[EV Fan]

While I would greatly appreciate any pointers to escalate this matter. This post is more of a reality check
- For anyone looking at the Hyundai EV's, if there are no EV certified Hyundai Service Center in near vicinity. Lack of EV specific experience/expertise at the service center, can get severely aggravated by the long distance transit for service
- The Kona specific EV Gyan thrown around by service personnel, better to know the facts and not to believe them blindly.
- Stigma of EV adoption can be quite bothersome especially in face of apathetic service network. And if it is the only car of the household then you are in for hell of a ride.


Kindly bear with me as this post is going to be quite long & detailed. I guess a 4 month long ordeal, when detailed enough, can itself be an ordeal.

The purchase decision - Why a Hyundai Kona?
- Mature & International Product: Almost believed it, till I got to experience a known issue
- Stress free service (in terms of competitors): Hoped for it, till my first hand experience here with Hyundai in Kerala
- Incredible efficiency: Absolutely, can’t get the same KM/KWh figures in the other EV’s

Unfortunately though, the service entailing the vehicle ended up burying the admiration I had for it.

It started in July as an AC failure during DC Fast Charging (critical component for an actively cooled battery pack - Technical info at the end of the post).

As per Hyundai service center at Thiruvananthapuram, it was as simple as “Compressor & Expansion Valve failure / replacement - a common issue with Kona”. Unfortunately post the fix, the sound soon restarted indicating the replaced compressor had also failed (I was to later realize that this was a systemic failure on part of the service center in diagnosing the issue and testing the fix - so bound to reoccur).

Another round of a so called thorough diagnosis and careful repair work in September by their more experienced staff and EV expert in Kochi. As expected it recurred, since the same procedure had been repeated albeit a bit "more carefully". But this time, the issue almost resurfaced with a vengeance, it was immediate and far worse than the last time they fixed it.

So after a lot of assurances the vehicle is now taken away for a 3rd trial & error attempt in November. The vehicle is sitting ducks at their service center since last 3 weeks and a communication which reeks of unprofessional-ism if not downright apathy (one message in SMS & Whatsapp of apology after calls for inquiring about status).

Worst part is out of my spite, I even refused their loaner car. I guess, the social stigma - an idle ICE in the parking (I am most probably not gonna drive it) after boasting about an EV in my family was enough to refuse their loaner ICE.

The entire saga has dragged now for more than 4 months, 3 failed Compressors and it has turned into “Something that they have not seen before” kind of an issue.

And all this while, my impression of their EV service, has kind of nosedived. Some of the Key realizations with Hyundai EV Service (atleast the Kerala Dealer) were:

1.) Hyundai EVs will only be touched upon by EV specific centers and None Other. No other Service center will touch it as they are not allowed to open a job card for it. Not for pickup/drop, not for puncture, nothing, they just won’t accept the vehicle.
So the customer is in trouble if they don’t have an EV specific service center nearby and it becomes the customer’s responsibility to manage the pickup/drop to service center.

In my case, since I was in Chengannur, I now had an option to drive all the way to Thiruvanathapuram - 125 kms South or Kochi 125 kms North.

2.) No pickup/drop, no loaner vehicle. Their excuse was "they cannot extend this facility for such along distance".
So for me it meant dropping off the vehicle, figuring out the 125km return trip without the vehicle (sometimes unplanned thanks to negligence of service center) and then go back the same distance to pick the vehicle on a later date. Was aware of Bangalore dealers providing all these amnesties especially for critical issues and it had registered as a red flag before giving it for service but then did not bother much.

3.) EV Misinformation by Service Personnel While they were quite knowledgeable, their “EV Gyan” related to fault diagnosis, troubleshooting and “ignorance of customer” rubbed me the wrong way. It could have been dismissed simply as irritable, only if, this unfounded Gyan was not a baseline for their troubleshooting and testing.
Some of the EV facts twisted to EV Misinformation(felt almost like EV Superstitions).
a. Misinformation – Kona needs to be DC charged regularly (once in a month) and not sporadically else the expansion valve gets stuck, blowing up the compressor.
Fact – Kona's BMS can automatically start the active cooling, operating the expansion valve, if battery temperature is above 22degC and vehicle operation or charging requires temperature control. Could not find exact algorithm/parameters.
I have seen “Battery Care”/ cooling kick in even when doing regen (highest regen with paddle shifters pulled).
The worst case scenario is in a cold environment if someone only relies on AC charging, then the only way battery temperature can go up is when we do DC fast charge.
I think the service center guys want to be on the safer side & issue a blanket statement to customers to do DC fast charging regularly every month, without explaining the facts.

