[mally2]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Thanks for the suggestion but BYD Atto is a ‘Van’. And without wishing to cause offence, I’d rather not be the ‘Man in the Van.’ However, it does merit a drive trial for sure because from all accounts it is an accomplished vehicle and definitely adds value to specific use cases.

I think you are confusing the Atto3 with the E6

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by mally2

I think you are confusing the Atto3 with the E6

Thanks. Shows how ignorant I still am in the world of EV’s.
Saying that, the BYD Atto 3 seems a bit Seltos-Creta-like in the sense that the design is more mainstream.
And that E6 definitely isn’t a vehicle that I have an use for. Honestly while looks are very subjective, I like the Kona’s looks better. And the new Gen 2 Kona’s looks are definitely a cut above the Gen 1.
But the Ioniq5 is in a totally different league entirely!
(Images are all off the net for representational and comparison purposes only.)

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by mally2

I think you are confusing the Atto3 with the E6

Ok. I have never even considered BYD. Pure lack of Knowledge and mind-set problems with Chinese products. However, when viewed in isolation, it honestly seems to be a very worthy product, this BYD Atto3 and their newer concept SEAL. I shall certainly study more about it. Thank you for opening my eyes and mind-space to at least getting to do some research on this.

[mally2]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Ok. I have never even considered BYD. Pure lack of Knowledge and mind-set problems with Chinese products. However, when viewed in isolation, it honestly seems to be a very worthy product, this BYD Atto3 and their newer concept SEAL. I shall certainly study more about it. Thank you for opening my eyes and mind-space to at least getting to do some research on this.

Yeah BYDs are on par with Tesla's. and I too love the new gen Kona, if only money grew on trees

[GKR9900]

Ferrarirules has already given some detailed explanations regarding your queries. Here is my take on them.

Disclaimer: I am a complete noob when compared to efficiency-related calculations. For me, a realistic range of 250 km was well and good. I was initially considering the Nexon.EV and XUV400, both of them having their range around this ballpark figure. So the added range in the Kona is a bonus for me.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

1. Can the Kona take me and my wife and our luggage from Bangalore to Ooty up the Sigur Ghat on one single charge. Or from Bangalore to Chennai on one charge. The main thing for me is a range-anxiety-free and fearless drive.

I haven't exclusively driven through the ghats to assess the rate of discharge. It is definitely on the higher side. Have noticed a difference in consumption in the MID when climbing up an incline also. As mentioned by ferrarirules, you could do it without range anxiety in an Ioniq 5 /EV6. In the Kona, a charging stop might be required, probably before the ghat section. If I were to travel along such a route, I would check any of the charging apps, stop at an area before the ghat section with a cluster of chargers available (just in case some of the chargers are occupied/defective), juice up, and then resume the journey.

Plugshare app is something that you can use to gauge the charger density at various locations. Other apps are also available.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

2. You’ve mentioned that there is a difference in DTE between AC Overnight charging and DC high speed charging. Over a few cycles of this, what is the difference in DTE that’s been observed?

Ever since reaching back home, I had only done one fast charging, that too at a 50kw station just for the sake of it. Charging till 80% showed a DTE of 275 km. Usually, when I juice up using the portable AC charger till 80%, the DTE is around 300 km. Read somewhere that this has something to do with cell rebalancing or the like. EV fan had also mentioned about slow charging episodes offering more range.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

3. While the DTE as per the MID has been observed, is there some data on real-world DTE from charge to charge?

I have only recently started noticing the efficiency-related numbers. For the initial few days, you can't stop yourself from mashing the accelerator to experience that mind-numbing acceleration

So I charged up till 100% using the portable slow charger and the range shown was 353 km, with AC on. ODO was at 2543 km.



2 days of work commutes later, the battery was at 67%. DTE shown was 236 km. ODO was at 2668 km.

So the ODO ran 125 km, while the DTE reduced by 117 km. A simple back-of-the-hand calculation puts consumption figures at almost 3.78 kms for 1% of battery. My current running cycle comprises predominantly town traffic, with a complete standstill at certain areas and a few km stretch of highway. Not much elevation changes on the route I travel though. Usually I am the only one in the car, so AC is in driver only mode. But occasionally a second passenger will also be there, so AC will be adjusted accordingly. I also use the ventilated seats quite a bit. I use the paddles extensively, but still figuring out certain aspects to eek out higher efficiency. General rule of thumb is to try coasting and regen whenever possible. Extrapolating my current consumption pattern, I am good for 378 kms with 100% battery. Realistically though I expect around 350 kms. Not bad, considering I was only looking at getting a comfortable 250 kms from an EV.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

4. Typically how many days between charges?

There’s no hard and fast rule. My daily running is around 60 kms minimum. I usually plug in to charge when the battery is close to 20%. Irrespective of battery %, I do top up to 80 or 100% at the beginning of every week though. There’s something about seeing a full battery in your car at the start of the week.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

5. Considering the above, is there a similar 'charge depletion' observed in an Electric car like the Kona too? If yes, then please illustrate.

