[fiat_tarun]

The way I see it, the biggest entry barrier for EV's right now is price and this was projected to significantly reduce over time with dropping battery costs which has not happenned.

High interest rates and some subsidy reductions are not helping affordability for these expensive EV's in anyway and hence the situation playing out currently. The other aspects of range, battery replacement eventually all comes back to price - use case only as a second car, etc.

All the trends and outlooks I have seen don't show this situation with high battery prices dropping to the levels predicted earlier, so good (can be the primary car) EV's are going to remain expensive and hence I understand where these views are coming from.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

Can't compare phone batteries with EV batteries. Better tech in the EV batteries. Temp regulation in EV batteries and also finally, the number of charge cycles. Your phone will go through at least one charge cycle a day. minimum. Most EVs will do that once a week. So, if you have 85 percent health after about 730 charge cycles, the ev battery would be 14 years old, and would still retain better health because of the temp regulation etc.

Agree, as technology gets mature the mindset might change.

My next car for office commute is definitely going to be an EV, I am even planning to setup roof top solar panels to ensure my car runs clean as well. However I am skeptical about an EV being my highway tourer as it requires far more discipline and planning. Also my urban commute is only going to be around 800-1000 kms per year and maintaining my existing ICE car for few more years is far more economical and environment friendly.

[sridhga]

There is a book written by Harvard professors and the book is titled. "The Innovators' Dilemma". This book clearly explains the reasons why an established business fails when a new innovation is on its way to kill its existing business. The automobile business is exactly behaving as predicted. For the established players, the new segment is small. It does not attract the best managers from within the company. Also financial resources are not properly allocated to the new business line since it is too small in its current game. But this is the beginning of downfall of that company. New small players emerge in this innovation and they try to beat the existing large players in the narrow emerging segment. This hyper-competition makes it even more unattractive for the existing large players to allocate best management talent and resources to this new business line. Some established companies take the extra pain of giving importance to the new business line despite the challenges. This is clearly playing out. We now know which of the categories all these companies belong to. I am a stock market investor and I already can see the future of Tesla, Tata, Toyota etc. (I named the three T's to give the perspective.)

[volkman10]

Brazil:

Government will resume taxes on electric cars in 2024.

Return of taxes will be gradual and will start in January with a rate of 10% for electric and 12% for hybrids.

The rate will return to 35% from 2026; Until then, the rate rises gradually year by year.

the resumption of the import tax will be gradual until 2026. Until then, the tax rates will rise by four levels.

Link

[volkman10]

"Where have all the EV buyers gone?" asks Volvo's Polestar, as profit is down by 63%

-Apart from Tesla, it seems almost impossible for anyone to make money as a pure-play EV manufacturer.

-BYD still relies on PHEVs, which have combustion engines, to contribute nearly half of its sales

-Volvo’s EV-only Polestar brand is the latest casualty in the brutal EV space, as gross profit for January to September 2023 is down 63 percent.

-Polestar says the poorer performance is due to higher contract manufacturing, warranty, and freight costs, irregular supplier charges related to batteries and semiconductors, and increased inventory impairment.

-The Geely- and Volvo-funded pureplay EV manufacturer has revised its sales forecast for the year downwards to 60,000 units, or 20,000 units less than its May forecast of 80,000 units

-Also trimmed downwards is its gross margin, down by half, to just 2 percent. For reference, Tesla’s profit margin as of September 2023, is slightly under 8 percent, following the brutal price war in the EV space.

-Toyota – which has been contend to watch EV development from the fringes rather than jumping in with both feet – has grown its margins to nearly 12 percent, buoyed by what the company describes as ‘strong earning power’ of its hybrid models.

-Polestar’ targets to break even by 2025 by taking necessary steps to re-work the business plan, and reducing costs and improving efficiencies to create a more resilient and profitable Polestar

Link

[SKC-auto]

US sales data shows, the news about "EV sales stalls" is fake, such news are created to create doubts on EV future.

2023 sales is only upto Nov.

[Tech]

As per today's article, in US, people don't want to switch to EV due to range anxiety, huge heavy battery, no proper charging network, no real world contribution to cleaner environment etc reasons, poor mileage compared to claimed figures due to natural conditions, wind pressure, heating or using AC, driving in rain or at higher speed or in start stop traffic.

Situation in India is much worse than in US.