Source:https://electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/...gement-design/

b. Misinformation – AC fast charging and operating the cabin AC, in parallel, is equivalent to full load testing like a DC Fast charging session. A major failure from Hyundai’s end, as this testing mechanism masked the superficial diagnosis and the symptomatic fixes they had been doing without fixing the root cause.
Fact – As stated above, the actual threshold is not publicly declared by Hyundai but I think a low ambient temperature can prevent the active cooling from kicking in during AC charging. As in another Kona, the “Battery Care” consumption did not show any load under similar condition and the Cabin AC load (in KW) remained the same as before charging had started.
c. Misinformation – Keep the ignition on while putting fast charger otherwise it will affect AC compressor. Do not put car on charger without turning on ignition.
Fact – The manual clearly mentions “Before charging the battery, Switch Off the vehicle”. Moreover if the BMS cannot trigger the active cooling then it would be a critical flaw.
d. Misinformation – Operate cabin AC while DC Fast Charging otherwise it will affect AC compressor.
Fact – Technically this will save the compressor but will mask the underlying issue of a failed Battery cooling system.
In my case during the DC Fast charging since I was having lunch (and not sitting inside the car operating the AC), the blocked, chiller circuit’s - expansion valve, led to compressor failure. If the cabin AC was operating the coolant would have been able to flow in the cabin AC circuit and the compressor would have been saved. But I may not have noticed the failure of battery cooling, only experiencing an unexplained throttling down of the DC Fast charging wattage.

4.) Clarifications on Service/Timelines (on service parts) seemed on a shaky ground. While I do understand, that sometimes service entails unexpected delays. It was unacceptable that the personnel were insensitive to the fact that I was coming down a long distance and casually justify their oversight on the timeline for a planned repair.
During 1st service, even though I had specifically clarified that if there was any possibility of delay then I would prefer to do it sometime next week as I was hard pressed for time. They promised same day return, but on the day of the repair work, after opening up the car the delivery timeline gets pushed to next day as they now realized it would take longer than a day. (Was an unnerving red flag).
The concern was more on the effect it had on my schedule and the unplanned travel (on both the day of vehicle drop and pickup). This could have been completely avoided if the team would have thought over the repair process, accounting for the worst case scenario, and informed me accordingly, giving me also time to plan and schedule the pickup and drop conveniently.
Worst part was to put up with their drama of “helplessness” to arrange for a loaner vehicle.

5.) No proper method to check EV specific functionality -, to ensure if the problem is fixed.
The service team would not do a DC Fast Charge post the repair as they did not have a DC charger in their premises and it was beyond their scope of work, this inspite of my willingness to pay for the additional service of doing DC charging. They would rather prefer that the customer travels down 125kms and then take the car for a DC fast charging themselves, just to verify it. And if it fails, then accept the service center’s apology and catch a train back home
The only test being the doubtful “AC fast charging and operating the cabin AC in parallel”. test and take their word that the problem was fixed.

While this would be the brief summation of my experience with Hyundai EV Service, covering most of the applicable facts. I did try to refrain (or atleast tried to minimize) posting the behavioral or circumstantial aspects which had made the entire ordeal a miserable one.



The following portion is for all of the technically curious folks.
Scenario – Kona has a slightly unique AC chiller system in the way it splits the Battery cooling and the cabin AC as shown in this diagram.

Source:https://electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/...gement-design/

So there can be a scenario where the cabin AC works perfectly as it sees regular operation but the battery circuit can go defunct due to disuse. This scenario could basically be due to prolonged periods of non-operation in cool ambient conditions paired with either-
- moderate driving styles, so not much current draw
- customer rarely does DC Fast charging, so not much current input

The obstruction in the second circuit, which feeds the Battery chiller causes the compressor to fail. As per the service personnel, it usually occurs due to the battery chiller’s expansion valve getting blocked due to disuse.
While the first time mistake could be understood as it was a judgement solely based on their experience, the second time ideally they should have flushed the system and verified for any other blocks or atleast a DC charging to verify before handing the vehicle back. The compressor literally blew within 15 mins of starting the DC charging.