Charge depletion doesn’t occur much when an EV is switched off and sitting idle for even months at a time. Like other members have said, when the car is going to be left unused for a prolonged period of time, make sure that it’s at 50-60% SoC. If you’re asking how fast the charge depletes when it is turned on and idling, it depends on the usage of various electronics in the car. I have sat with the Kona turned on using the air conditioner for 30 mins or so, and the efficiency figures were very low, somewhere around 2-3 km/kwh, the longer the idling period the worse it’s gonna be.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Thanks for the suggestion but BYD Atto is a ‘Van’.

Atto 3 is the SUV from BYD, E6 is the van. Both capable cars. Atto3 is a looker, has loads of space, based out of a ground up EV platform, but misses out on the paddles and ventilated seats compared to the Kona. But there are a lot of other features that it has. It’s bang in the middle of your intended budget also.

[evtdtorque]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I would therefore, like to wait a bit and see when this Hyundai Kona Gen 2 comes out in India. This is because I would be interested to buy an EV which is priced attractively, looks good, is functional, offers superlative fit, finish and finesse, has a great suspension set up, performs more-than-adequately, offers the maximum quality and value and has a proven real world driving range of 400kms on a single charge.

For the new cars like Skoda EV coming in future, we will have to wait and see how reliable and safe they will be, prefer to wait for atleast 2 years for issues to settle. Kona had issues for first 2-3 years, almost everything sorted after that. For high end cars mentioned, if we leave aspirational aspect of brand, they don't offer anything significant over 20-30L segment EV cars. In case of ICE counterparts in luxury segment they have superior engines with exciting power and torque numbers that motivates enthusiasts. Coming to efficiency of electric motor, with limited knowledge I have, I don't see any breakthrough in last 4-5 years. Infact most of the gen2 motors are tuned to have softer output to increase range even if user floors accelerator. If you want more range simply the battery capacity has to be higher.
I was in same dilemma last year whether to go ahead with current gen Kona or wait for updated Kona or bigger cars like Ioniq5. Since this will be 2nd car in garage, ruled out Ioniq5 as with bigger dimensions and 3000mm wheelbase, its not easy to drive in Bangalore. Regarding wait for updated Kona, personally I didn't like updates coming in new gen cars like bigger screens to play videos. They need powerful processor with increased cost to play on this HD screens. With simple touch screen infotainment system in Kona, electronics consume 10-15% of battery, AC with ventilated seats another 15-20% and rest for motor. Updated Kona can include 360 degree camera, ADAS tech etc. Each of these updates will drive OTR price higher and draw more power from battery reducing range for a given kwh battery. Govt of Karnataka can start road tax for EVs anytime soon. With all these factors, updated Kona or anticipated Creta EV top end might be priced 50% more OTR compared to current gen Kona. If you get Kona with year end discounts, its a good deal for a ckd at Nexon LR pricing

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by GKR9900

I haven't exclusively driven through the ghats to assess the rate of discharge. It is definitely on the higher side. Have noticed a difference in consumption in the MID when climbing up an incline also.

To get an approximate idea of range in ghats may be you can try some calculation like the following

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/elect...ml#post5528664 (Range Anxiety versus Highway Anxiety with electric cars)

It is probably possible to make such calculations more accurate but I found such back of the envelop calculation sufficient to plan trips. You will need to have an idea of your efficiency on relatively flat ground though. What I felt is that after my first 1000 km of driving, I was pretty comfortable predicting the range (about 50 Km for 15% SoC). Note that pessimistic assumption is better while planning.

Just to add. Google maps with walking chosen shows elevation data. You can use that. Also due to the magic of regen, you only need to know the elevation difference of the start and end point and not the actual trail (although one can make the prediction more accurate with exact terrain data)

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Thanks. Shows how ignorant I still am in the world of EV’s.

