[sgmuser]

Ha ha classic click bait... But here you go. Even if all the Japanese companies go bankrupt there will be one standing... For the next 100 years or atleast 50 years. Landcruiser 70. Many in Africa or Middle East (guess who?) need this. LC70 alone and with LC200, 300 will run Japanese economy. Jokes apart it's surprising Toyota is so lazy in ev. At least Nissan had a headstart with Leaf and Aria. But rest of the Japanese automakers are not able to innovate or at least we are yet to see any thing fruitful. This shows their mindset is fixed in ICE and still couldn't believe this paradigm shift is happening OR that's what it looks like to me. Except Toyota and to some extent Honda, rest all are having nothing else other than ICE. Only Toyota is successful in Hybrid which still depends on ICE. Toyota just started to show off some ev models. Just compare this with China, US and even India. Japanese is nowhere to be seen. Unless otherwise the top 3 Japs put all their might into ev space and catch up in the next 5 years this title might be proven to be a true scenario. IMHO.

[neerajku]

Such an informative thread though, some are too detailed to hold interest. At a very cursory level one can easily say that mobiles, laptops, gaming consoles, the largest selling items no on remembers them while buying, except Sony for consoles. For cars they still have a global edge but the way Koreans have been taking the share, rather one Korean company, they will beat everyone before long.
In services they were never present, language being the biggest barrier. So one large segment is gone.
EV is another miss for them. Hybrid will forever be seen as transition one, despite so many issues with EV.
Future, may be defence electronics or equipment. They are now very active and soon will have planes, ships, long range guns coming out of the Japanese giants. Will be an interesting battle.

[DigitalOne]

Coincidentally, I just posted yesterday in the "Understanding Economics" thread (Understanding Economics) on how green shoots are appearing in the Japanese economy.

One of the quotes from the youtube video is "When the world was in the 1970s, Japan was in the year 2000. When the world ihas moved on to 2024, Japan is still stuck in year 2000".

[Raskolnikov.R]

Originally Posted by neerajku

Future, may be defence electronics or equipment. They are now very active and soon will have planes, ships, long range guns coming out of the Japanese giants. Will be an interesting battle.

As much as I would like to agree with you, I don't see possibilities for the above.

The reason being their pacifist constitution.

They cannot go to war.

They don't produce offensive weapons (afaik).

There is talk of partnering certain countries in the EU for next-gen fighter aircraft. However, it will be quite sometime before that will see the light of the day.

I'm betting on Hitachi Nuclear Power to make a bang (in a positive way!) with a small, modular fusion reactor (SMR) that's easy to get from the drawing board to an actual plant. Given their brilliance at miniaturizing technology, I truly hope the Japanese do get a good foothold in the nascent space.

[neerajku]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov.R

As much as I would like to agree with you, I don't see possibilities for the above.

The reason being their pacifist constitution.

Your comment would have been right if it was early part of this decade. They have changed the constitution and also their stance. And US which was the one holding them, has actively encouraged them. Their defence budget has dramatically increased given that they have a perennially hostile neighbour.
In engineering and Hitech skills they are second to none. And have started developing cutting edge weapons and some variety of warplanes and engines.
Yes atomic energy is another area they can make a difference and with Trump back, this source may get a filip.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by neerajku

Yes atomic energy is another area they can make a difference and with Trump back, this source may get a filip.

Trump back? What news are you reading? He may be the GOP nominee, he still has to win the election. (And, not go to jail)

It's quite a stretch to say Japanese are second to none in high-tech (in general) these days, and also go on to say they have "started developing warplanes and engines". What specific area in high tech and engineering are the Japanese companies second to none? Private space exploration, Weapons of destruction, consumer electronics, EVs, AI, software?

Softbank making money abroad, is a testament to them seeking value outside Japan. I also grew up liking Japanese products and swearing by them. Today, I do not see them actively investing and participating/winning in anything that is coming up in this decade. If people bullish on the Japanese prospects can point me to such data, I am happy to learn and be less bearish.