The worst part of it -this was the 2nd time. I was supposed to check myself and would have, if not for the circumstances. Everything that could go wrong went wrong. They alerted me quite late and I reached Kochi almost nearing closing time. Moreover, Kochi received one of the heaviest rains on 4th November, Saturday evening (officially recorded). I was soaked to the bones as I went to pick up the car.
Irked at their testing prowess, I decided to take it for testing myself at the nearest DCFC station with an intention of returning the car if it failed. The moment I entered the road I realized that the roads had turned to rivers and the traffic was crawling(15kms in 2+ hours). So the DCFC’s enroute were either impossible to access due to traffic, rain (no shelter at the charger) or outright flooding and dealership had already closed. Frustrated & exhausted (actually was already feverish), I just headed home to test it next day (Sunday-holiday). I guess the fever saved the service personnel as by Monday I was not even able to vent my anger.

[mally2]

I never knew running AC when DC FC was even a mandatory thing suggested by Hyundai SA ! makes no sense to me. shouldn't the battery cooling and cabin cooling be independent systems as in TATA EVs ?

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Unfortunately though, the service entailing the vehicle ended up burying the admiration i had for it.

I really empathize with your situation. Regarding service centre and its staff,
- The knowledge of all service centre staff irrespective of the manufacturer is lacking. Newer the vehicle, more the lack of knowledge, more the misinformation. In the case of EVs, it gets compounded with lack of knowledge on newer technology as well.
- The number of cars sold also has an impact on the on-job experience, more the cars sold, more the chances of experience. Example - A SA/mechanic handling a Creta will be much more confident than one handling Kona.
- Lack of skill or education related to the automobile industry, the SA might be or might not be from a Automobile Engineering background.

Coming to your problem, I think there is something wrong in your cooling circuit may be some debris from failed compressors otherwise why will the valve get clogged again and again. Have they drained the cooling circuit completely and refilled it?

Originally Posted by mally2

I never knew running AC when DC FC was even a mandatory thing suggested by Hyundai SA ! makes no sense to me. shouldn't the battery cooling and cabin cooling be independent systems as in TATA EVs ?

I was going to point this itself, this is very different from Tata's implementation of it. I don't know which one is better but Tata has two cooling circuits - one dedicated for AC and other dedicated for battery and motor. To the extent that it has two radiator fans as well which function independent of each other.

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by mally2

I never knew running AC when DC FC was even a mandatory thing suggested by Hyundai SA ! makes no sense to me. shouldn't the battery cooling and cabin cooling be independent systems as in TATA EVs ?

Tata uses LFP so the battery temperature is low, where as all the Hyundai's using NMC goes as high as 60 Celcius.
BYD Atto 3 doesn't go above 45 Celsius.

I know in PC CPU liquid cooler the temperature can be brought from 80 Celcius to 45 Celcius just by using a small radiator and a 120mm fan. So Tata may be able to just use liquid cooling without connecting it to the AC evaporator, since the charge rate is like 0.7C rate which is good enough for just air cooled, but Tata uses liquid cooling because some of the cells in transmission tunnel and under seat will not get airflow.

Where as Kona charges above 1.1C and is a NMC battery.

[sheelRP]

I own a Kona. I have not had issues so far, but am worried about your experience. I would suggest calling Hyundai India customer care and providing details of the issue. They seem to have prompt response system It may work in your case. All the best mate. As such, the Kona is still a very sorted EV.

[swarnava.ch]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

While I would greatly appreciate any pointers to escalate this matter. This post is more of a reality check
- For anyone looking at the Hyundai EV's, if there are no EV certified Hyundai Service Center in near vicinity. Lack of EV specific experience/expertise at the service center, can get severely aggravated by the long distance transit for service
- The Kona specific EV Gyan thrown around by service personnel, better to know the facts and not to believe them blindly.
- Stigma of EV adoption can be quite bothersome especially in face of apathetic service network. And if it is the only car of the household then you are in for hell of a ride.