Adding to the input's from others.
BYD Atto - focus seems on function sometimes even sacrificing a minimal bit of comfort & fun. I think it seemed far more mature & stable system, i think even more than MG & hyundai.
Even the E6 seemed a no-nonsense, function oriented car. It just is meant to go the distance like none other.

MG - well sorted & ticks almost all boxes. Only thing i found was their programming has left little room for experiments. Especially compared with the pre-facelift, the thought process seems to be slowly moving towards a more conservative/stable BMS & drive control system, indicating "let us handle this, you just drive it".

Hyundai Kona - A driver's car, almost seemed to have forgotten that rear passenger's do exist. An experimental platform if i may say so, can operate in the spectrum of punishing fun to dignified maturity.

MG Comet - Did you give this one a try. Strictly applicable if you have something for long distance. Keep it for city traffic and Nipping around, can bring a smile to your face.

Tata - Sad that you rejected them. But yes i was also scared of their niggles & the service back then. If atleast their service support would have been compassionate, the probability of niggles could have been easily overlooked.

Inoiq & EV6 - A class apart. They are 2 sides of the same coin, easy to fall in love with any one of them.
But the reality of service costs, once the honeymoon period is over, shellshocking.
You have to overlook the upkeep costs and see it as a fun+function investment, compare them to bmw and audi's not to hyundai's & kia's.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by GKR9900

Ferrarirules has already given some detailed explanations regarding your queries. Here is my take on them.

Adding to Ferrarirules & GKR9900's.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

1. Can the Kona take me and my wife and our luggage from Bangalore to Ooty up the Sigur Ghat on one single charge. Or from Bangalore to Chennai on one charge. Truth be told, I don’t want to experience ‘rapid discharge’ in such situations and then get high BP and Palpitations.

I use pythagoras theorm, reduce the elevation effect to the vehicle's DTE you are getting in flat's.
High Range DTE^2 = Flat Section^2 - Elevation^2
Further reduction of 5-10% for the traffic and you have it. Worked for me.

All said & done, first time going up the drop in figures still popped my eye even though i had expected it and charged at the base of the climb. You might want to do a test run once, alone, if i may suggest.
Best would be, if you can conserve the momentum in a single shot all the way and avoid stop & go. Elevation can be scare for DTE but stop & go on elevation is outright - a merciless killer.

But coming down i was grinning ear to ear, Kona's MID was struggling between increasing charge %age and increasing efficiency value.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

2. You’ve mentioned that there is a difference in DTE between AC Overnight charging and DC high speed charging. Over a few cycles of this, what is the difference in DTE that’s been observed?

It's less evident as DTE but more as charge density.
Ex: If the ODO ran 125 km, while the DTE reduced by 117 km with AC charging.
With DC charging, you might get an odo run of 121 km while DTE reduced by 117km.
I keep a buffer of approx 5%, it is more noticeable on elevation's than on flat section's

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

3. While the DTE as per the MID has been observed, is there some data on real world DTE from charge to charge?

DTE starts at around 353 & goes up or down as it gets more trip based data for improving the accuracy of estimation (all based on your driving style). No shortcuts to estimate this as it is specific to your driving style.
GKR9900 got around odo-125 km for MID DTE-117km and that's when his 100% DTE is 353km, i can get odo-130km for MID DTE-117km even when my 100% DTE shows 393km.

(The highest MID DTE hardcoded is 393, even when people have got odo reading of even single charge range of 420 & more).

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

4. Typically how many days between charges?

Same as GKR9900 pointed out. Mostly 80% to 20% with occasional 100% to 20% & rare run downs to 1% to 0%.
Just so that system keeps getting data for full range of charging/discharging figures.
Long Distance Trip readiness is always at 100%.

How many days would be based on your running but most EV's can be happily charged to full, overnight, at your home.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Considering the above, is there a similar 'charge depletion' observed in an Electric car like the Kona too? If yes, then please illustrate.

Percentage-wise it is far lesser than a phone. A phone's core - the mobile network is in standby even if unused by user, EV's drivetrain is powered off & not on standby when unused, only some minuscule electronics's consumption.
For me 0% drop over 2 weeks when the Kona was left unused courtesy Hyundai service.
But i have seen posts from more experienced members indicating somewhere as less as 1-2% when left unused over month long vacations.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by evtdtorque

For the new cars like Skoda EV coming in future, we will have to wait and see how reliable and safe they will be,
BYD Atto - focus seems on function sometimes even sacrificing a minimal bit of comfort & fun.
MG - well sorted & ticks almost all boxes.

