cost (purchase) and M being the cost/km, X being distance driven and y being the total expense

As simple math tells us, the slope (m) for EV is less steep than hybrid, thus there would be no point in the graph where there is an intersection point between the two linear equations.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Shresth_EV

Hybrid is worst for low city use because you’ll probably never recover the premium spent, at least 100km per day in city is needed. EV can breakeven in half of that distance ie 50km per day.

Assuming two ev’s and hybrids cost same (say 25L) then owing to lesser recurring costs (charging and service is still cheaper than fuel + service) the EV will always be cheaper and you can never break even on hybrid vs EV.

This can be represented by a simple linear equation y = mx + C, C being fixed cost (purchase) and M being the cost/km, X being distance driven and y being the total expense

As simple math tells us, the slope (m) for EV is less steep than hybrid, thus there would be no point in the graph where there is an intersection point between the two linear equations.

How come we don't see anyone asking if a few extra lakhs spent on hybrids for 3-4 kmpl extra return on FE is justified? I mean the way we see excel spread-sheets and calculations/charts on EV pages, asking if extra few lakhs on EV are justified vis-a-vis an ICE car.

BTW, I voted for Nexon EV. Facelifted Nexon is way ahead of rivals in almost all departments.

[Kosfactor]

There was a time when diesel was all about saving fuel - and then specifically in our market the CRDi happened, especially the Verna. It changed this a lot, suddenly you could save money on fuel and have fantastic performance from the engine. Swift VDi is another milestone in this from an overall accessibility of the technology in Indian market perspective.

I am hoping Hybrid would come off age and offer something nice in those lines, else I`m sticking to Turbo - Diesel \ Petrol.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

There was a time when diesel was all about saving fuel - and then specifically in our market the CRDi happened, especially the Verna. It changed this a lot, suddenly you could save money on fuel and have fantastic performance from the engine. Swift VDi is another milestone in this from an overall accessibility of the technology in Indian market perspective.

I am hoping Hybrid would come off age and offer something nice in those lines, else I`m sticking to Turbo - Diesel \ Petrol.

I agree, a good diesel > hybrid any day.

But disagree with the Verna CRDi bit, much before that I think the India tasted and appreciated common rail diesel technology in cars with the introduction of the Accent CRDi followed by the Octavia TDi.

[antz.bin]

In the Indian context, the primary contender challenging Hybrid vehicles is CNG.

Both Hybrid and CNG formats stem from conventional ICE cars, necessitating compromises on boot space.

When comparing the Nexon iCNG with the Hyryder and Grand Vitara Hybrids, the former doesn't significantly lag behind in terms of space, practicality, or running costs. Moreover, the Nexon is substantially more affordable and possibly more powerful as well. From a purely financial standpoint, opting for the Hybrid Toyota Hyryder may not be logical, especially when considering its CNG counterpart, which is 4.2 lakhs cheaper in the identical G trim.

For taxi operators, minimizing operational costs is crucial. While CNG taxis are common, and certain operators also run eVeritos, Tigor EVs and ZS EVs, vehicles like the Hyryder and Grand Vitara Hybrids are rarely seen due to their higher purchase costs, running costs and compromised boot space making them particularly unsuitable for airport runs, unlike similarly priced EVs.

Regarding long-distance travel, even a Diesel vehicle can outperform a Hybrid in terms of running costs and luggage space.

EVs stand out in their own category. Models like the ZS EV or Kona offer substantial city range and feasible highway range, making road trips viable with minimal planning and short charging stops. Given the human need for breaks during long drives, these charging stops coincide well with meal breaks.

Hybrid vehicles cater to a niche audience with balanced highway-city usage. If city driving predominates, EVs are generally superior, whereas for extensive highway travel with luggage, Diesel vehicles prove more advantageous.

[electric_eel]

There is not much point in a hybrid. It is an outdated technology. I voted for Nexon EV because that is the one I am familiar with and have had a very good experience so far. I think ZS EV is a superior car and I like its styling better but was costlier at that time. If I were to do the buying today I would go for the puch EV that is not here (not test driven but I have always liked the punch better than Nexon).

The only other EV, other than Nexon EV, that I have test driven is the Kona (thanks to EV_Fan and his courage). While it is a fantastic car with its paddle shifter and the overall drive train tuning, I had a scare when I scraped its bottom at an especially large speed breaker. In general I am a small car person and I think will be very happy with a tiago EV as well though admittedly its shorter range will make some of my trips unnecessarily complicated.