Hello EV Fan, I was quite disappointed to read your experience on Kona. Frankly speaking I myself am in the lookout for a good EV option. While I love the Tata offerings - perhaps even waiting for Punch EV, I am very skeptical of of their Product Quality, Service experience specially EVs are more complex software puzzles compared to their regular mechanical cars. I have first hand experience of TASS.
I was hoping Kona could be the next best option - was hoping that the New MY24 Kona (Next Gen) with Global updates will be a more comprehensive product backed by Hyundai service experience however your own experience is quite the opposite. I am a bit worried what other options are left. May be Hyundai in Bangalore is a bit better placed than the options you had. Any thoughts from other Kona Owners - specially in Bangalore ?

[wocanak]

Hi EV Fan, sorry to hear the troubles you are facing. Hope Hyundai takes note of this and provides a proper resolution. Thank you for sharing the details, this should help people think about many aspects while deciding on a car.

We are still in early stages of EVs and not out of the leading/bleeding edge stage. EV buyers are pioneers who are helping to mature the technology and make it better for the main stream. Of course the very early buyers (Reva/E2O) were at a different level, but all deserve credit for their risk taking.

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

May be Hyundai in Bangalore is a bit better placed than the options you had. Any thoughts from other Kona Owners - specially in Bangalore ?

I have informally heard from industry folks that Bangalore is the EV sales leader, I have also observed more EVs in Bangalore than the other major cities.

You can expect the best EV service in Bangalore, but whether that is sufficient is a different matter. As mentioned above, EVs are still more risk than ICE, so jump in only if you can manage it. Otherwise better to wait for the ground up EV designs coming in the next few years, any maybe wait an year or so to see how they fare and decide.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by mally2

I never knew running AC when DC FC was even a mandatory thing suggested by Hyundai SA !

Apparently they do. But its technically a temperature thing, i have seen on a hot day, the cooling system kick in as soon as i plugged in the portable charger (2.6KW) after a long drive. Basically the system works based on ambient temperature, battery temperature and operation (power draw or charging).

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Have they drained the cooling circuit completely and refilled it?

Apparently, they had thoroughly executed this entire process twice and found no clogging or contaminants except the compressor debris.
The problem may have been diagnosed and testing it is on. I will be detailing it on the post, once i am convinced.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

I really empathize with your situation. Regarding service centre and its staff,

I fear in this case it was the operational mindset coupled with lack of testing which made it symptomatic fix and a repeat issue.
The mechanics are all experienced on ICE’s a technology which is so mature that they rarely encounter strange or unaccounted scenarios. With EV’s that is not the case, Diagnosis and testing is critical even if the mechanic assumes he has solved the issue based on his ICE experience.
Neither do they realize that the same solution may not apply for an EV nor do they do have sufficient time/incentive to do proper testing to verify the experimented repair.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

I don't know which one is better but Tata has two cooling circuits - one dedicated for AC and other dedicated for battery and motor.

Kona seems to have a unifed condenser circuit (so 1 fan) supporting seperate battery & cabin evaporator units. Both system has it's own pros & cons but with an active cooled battery, a robust system with redundancy or fail - safe measures are important. Kona does use passive cooling techniques and control limits but has this Achilles heel.

Originally Posted by DIY410

Where as Kona charges above 1.1C and is a NMC battery.

Higher even, Kona can be charged at upto 50KW(i have seen 48KW) and with "Regen +" pulled at high speeds the Kona motor consumption has seen “-70”KW's, that's a regen factor of almost 2. I remember reading a post on a regen higher than -100KW with the possibility of the entire 150KW capability of motor available for regen. Not tested it and not planning to either now, with such a poor Hyundai support.

Originally Posted by wocanak

Thank you for sharing the details, this should help people think about many aspects while deciding on a car.

I do remember our conversation, on this - My fear of Tata EV's service support over Hyundai & MG. I guess my fate was to face the issue be it the Nexon or the Kona, well atleast the Tata has far more EV supporting centers here in kerala unlike the Hyundai.
So while the lack of experience & apathy would have been the same but the "Distant Service Center Trips" would have been avoided with the Nexon. I could have atleast cycled to any of these Tata dealer's and stood on their head.

Originally Posted by wocanak

I have informally heard from industry folks that Bangalore is the EV sales leader, I have also observed more EVs in Bangalore than the other major cities.
You can expect the best EV service in Bangalore, but whether that is sufficient is a different matter.