[neerajku]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Trump back? What news are you reading? He may be the GOP nominee, he still has to win the election. (And, not go to jail)

It's quite a stretch to say Japanese are second to none in high-tech (in general) these days, and also go on to say they have "started developing warplanes and engines". What specific area in high tech and engineering are the Japanese companies second to none? Private space exploration, Weapons of destruction, consumer electronics, EVs, AI, software?

There are a lot of websites and news which can tell you about US politics. Try google news, they aggregate and tell you the recent opinion polls, general unhappiness about Biden policies. Can share a few links if you want. WSJ, NYT are good informative sites assuming not heard of them.
For Japan do an internet search you will find work going on in developing anti ship missiles, warships, UAVs, long range guns, fighter jets,
Hope that helps!

[Raskolnikov.R]

Originally Posted by neerajku

Your comment would have been right if it was early part of this decade. They have changed the constitution and also their stance. And US which was the one holding them, has actively encouraged them. Their defence budget has dramatically increased given that they have a perennially hostile neighbour.
In engineering and Hitech skills they are second to none. And have started developing cutting edge weapons and some variety of warplanes and engines.
Yes atomic energy is another area they can make a difference and with Trump back, this source may get a filip.

They've indeed increased their defense budget. However, the weapons you purport Japan to be developing are almost entirely of defensive stature. And the Japanese wouldn’t sell their defense technologies abroad.

EDIT: I just read that on December 23, 2023 Japan has allowed the transfer of locally produced weapons.

However, it is limited to the Patriot missiles they produce domestically under license from Raytheon. The move is to satisfy an American request to source weapons for Ukraine.

The very fact that Japan is not selling directly to Ukraine explains their stance on future arms exports. At best, they'll sell the arms they make under license to a few Western countries. Beyond that, I don't see them ever dominating the international arms market.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Japan has a future only if they open up their market, and not merely to the West, but also South Korea and Japan to an even greater degree.

As for the ‘perennially antagonistic neighbor,’ you’d be well advised to read up on Japanese atrocities during the Second World War in the Chinese Mainland and the Korean Peninsula. Enmity exists for a reason.

To add context to the above statement, much of the animosity stems from Chinese and Korean opposition to Japanese political leaders paying a visit to a Shinto shrine to honor fallen Japanese military figures, considered war criminals by the affected countries. And the Japanese keep doing so at random intervals.

If Japan wants to improve its external relations, it also needs to take the initiative to cool down the rhetoric. They’re submissive to their conqurers, but have shown no contrition towards those whom they affected the most.

As for Trump, I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch.

[ChristComesSoon]

Here is an unconventional, but totally provable, view on Regional markets and Tech Innovation.

What comes to mind when the lens is zoomed out is that, countries/Regional_markets don't play on a level-playing field now in this era.

The deafening clarion sound of the trumpet is how the world and its industries, innovation & markets are moving to Globalization - and it does no longer matter where innovation actually happens.

A few thoughts in this regard:

1. China has been able to "steal" tech innovations from other countries by closing their eyes to patent laws, regulation, labor laws. The chinese govt has a stake in almost all of the big companies in China. They are therefore able to flood the market driving global competitors out of business.

2. Innovation happens entrepreneurially - but gets bought by big tech.
There is no longer any doubt that big tech is more powerful than Govts. No govt. really can regulate big tech. It's the other way round.

3. The start-up culture of Silicon Valley which can be argued was organic - was in a different era - before Big Tech, before the Internet, before Smartphones and before Tech-globalization.

4. Innovation in High-tech companies are quickly consolidated into the Big Tech companies - who are now controlled either by a global cabal or certain govt alliances.

Innovation, Entrepreneuership still happens - but it does not matter who does it - the benefit no longer is at a country/region level - it is more to be viewed as: who are allowed to stay in power globally.

The US is 34 Trillion dollars in debt! Manufacturing was taken away by players allied with global shadow organizations - literally making it unfeasible to sustain manufacturing within the country.