Hyundai Kona - A driver's car, almost seemed to have forgotten that rear passenger's do exist.

MG Comet - Did you give this one a try.

Tata - Sad that you rejected them.

Inoiq & EV6 - A class apart.
You have to overlook the upkeep costs and see it as a fun+function investment, compare them to bmw and audi's not to hyundai's & kia's.

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Adding to Ferrarirules & GKR9900's.

Best would be, if you can conserve the momentum in a single shot all the way and avoid stop & go. Elevation can be scare for DTE but stop & go on elevation is outright - a merciless killer.

But coming down i was grinning ear to ear, Kona's MID was struggling between increasing charge %age and increasing efficiency value.

1. Skoda Enyaq pictures don’t look so attractive.
2. BYD Atto’s Blade Batteries seem to be very powerful. I am test driving a BYD soon.
3. MG ZS is a family wagon. Not what I am looking for.
4. MG comet. Its cute but again not really what I am looking for.
5. Hyundai Kona - I like it. And I prefer all my cars to be ‘driver’s cars’ because I do not carry passengers.
6. Tata - They were totally disorganised and didnt even seem to be interested. And they could not give me a test drive because they has lost the keys! Frankly their fit and finish and finesse is still not in the league of the Koreans.
7. Mahindra - will be nice to see what their born EV thing is. The present crop are ICE converts and dont have the requisite range.
8. Ioniq5 and EV6 - Definitely a class apart. Yes I would compare them to the Germans but theynstill represent EURO Quality and Luxury at a more realistic price than the Germans. Ref costs of maintenance and upkeep is there a sufficient sample pool of real life data which supports the statement of high costs?
9. Keeping the momentum going up the hills. Well, one can only be as fast or as slow as the other road users. Cant expect in India at least, to blast up the hills. Best to budget for Elevation Plus Stop and Go. No way out really, especially on a weekend and on those roads.
10. Indeed the regen on the downhill stretches is something else entirely. It is palpable even on the gentle rolling landscape of Bangalore. I can certainly imagine that it will be much more in the actual hills.
11. Today’s news is Maruti’s entry into this EV game! This means the EV world is set for a higher gear of growth in the foreseeable future.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

2. BYD Atto’s Blade Batteries seem to be very powerful. I am test driving a BYD soon.

It is more than a worthy contender

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

5. Hyundai Kona - I like it. And I prefer all my cars to be ‘driver’s cars’ because I do not carry passengers.

Dont forget the low Ground clearance. It's almost like a honda jazz or ford figo. Rest is absolutely enjoyable.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

7. Mahindra - will be nice to see what their born EV thing is. The present crop are ICE converts and dont have the requisite range.

-ves
Their treatment to E20 & Verito owners.
XUV400 did not like its non-adjustable driving modes/regens, major turn off for me.
Low Efficiency KM/KWh
No rear ac

+ves
Rides good, really good. Not even the passengers would complain unlike in other cars
Good GC
and the back seat

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

8. Ioniq5 and EV6 - Definitely a class apart.
Ref costs of maintenance and upkeep is there a sufficient sample pool of real life data which supports the statement of high costs?

Ask the cost of consumables and timelines - you will get to know.
The niche CKD can be punishing sometimes.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

9. Keeping the momentum going up the hills. Well, one can only be as fast or as slow as the other road users. Cant expect in India at least, to blast up the hills. Best to budget for Elevation Plus Stop and Go. No way out really, especially on a weekend and on those roads.

Very true. Only thing i could manage was a bit of defensive driving - keeping a bit of gap. was not hurrying to close the gap so comparatively lower stop/start's than atleast the vehicle in front.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

10. Indeed the regen on the downhill stretches is something else entirely. It is palpable even on the gentle rolling landscape of Bangalore. I can certainly imagine that it will be much more in the actual hills.

Best time to put back all the extra juice that was lost going up. Always managed more than what i had started at top.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

11. Today’s news is Maruti’s entry into this EV game! This means the EV world is set for a higher gear of growth in the foreseeable future.

This would be worth looking out for.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

It is more than a worthy contender

Dont forget the low Ground clearance. It's almost like a honda jazz or ford figo. Rest is absolutely enjoyable.

Ask the cost of consumables and timelines - you will get to know.
The niche CKD can be punishing sometimes.

Best time to put back all the extra juice that was lost going up. Always managed more than what i had started at top.


This would be worth looking out for.