I am already considering this now. I can happily drive the Kona even 1400kms if there is no fear of “Service Center” but the 125kms to this center at Kochi seems outright miserable, just thinking about it.

Originally Posted by swarnava.ch

Frankly speaking I myself am in the lookout for a good EV option.
May be Hyundai in Bangalore is a bit better placed than the options you had.

As wocanak also mentioned, atleast Hyundai response is somewhat better in Bangalore and i can also confirm the same.
But if this is going to your only car & if there is a possibility that you may find yourself occasionally in places with Non-EV specific Hyundai Service Centers then i would recommend weighing your options.
A non EV Certified Hyundai service center in Kerala refused to fix a puncture or even sell tire inspite of the vehicle being close to it. Their excuse - they can't open job cards for EV & if something goes wrong, they will be penalized.
Instead the fix was done by a local puncture shop further ahead who agreed to fix it after i put his fears of EV vehicles to rest.

Originally Posted by wocanak

As mentioned above, EVs are still more risk than ICE, so jump in only if you can manage it. Otherwise better to wait for the ground up EV designs coming in the next few years, any maybe wait an year or so to see how they fare and decide.

Have become the example of "how to not fail by dreaming to be a pioneer", in my family.
So. yes. my message for new buyers has changed from "Early adopters have to be extra careful" to "Current Market & Service Centers are not yet mature enough for Lemon’s or Technical Issues in EV's"

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

I do remember our conversation, on this - My fear of Tata EV's service support over Hyundai & MG. I guess my fate was to face the issue be it the Nexon or the Kona, well atleast the Tata has far more EV supporting centers here in kerala unlike the Hyundai.
So while the lack of experience & apathy would have been the same but the "Distant Service Center Trips" would have been avoided with the Nexon. I could have atleast cycled to any of these Tata dealer's and stood on their head.

Yes, at that time you were in Bangalore, so distance to EV service center was not an issue and it never came up as a factor. Hence your post is a good reminder that outside major cities, local availability and quality of service matters more than the pan India network.

This applies to any car, yesterday someone asked me about Hyundai vs Volkswagen service. I said may not find much difference in Bangalore, then remembered to add, if you plan to use in your native place, then please check the availability there.

[EV Fan]

Thanks to the Team BHP forum and the members, the vehicle finally escaped the dungeons of the Hyundai Service Center (though with quite a few scars).

I do not know if it was the Hyundai PR team which saw the post or we have Team BHP members in the upper echelons of the Hyundai (Thank You very much if it is). But it seems there was some pressure from top and they atleast quickened up the pace (Never happened when i tried following their escalation matrix).
The service team stated that they were already working on it but the timeline got pushed due to the technical difficulty of the issue and delays in getting parts from Chennai (CKD, floods and so on) – Believable but their lack of communication was not excusable.
Though I still don’t think that the vehicle would have been “Ready” if it was not for the post on the Team BHP.

So, basically after 4 months of repeat issue and a month of diagnosing, with the car at the service center - They may have finally managed to identify the root cause.
But rather than giving a loaner EV, till the issue is appropriately resolved, they salvaged parts from their Test Drive vehicle to get my vehicle in running condition. Appreciable? – Honestly I don’t know, but atleast some peace of mind as i have a vehicle again now.

While I have now been testing the vehicle myself , it looks like the issue is finally resolved, inspite of the botched up delivery.
Now I am looking at the "additional damages" due to their handling at the service center - the thought of a 4th service visit for this “New” repair work is a bit unnerving, especially after this delivery.

Overview of delivery
The day after getting the wonderful message of “Vehicle ready for pickup tomorrow”, I headed out to the center instead of fighting for a vehicle drop (taking a train/bus to Kochi is easier than getting the vehicle dropped and I also wanted to do my own testing/checks before i accepted the repaired vehicle - I am really glad i did that).

As, i finally get the updates & see the vehicle - my heart just sank:
- The repair was done with parts borrowed from Test Drive vehicle and cannot be invoiced. So the "new part" fix means the same delay of “parts sourcing” and the 4th round of service - the horror of facing the Hyundai Service looming in the future is already making me cringe.
- New damages. I was well prepared for scratches, smudges, grease/adhesives and everything minor, i mean it was almost the norm for repairs that require opening up the vehicle. But now it seems even scraping the car - full length scratches, misaligned/ jutting out panel, seems to be the “Norm” for a vehicle “ready for delivery”.
The left side had scratches running the full length across the panels and the side view mirror. They had definitely scraped the car but did not bother covering it up.
The bumper was jutting out on the top corners(near DRL’s), i don’t know if it’s due to multiple popping out for repairs or mishandling but it seemed the clips/clamps were bent or maybe broken.