And yet, the seat of power in Tech - continues with "corporations", bankers, and globalists - an entity that floats above market forces, governments and law.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by gururajrv

I agree tech field is now leveled up with Japanese when you pit it against India, China. However, there's one crucial trait what India and China lack, is the lack of Discipline and Finesse in terms of providing durable & reliable products as against Japs. They're still way ahead in terms of maintaining quality. This is where we need to pick ourselves up. Else, world will start to miss the finesse levels. This is purely from an automobile standpoint.

I dont think there is any similarity left between India and China now except for population. Have you even looked at what China has been producing lately?

Originally Posted by UNSC117

People hate the Prius all over the world. Still, even with the new Prius, I feel it's simply a great looking car with slow engine and a slow hybrid motor. Toyota should seriously focus on EVs and their rise. The lord knows that the Japanese are really not having a great time in the Indian market (except MSIL of course) Nissan is seemingly dead now with their Magnite, Honda only has a few models, Toyota keeps screaming at the face of the govt. about taxes. However sad it may be, feels like the rise of Japanese companies is coming.

People dont hate Prius, automobile snobs do, just like they hate Camry's and Corolla's but its not reflected in their sales. While European and American manufacturers are getting out of the sedan game, Toyota soldiers on with Camry and Corolla both. Not too long ago Prius was the darling of the virtue signalling Hollywood celebs.

[UNSC117]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I dont think there is any similarity left between India and China now except for population. Have you even looked at what China has been producing lately?
.

I agree, modern Chinese cars are just mind blowing. Gone are the unsafe copy cat cars.

[Raskolnikov.R]

Toyota home ground becomes base for drone and space start-ups
Aichi prefecture seeks to develop future forms of transport as next driver of region’s industrial growth


https://www.ft.com/content/e394e1fb-...6-895069ac665e

Start-ups developing future forms of transport such as space planes, drones and flying cars are emerging in central Japan’s Aichi prefecture, home to Toyota Motor and its suppliers, driven by a sense of urgency to foster industrial momentum amid challenges from the arrival of electric vehicles.

PD Aerospace, a start-up that hopes to develop private space travel, said it had benefited from choosing Aichi as its headquarters.

“Auto businesses share a sense of crisis,” said chief executive Shuji Ogawa, that EVs have put engine parts makers in a plight. “Toyota, as well as smaller companies, seems to have expectations for aerospace as a cutting-edge arena where its development of engines and decarbonised fuels can be utilised.”

His company depends on local factories, most of which are Toyota partners, to process the parts necessary for prototyping the space planes. It has also been in talks with Toyota and big automotive parts manufacturers such as Denso and Aishin, which are part of the Toyota Group, to explore areas of collaboration.

Moreover, Toyota Tsusho, the trading arm of the Toyota Group, is one of the start-up’s investors. “Toyota affiliates have a strong presence in the community, and their actions can have an impact. Having part of their capital gives us more credibility when it comes to fundraising or recruiting,” said Ogawa.

The prefecture and its neighbours have been a national hub for aircraft manufacturing since before the second world war and now hope to re-establish the industry as an industrial pillar.

At the forefront of such ambitions was the development of small jetliners through a public-private initiative led by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. But the Mitsubishi SpaceJet project, which started in 2008, was derailed last year because of sluggish progress and mounting losses.

Aichi is now looking towards start-ups seeking to develop future forms of transport as the next drivers of the region’s industrial growth.

The local government hopes to build on that momentum as it prepares to open a start-up incubation centre, Station Ai, in the prefectural capital of Nagoya in October. The facility, built and operated by SoftBank, plans to accommodate about 1,000 start-ups.

In 2023, the prefectural government launched a co-operative effort that involved four mobility start-ups, the Toyota-affiliated company Jtekt and Nagoya Railroad. It aims to accelerate “air mobility” such as drones and flying cars and advance their autonomous operation.

The effort was proposed by the start-up Prodrone, which was founded in 2015 and is now developing load-carrying drones dubbed “flying pick-up trucks.” Chief executive Shunsuke Toya says Aichi is a “juicy” place to have a headquarters.

“We can find all the skilful engineers we need. We also employ a few who used to work for Mitsubishi Heavy,” said Toya. Local companies have “outstanding, world-class” skills in processing the key aircraft materials of carbon fibre material and aluminium, and “being close to them means getting tasks done quickly”, he said.

