[sarathlal]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

This should be a hit for Volvo India going by the fact that the XC40 recharge with its limited range is already 25% of their sales in India.

The new car comes with a roughly 24% increase in range (ARAI). That alone should justify the 5L increase in price.

We may see Volvo India becoming the first auto OEM in India to sell more majority EVs by the same time next year.

I hope they build out 150 KW chargers and push the market forward.

Somehow feel that it could be the other way round. Saw it's interior and it's mighty cramped compared to even the XC40. It's a lovely design for sure, but will be very difficult to justify at this price point.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by Aditya

Real world range should be ~400 km, which is enough for most users

Volvo claims a range of 683 km (ICAT) / 530 km (WLTP), which is significantly more than the XC40’s 418 km (WLTP).

Originally Posted by adasisthefuture

You have stated in the review that C40 comes with ADAS LEVEL 3. As per my knowledge, Volvo does not indicate the Level of ADAS it is offering.

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

The new car comes with a roughly 24% increase in range (ARAI). That alone should justify the 5L increase in price.

Excellent review Aditya, 5-stars for the review! Your pros and cons are bang on and sums it up very well.

Would like to point out some misunderstanding, perhaps, in these claims and numbers by Volvo.

1. First of all this ICAT (or ARAI) range is ridiculous! 683 kms!! They should have tested this on a perpetual downhill slope or something to get that kind of a range for a car which is considered very inefficient compared to Tesla or Hyundai/Kia, for a similar capacity battery.
   

   • Generally speaking, I trust the EPA range much more than WLTP and the EPA range for this C40 recharge AWD is only 254 miles, i.e. 406 kms. And remember this is claimed, which many publications have found to be over estimated.
     
   • Car and Driver got around 200 mi i.e. 320 km on their highway test and other have received around 350-374 kms. So there you go.

2. Second, there is only a 1-2% difference between the claimed range of XC40 recharge vs. C40 recharge, based on their US, UK, Swedish, Chinese etc. websites. I am not sure where the 25% extra figure comes from. It's the same motor, same battery, basically the same car bar the styling.
   
   
3. Third, this car is not advertised as level 3 ADAS in any of the afore mentioned countries, not as far as I can figure out. There are two possibilities.
   

   • This car comes with Level 3 charging (or DC fast charging). Perhaps that was what they were quoting and somehow got into the slide title incorrectly?
     
   • Or they are mentioning "Pilot Assist 3" and mistakenly quoted as Level 3 ADAS. Either way this should be clarified.

   

4. Fourth and final, C40 recharge is usually 1-2 lakhs more than it's boxy counterpart, the XC40 recharge, in most markets. Not 5 lakhs.

In my short use, I was not a fan of the new native Android infotainment system and it leaves a lot to be desired.

The pros will be coupe styling, build quality, excellent fit and finish, ridiculously fast motor with AWD setup etc. as you have pointed out. However, if you want a fast Volvo electric compact, save your 5 lakhs and buy the XC40 recharge, unless you want the coupe style and inferior headroom with less visibility in the rear.

On another note, or maybe for another thread and discussion, the ICAT/ARAI figures are as useless as they come. On average, take the claimed range numbers and deduct 40% of it.

[curiosity]

Originally Posted by inwester

It's the same motor, same battery, basically the same car bar the styling.

Now I may be totally wrong here but from what I have been told or lied the battery manufacturer is different and hence the bump up in the range. I have no ways to verify this. That said if it actually the case where it is the same as the XC40 then why would they market it with a higher range?

[adasisthefuture]

Originally Posted by inwester

Third, this car is not advertised as level 3 ADAS in any of the afore mentioned countries, not as far as I can figure out. There are two possibilities.

1. • This car comes with Level 3 charging (or DC fast charging). Perhaps that was what they were quoting and somehow got into the slide title incorrectly?
   • Or they are mentioning "Pilot Assist 3" and mistakenly quoted as Level 3 ADAS. Either way this should be clarified.

I completely agree with you. I do not think ADAS in the C40 is an upgrade over the existing range of Volvos available in India. However, the reviewer cited a presentation he got from Volvo which mentioned Level 3. I have heard many Volvo Dealers mentioning the ADAS in XC90, S90 and XC60 as Level 3 in the past one year after Volvo upgraded to the Google Based system so it could be the case that Volvo considers its ADAS as Level 3 across the board but I do not think that other cars are having ADAS Level 2 while C40 is having Level 3.

[shyampsunder]

Originally Posted by inwester

[list=1][*]First of all this ICAT (or ARAI) range is ridiculous! 683 kms!! They should have tested this on a perpetual downhill slope or something to get that kind of a range for a car which is considered very inefficient compared to Tesla or Hyundai/Kia, for a similar capacity battery.

• Generally speaking, I trust the EPA range much more than WLTP and the EPA range for this C40 recharge AWD is only 254 miles, i.e. 406 kms. And remember this is claimed, which many publications have found to be over estimated.
  
• Car and Driver got around 200 mi i.e. 320 km on their highway test and other have received around 350-374 kms. So there you go.