And so began the sequence of fixes before handing over my “ready to pick up car”.
- The scratches were somewhat buffed but few gouges remained.
- The jutting out bumper on both sides were “stuck“ into place by sealants and looked like a Fevi Kwik jugaad done by the kids on their hot wheels car. The car’s front reminded me of the Joker from the Dark knight, the adhesive tapes almost looking like the stitches on the Joker's scar. I was instructed to not remove the tapes for next 4 hours as it needs to be held into place. (Picture the joker saying “Let’s put a smile on that face”)

Finally 3 hours later, headed out to do the DC FC test that would prove that the Battery cooling issue was finally resolved.
And to my utmost relief, the Battery cooling was happening and i saw the car charge back again at more than 30KW.
But surprise surprise, they managed to mess it up even here. They had “accidentally” left the charging port cover - stuck somewhere inside the vehicle’s engine bay, when doing the bumper fix.

So, headed back to the service center to take out the charging port cover at around 7:30PM - their closing time.
And now here was the dilemma - pulling out the “tapes” and bumper apart, which were to be left untouched for 4 hours. The look on the mechanic’s face as the manager said that, is nicely etched in my brain - out comes the bumper and thankfully the charging port cover. And then the wonderful assurance – that somehow the already dried out adhesive will hold (Bumper’s starting to already pop back out, at the time of writing this - so much for their assurances).

The only good thing, after almost 4 hours of misery, was getting the vehicle back. I almost enjoyed the drive back and was getting over my frustration, until i realized that they somehow managed to even damage the mobile holder on the dashboard (something inconsequential but the amazement of how something even unrelated to the repair could be screwed up by the service center.)

While i do appreciate the hard work and entire technical diagnosis they had to do for this issue recently. But the experience even post all the escalations, still seemed quite slack.

So, now i am struggling to decide on the next round of torture. I would like to hear from more experienced folks here - your suggestions & experiences for my saturated head, which is clouded with frustration and has been facing some difficulty in thinking straight -
1.) I am wary of any more of their bumper repair, other than replacement. It’s already seen 4-5 rounds of popping and their jugaad fix is already started to fail.
2.) I dread the consequences of another round of “car sitting at service center”- for the actual replacements to be made and the bumper fix
3.) Thanks to the unfortunate experience at this center, future services back in Bangalore with a 1400 km round trip seems plausible instead. I might have to try & plan it with any of the - one off trips to Bangalore.
4.) With Hyundai not providing pickup & drop facilities for long distances and late turn around service times for fixes, i am also contemplating selling the Kona in exchange for a Tata EV(all the 3 Tata dealers in proximity either have EV service or are providing pickup/drop support to their EV specific center).

Originally Posted by wocanak

Hence your post is a good reminder that outside major cities, local availability and quality of service matters more than the pan India network.

The Kona might be great, mostly when everything is good (and sun is shining) but in worse case scenarios of mishap or technical glitches when a person is already in trouble, this lack of support can really compound the situation to pure misery.
What i encountered, post this technical glitch -
1.) Distant EV Service centers
2.) No Pickup/drop or proper support(i felt it was almost apathetic)
3.) Part procurement delays of a CKD

While I am not saying Tata is better than Hyundai. For my current location atleast, the above 3 factors are a drawback of Hyundai.
"lack of EV experience" can happen at any service center - Hyundai or Tata. But for my location a Tata car would atleast not have these 3 added troubles.

I am usually very patient and quite level headed. But my "Hyundai" experience (not documented in entirety here), just pushed me to a point of frustration sometimes, where I just walked out from the discussion with their personnel.

[EV Fan]

Latest Update

Root Cause for the Failure of Battery Cooling – The Control Module, which basically manages the entire cooling operation was unable to operate the expansion valve.
Without the expansion valve opening, the compressor was getting damaged.
The service team was diagnosing it only as a clogged up expansion valve as they had experienced it before on another Kona but never knew it could happen due to a failed control module as well.