1. But it is Chinese. I still have to actively get my head around biases and prejudices.
2. Low GC yes compared to a Jeepy thing. But Ive been managing the self same drives in my 12 year old Mini Cooper S. (on my Kona test drive I did bash the left side cladding under the door sill on one of our lovely mountainous speed bumps. Being a longer car this is likely if one is not careful. Here is where Rogerab comes in handy.
3. I understand your point about costs and timelines. My Cooper S has helped me learn these things, especially in India, over the last 5 years.
4.Ive been a hill driver since early youth. Hence will never try unnecessary tricks when going up or down those roads.
5. Maruti. Indeed the flagbearer of democratisation.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

1. But it is Chinese. I still have to actively get my head around biases and prejudices.

Dangerous ground, not going to comment on that one.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

2. Low GC yes compared to a Jeepy thing. But Ive been managing the self same drives in my 12 year old Mini Cooper S. (on my Kona test drive I did bash the left side cladding under the door sill on one of our lovely mountainous speed bumps. Being a longer car this is likely if one is not careful. Here is where Rogerab comes in handy.

I think some Kona owners tried it and screwed it up big time, please do not be under the illusion that you may be able to utilize it. Your purchase decision must be under the assumption that the Kona has to be used with the stock suspension, with all the 45deg maneuvering on the speed breakers.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

5. Maruti. Indeed the flagbearer of democratisation.

I am really looking up to this one. I just hope they don't come up with another scam, like selling PHEV and claim subsidies of BEV's
They are well known for their SHVS scam.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...tech-shvs.html (Maruti gets notice for the second time for 'dubious' hybrid tech (SHVS))

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Dangerous ground, not going to comment on that one.

I think some Kona owners tried it and screwed it up big time, please do not be under the illusion that you may be able to utilize it.

I am really looking up to this one. I just hope they don't come up with another scam, like selling PHEV and claim subsidies of BEV's

1. I test drove the BYD Atto3 today. I will write my impressions in the BYD Atto thread.

2. I used Rogerab for several years on my Yeti and it worked perfectly. I also have installed it on my Dad’s Glanza and indeed it makes a massive difference in not bottoming out. Why shouldnt it work for the Kona too?

3. Indeed Im looking to see what they come up with. But then, it will not be in the same league as the Kona and all.

[shankar.balan]

One more test drive of the Kona today. It is a lovely car indeed. In every way. Just like my Skoda Yeti was. Perfect proportions. Small footprint, Compact, manoeuvrable with a well weighted steering. Good luggage room. Solid build, Good handling. Responsive. Comfortable. Not too big of a screen and all. Tactile feel and great switch gear. It has a Spare in these days!

It looks like a nice big hatch. A bit like that I20 Active, on Steroids and thats not a bad thing.

The niggles in my head are still on account of the following;

It does (despite that 170mm ground clearance) bottom out on some of the Elephantine and Sharply inclined, non-banked, un-marked Speed Breakers of Bangalore, if one misses seeing the obstacle and doesn’t slow down to crawl speed. I drove it all over my neighbourhood back streets where there are plenty of these. There is even one place with a huge hume-pipe underground and is like a sharply defined hillock.

Any car other than a Thar or similar which has really high ground clearance and short overhangs, approach, ramp break-over and departure angles, will definitely scrape the front bumper lip at approach and hit the underside or under-door sills when crossing the hillock and maybe bash the rear overhang at departure.

To overcome this issue, even in my Yeti (which despite its good GC and short overhangs, used to bottom out at times on these self-same speed-breakers under full load, I had put those Rogerab Modulators and they did the trick. I really want to be comfortable that they will work just as well in the case of the Kona.

The anxiety about ‘range’ - basically going Bangalore to Ooty via the Sigur Ghats on a single charge.

The fear about buying a 5 year old product,especially when they have already released its newer and improved Version 2/ Gen 2 in other markets, with a much bigger battery and better range and all that.

The sheer options that are already available even in our market, if one were to move to a segment or two higher up.

The lingering ‘tingle’ after seeing and driving the Kia EV6 and Ioniq5. (If they would release a scaled-down-in-size, Ioniq5 while keeping all the features and range and all intact, and call it the Ioniq3, then that would be the absolute perfect car in my book.)

The fact that the whole EV segment from all accounts is about to heat up considerably with lots of nice options.

Saying all this, the discounted price at which they are offering a 2023 variant, is very tempting.

This is an interesting circumstance for any prospective buyer to be in at this moment.