Toya echoed the points made by PD Aerospace’s Ogawa, citing the region’s “cohesive culture” as a unique strength. “From the prefectural government to local universities, banks and start-ups like us, there is a mutual support system that has helped us in fundraising and other stages,” he said.

Aichi officials working on start-up support said the engagement of big companies will be the key. To achieve that, the new incubation centre plans to host not just start-ups but also established companies at home and abroad.

One question the prefecture needs to address is how to enhance financial support, according to Ogawa. “Effective fundraising and capital policies are vital to start-ups, but here it’s difficult to raise money or find people to consult on strategy, compared to Tokyo,” he said.

“Aichi’s entrepreneurship has mostly been weak but will probably grow from here with Station Ai and other initiatives,” said Toya. “The region is capable of solid manufacturing, so solid start-ups should emerge as well.”

[Raskolnikov.R]

https://www.ft.com/content/0d9004fc-...0-484a068d2ec4

The Japanese robots are coming, Europe
EU’s tight labour market combined with tech advances mean demand for robot workers is increasing

Japanese robots are going to become a more common sight in Europe. Rising wages are boosting demand for factory robots that can process everything from handling food to welding cars. For their manufacturers, which are starting an aggressive push, there is room for growth.*

Fanuc, one of Japan’s largest robotics companies, has quadrupled the size of its Spanish sales hub near Barcelona, adding to its expansion in Europe where it already has 10 facilities, including in Germany, Italy and Turkey.

Until now, demand for robot workers has been largely concentrated in Asia with about three-quarters of newly deployed robots installed in the region. Asia’s urgent need for automation has been growing over the past decade as low birth rates and a labour shortage from an ageing population increasingly cause problems for companies.

China has long been the largest market for Japan’s robot companies. The number of robots used in manufacturing in China reached a ratio of 322 units per 10,000 employees in 2021, exceeding robot density in the US. For Fanuc, the country accounted for almost 30 per cent of its sales in fiscal 2022.

But Chinese orders during the quarter to December quarter fell more than a third, the biggest drop among the markets it operates in. That is partly down to the local economic slowdown but also the results of price competition from local rivals that are entering the market.

The cost of a standard robot arm is about $330,000. As labour costs rise around the world, the required investment to improve productivity is starting to look more attractive than ever before. Growth in negotiated wages in the eurozone rose 4.7 per cent in the third quarter last year, the highest on record, before slowing slightly to 4.5 per cent in the fourth quarter.

Companies were already struggling to find workers in the EU’s tight labour market. Volkswagen has been using Fanuc’s robots for about a decade. The machines themselves are also becoming more sophisticated, able to handle an increasing number of tasks, such as painting, welding, quality inspection and handling dangerous chemicals. Generative artificial intelligence functions will help increase the scope of robot activities as object detection and real-time decision-making enhance efficiency and productivity.

Shares in Fanuc, which boasts gross margins of almost 40 per cent, are down a fifth from their June peak reflecting concerns about a slowdown and mounting competition in China. But Europe, whose revenue contribution to group sales is only 17 per cent, provides ample room for growth. The robots are coming.

[shankar.balan]

We can hate them and revile them and get all Jingoistic and all.

But there is no denying that the Chinese have attained a level of competence in manufacturing, quality, finesse, innovation, marketing, reliability and dependability in 30 short years, which we in India have not been able to achieve in 80.

The World Order has Changed.

The Old order changeth, yielding place to the new; To Quote Tennyson.

[shortbread]

Brilliant chat, very much related to this thread. How the Japanese operate and how their historical strengths have turned into their Achilles heel currently!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyPU...annel=MotorInc

PS: There's a brilliant bit from the 9th minute onward, where Shumi spills the beans about how Japanese companies are reluctant when it comes to letting Indian journalists drive/ride in Japan. Following that you hear about the poor Japanese air hostess trying to navigate the task of distributing designated meals among Indian passengers in the cabin - an excellent anecdote as to how the Japanese are sometimes tied down by process instead of applying common sense!