So while the required part – AC Control Module was awaited they had salvaged parts from their Test Drive vehicle to get my vehicle in running condition.
And after 3 DC charging sessions, I am convinced that they have finally rightfully diagnosed the issue.

Now for the 4th & final round of fix for a saga that’s dragged on to the 5th month. And they are also supposed to fix the damages that happened when the vehicle was “sitting” in their service center.


Critical Misstep – If they would have tested the vehicle with DC charging after the 1st round, then basically they could have saved me all the hassle and for themselves – 3 rounds of expansion valve + compressor replacements.
I also realized that Hyundai does not have any form of test/check for expansion valve or compressor, nor is it backed by some form of fail/safe or even a warning for compressor.
Ideally, the BMS should have some identifier & failsafe to identify and address it before the compressor fails, after all it controls the cooling for the battery and that too NMC chemistry.

Apparently no form of fix happened in the subsequent BMS updates, for a 5 year old/mature product and a known issue.

No cut offs, No MID alerts, basically the only 2 identifiers are –
1.) Any form of DC Fast Charge throttling at charge levels below 80%. A 20/30 KW charging at a 50KW charger is a red flag. Gives you 10 minutes before the compressor blows and a loud grinding sound scares the hell out of anyone within the vicinity.
2.) Open the bonnet and checking the expansion valve (supplying the battery cooling circuit) to see if it is cool. I don't think i can do this check when the DC charging is happening but rather after. But by then we will get to know anyways, as the compressor would have already started howling).


Guess Hyundai is just taking the experience of us Beta testers for improving the future products - no BMS updates for the existing ones.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Latest Update

Root Cause for the Failure of Battery Cooling – The Control Module, which basically manages the entire cooling operation was unable to operate the expansion valve.

Final Update after adequate self testing & a scheduled service – Fully operational vehicle, especially Thanks to the outreach that Team BHP as a forum gave me.
And certainly the folks at Popular Hyundai dealership at Kochi and their Hyundai counterparts, who actually fixed it albeit with a bit of nudge.

They have finally fixed the root cause which was causing the compressor to fail repeatedly - The AC Control Module, which basically manages the entire cooling operation, was unable to operate the expansion valve(EXV). Without the expansion valve opening, the compressor was getting damaged every time.

The service team at Popular Hyundai dealership, ended up misdiagnosing it, as their fault identification stopped at the expansion valve, based on their prior experience with a few Kona’s.

But this time alongwith the Hyundai tech support they compared diagnostic dataset during charging, from my vehicle and compared with a perfectly working vehicle. This helped them to identify that the AC control module was unable to provide the input signal, to open the Expansion Valve.


While this helped them identify and fix the issue – it did highlight to me the critical flaw in the Kona’s cooling circuit (and not something new either, quite a few Kona owners in India have already faced it).

Unlike in other EV’s which use a single AC circuit for both cabin AC & battery cooling, Hyundai had tried giving separate cooling circuit for cabin and battery cooling in the Kona.
The flaw in this design is that the customer will not be aware when this fault occurs, as the cabin AC works perfectly, till the time we do the DC Fast charging (DCFC-50KW or higher) without cabin AC. During the DCFC, if the Expansion valve (Battery Cooling) does not open, the pressure builds up in the compressor. Result - compressor fails as the alternate path for the cabin AC is also closed.

Now this usually used to happen in Kona’s when no DC FC was done in a long time and the lack of operation of battery cooling circuit, used to jam up the expansion valve. The EXV replacement used to fix this but not so in this case, so as per the service personnel this is the first time they faced another iteration of this flaw. They never knew it could even happen due to a failed AC control module.

So unless Hyundai figures out, how to identify if expansion valve is operational or prevent pressure build up at compressor, the dealerships can only do post failure – repair, for the compressor and the expansion valve.
Even a Self-Test, whereby the Battery cooling circuit is operated/tested during charging or on periodic intervals, would be a solution better than nothing. Something similar in lines to what they had already provided for 12V battery discharge issue.

Anyways, with the fault isolated, they tested my vehicle with a replacement AC control module from their Test Drive (TD) vehicle.
And more importantly, they ensured to do proper testing with DCFC before confirming the resolution to me.