In another news, it was mentioned that less than 10% would think about owning a Tesla Cybertruck apart from the fact that it was 50% more costlier than expected. The boundation to not sell the Cybertruck else a fine of $50,000 was also never heard of before.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...-evs-all-wrong

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ns-2023-11-30/

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Tech

As per today's article, in US, people don't want to switch to EV due to range anxiety, huge heavy battery, no proper charging network, no real world contribution to cleaner environment etc reasons, poor mileage compared to claimed figures due to natural conditions, wind pressure, heating or using AC, driving in rain or at higher speed or in start stop traffic.

Situation in India is much worse than in US.

In another news, it was mentioned that less than 10% would think about owning a Tesla Cybertruck apart from the fact that it was 50% more costlier than expected. The boundation to not sell the Cybertruck else a fine of $50,000 was also never heard of before.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...-evs-all-wrong

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ns-2023-11-30/

At least in the USA, there is a scope for a pragmatic view, instead of a my-way-or- the highway approach. There has to be much deeper thought about feasibility of the electric vehicles.

[volkman10]

Ford cuts the production of the F-150 lightning in half.

Ford is cutting the production of the F-150 Lightning by half in 2024. The move comes following an ever-decreasing demand for EVs.

The move, which is a major reversal, comes after Ford boosted production capacity to 150,000 units per year starting in 2023 at the company's Rouge Electric Vehicle Center in Dearborn, Michigan. That is three times the original planned production capacity.

Ford is currently rolling out around 3,200 units per week at the Dearborn assembly plant. The numbers will be reduced in half, as the company is planning to cut 1,600 units of those produced, in 2024, according to a memo from Ford to suppliers.

The company is canceling or postponing the $12 billion investment in the development and production of EVs.

Automotive giants such as Ford, General Motors, and Volkswagen announced a slowdown on their electrification plans, in terms of financial investments.


Link

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Automotive giants such as Ford, General Motors, and Volkswagen announced a slowdown on their electrification plans, in terms of financial investments.

To me it looks like the same Nokia, Kodak story unraveling before our eyes. The US EV sales increase is 50% in 2023, these companies are no more competitive.

[PreludeSH]

Just 2 days ago I heard the international energy agency chief saying the sales of EVs is 1 in 5 which was 1 in 20 just 3 years ago. This was during discussion on the COP28.
Also, the usual car makers are making EVs mostly in the very premium segment. We need more compact and midsize cars in EVs

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Ford cuts the production of the F-150 lightning in half.

The issue is plonking an electric motor and battery in an extremely successful ICE truck doesn't guarantee you success in EV space. When your competitors are providing a proven ground up EV product with a optional FSD capability

Tesla had a 5 years journey from 2010-2015 when they sold on Model S and Model X - Premium offerings. Then they came with a mass market product - Model 3 in 2016 which became a super hit and then came Model Y in 2019. Combined sales of Model 3 and Model Y hit it out of the park. In 2023 end, they launched the niche product - Cybertruck.

It is simple, the incumbents entering late into the EV game and entering with premium products or niche products or ICE chassis based EV products are going to face challenges. The US market has matured and is looking for a mature proven mass market product.

Adding further - Just read that F150 Hybrid scores 3rd worst on reliability says a lot about the state of the manufacturer - teambhp news (Consumer Report Study: Chrysler Pacifica rated as the least reliable car, along with Volvo & Rivian)

[volkman10]

Hyundai Q4 operating profit weighed down by slow EV growth.

The EV portion of total sales dropped to 5.3% in the October-December period from 5.7% the year before.

Hyundai executive:

EV sales growth is slowing down, but we are coping with the change in the market flexibly

Link:

[volkman10]

The stock market has fallen out of love with electric cars.

Renault's decision to cancel Ampere division's IPO is the latest in a long line of recent investor snubs.

Renault’s decision to cancel the stock market listing of its Ampere division is the latest in a series of postponements, cancellations or – for those that did float – mistimed listings for EV-angled businesses.

- Lotus missed its deadline last year to list its electric arm in the US via the SPAC method and now says it will try for the first quarter of this year

- The planned US listing of fellow Geely brand Zeekr has been similarly postponed amid disagreements about its valuation and the turmoil in global financial markets.

- In Germany, the Volkswagen Group has gone cool on plans to list its PowerCo battery business.


Link:

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by volkman10

The stock market has fallen out of love with electric cars.

Renault's
- Lotus
- Volkswagen Group

Any info on true electric vehicle manufacturers like BYD, Tesla. Have their sales gone down?

In India, Tata has increased so has MG, other than Citroen no one has achieved down wards trend in EV