Thankfully instead of waiting for the replacement part to arrive they gave back the vehicle with the borrowed part from their TD vehicle. While it might be a small gesture for them, for me it was a major relief as i finally had a proper operational vehicle after a “few months”. I hope that dealerships could understand how these gestures can go a long way to ease the misery in such a scenario.

Finally to make amends, they also gave my vehicle a “top to bottom” shine.

And the cherry on the cake, the entire round trip had the best efficiency figure the Kona has given up to date. 13.38 KM/KWh or 74.75Wh/km over 215 kms (heavy traffic city+highway drive). I guess the new compressor and the service did work its way to the numbers.


The 80 to 75% difference was when the service guys were working on it(I am not posting the blasphemous value).

So, did the shine and the brilliant efficiency make me forget about all the hassles. Almost a yes, until they somehow managed a minor goof up in the end even this time. Yes, they have a packed up schedule and tight working space, but i don’t think it is still wrong to expect a niggle free experience.
But honestly i am thankful to the folks at Popular Kochi, especially Vikas & Hari, who stepped up the effort towards a more customer-centric experience.
Their efforts and the Kona’s efficiency, just made me consider holding on to it rather than jumping the bandwagon to the competitor for now.

The strict convention of regular DC charges of 50KW or above, atleast once in a month or higher, still holds.(Even though i would mostly not need it thanks to the range it gives)

[sidrn]

Hi

I am facing some issue with the compressor on my Hyundai Kona EV. Read about the issue that evfan faced with his compressor and thought I will post here.
I have driven down to Hyderabad from Bangalore, halfway through the journey after DC fast charging at Kurnool, I noticed that the AC was not working very well and there was some sound coming from the engine bay. I switched off the AC and the sound stopped. As long as I kept driving with AC off the sound was not there, but if the car is on and I am not moving or if it's DC fast charging the sound again comes up. I somehow reached Hyderabad and got it checked at Kun Hyundai Uppal. They said that the compressor is spoilt and needs to be replaced, they don't have the part so it will take a week. I need to drive back to Bangalore tomorrow, the showroom guys said that you can drive back without the ac. I just wanted to confirm if it would be OK to drive back with the faulty compressor, as the ac is part of the battery cooling system.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by sidrn

I have driven down to Hyderabad from Bangalore, halfway through the journey after DC fast charging at Kurnool, I noticed that the AC was not working very well and there was some sound coming from the engine bay.

Are you doing the DC Fast charging after a very long time? If yes, then this could very well be similar to mine.

Originally Posted by sidrn

As long as I kept driving with AC off the sound was not there, but if the car is on and I am not moving or if it's DC fast charging the sound again comes up.

They said that the compressor is spoilt and needs to be replaced, they don't have the part so it will take a week.

Please ensure they check compressor, expansion valve and the AC control module.
Critical - You need to check both Cooling circuits are working once repair is completed. Verify the cabin AC and then do a 50 KW or higher DC fast charging test to test battery cooling circuit as well. Ensure both are done before you pick up the vehicle.

Originally Posted by sidrn

I need to drive back to Bangalore tomorrow, the showroom guys said that you can drive back without the ac. I just wanted to confirm if it would be OK to drive back with the faulty compressor, as the ac is part of the battery cooling system.

You can drive back, as Kona has sufficient checks - that ensures the battery is managed well without even without the chiller circuit.
If possible avoid DC charging as it will trigger the cooling circuit/compressor. If it is very much needed, then switch On the cabin AC also while doing the DC Fast charging.
Basically as explained above, the cabin AC cooling circuit will relieve the pressure on the compressor.

[sidrn]

[quote=EV Fan;5738050]Are you doing the DC Fast charging after a very long time? If yes, then this could very well be similar to mine. [/QUOTE

Yeah, maybe a month.

Originally Posted by EV Fan

You can drive back, as Kona has sufficient checks - that ensures the battery is managed well without even without the chiller circuit.
If possible avoid DC charging as it will trigger the cooling circuit/compressor. If it is very much needed, then switch On the cabin AC also while doing the DC Fast charging.
Basically as explained above, the cabin AC cooling circuit will relieve the pressure on the compressor.

Can't avoid dc fast charging as I am driving back to bangalore. The only difference I see in our problems is that I hear the sound even when the ac is running without dc fast charging. I guess you were not getting the sound when only operating the ac.