[*]Second, there is only a 1-2% difference between the claimed range of XC40 recharge vs. C40 recharge, based on their US, UK, Swedish, Chinese etc. websites. I am not sure where the 25% extra figure comes from. It's the same motor, same battery, basically the same car bar the styling.

[*]Fourth and final, C40 recharge is usually 1-2 lakhs more than it's boxy counterpart, the XC40 recharge, in most markets. Not 5 lakhs.

The pros will be coupe styling, build quality, excellent fit and finish, ridiculously fast motor with AWD setup etc. as you have pointed out. However, if you want a fast Volvo electric compact, save your 5 lakhs and buy the XC40 recharge, unless you want the coupe style and inferior headroom with less visibility in the rear.

On another note, or maybe for another thread and discussion, the ICAT/ARAI figures are as useless as they come. On average, take the claimed range numbers and deduct 40% of it.

There are a lot of inaccuracies in what you have written, so let me share my thoughts on them. Will be helpful for people deciding between the XC40 and C40 Recharge.

1. The XC40 that is sold in India is the 2022 model whereas the C40 is the 2023 model. Volvo has made massive changes to the drive train between these two models. So your statement that the motors are the same is not correct. "As for the AWD models, Volvo replaced the two 150kW electric motors on both axles with an in-house 183kW e-motor on the rear axle and a new 117 kW e-motor on the front axle." - source

2. Now since the XC40 and C40 are from different model years, we obviously cannot compare their prices in India. Do note in your price comparisons to other markets, both the XC40 and the C40 are the 2023 models.

3. Now coming to ARAI vs WLTP vs EPA. Is the ARAI too optimistic with its range figures? Yes, it is. Are the range figures impossible to attain? No. In the ZS EV community, we have folks regularly hitting the claimed range of 450 KMs with the usage of AC. Now obviously they are sedate drivers and maybe the top 5 percentile of users but it is not unattainable.

While for new users of EVs, the ARAI range may be misleading, it does outperform the EPA rating in one dimension: Comparability. While ICAT does testing of cars to certify the range, the EPA gives multiple options to OEMs on what set of tests to be done and then certifies using the data given by OEMs. You can read more about how the EPA range widely varies because of this over here

The pattern of highway driving greatly varies between US and India. The EPA numbers don't represent this well. I easily get 300 KMs of range on Indian highways but if you look at highway range tests abroad, they are usually between 230 - 250 KMs.

The WLTP cycle is a far more representative standard for our driving conditions and can also be used to compare cars.

4. Why should I pay the extra 5 lakhs? Efficiency. While both the XC40 and C40 use a 78 kWh battery, we can use the 40% reduction of ARAI range to compute a real-world range of 330 KMs and 408 KMs respectively translating to efficiency figures of 4.2 KM/kWh and 5.2 KM/kWH. Generally, the max people travel per day is 500 - 600 KMs per day. Now both cars cannot do this without a charging stop. The efficiency advantage plays out in the amount of time you have to spend in charging your car.

On a 50 KW charger, the XC40 will need to stop for roughly 60 minutes to add 52 kWh of power to cover the additional 220 KMs needed to reach a destination 550 KMs away. For the C40 recharge, it will be roughly 35 mins.

So just a 23% improvement in efficiency can mean you cutting down your charging stop duration by half. It is not intuitive but plays out in the real world. Today, the most prevalent chargers are 24 or 30 KW on our highways which further excaberate the delta between the two cars.

So if you plan to drive your EVs on the highway, I would highly recommend the C40 over the XC40. If you are keen on the XC40, I would recommend waiting for the 2023 model refresh to happen which will address the efficiency problem.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

1. The XC40 that is sold in India is the 2022 model whereas the C40 is the 2023 model.

I would recommend waiting for the 2023 model refresh to happen which will address the efficiency problem.

Thanks for catching that .

I just assumed that since its already the tail end of the year 2023 both the models would have been refreshed and latest made available for India.

Actually just confirmed with Volvo India that the C40 Recharge indeed is the new one (2023 model with 40/60 FWD/RWD dual motor set up) and the XC40 is the old one (2022 model with 50/50 dual motor set up). They don't have a date when they will refresh that yet.

Attached are the official India brochures for both the cars, but it still doesn't exactly mention the motor specifications.

BTW, as a Tesla owner since 2020 I had read about the various EPA methodologies (2 cycle vs. 5 cycle). I still think EPA estimates are way more accurate and apart from Tesla who makes use of the "additional" factors, most other manufacturers uses the standard EPA formula and are quite close to their real world figures.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-world-tested/

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...range-numbers/

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

There are a lot of inaccuracies in what you have written, so let me share my thoughts on them. Will be helpful for people deciding between the XC40 and C40 Recharge.

In addition the C40 is built on a new ev platform.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

In addition the C40 is built on a new ev platform.

I don't think it is, but happy to be corrected, again.

From what I know they both are on the CMA platform (Compact Modular Architecture platform). The only change they made starting this year is what shyampsunder mentioned. For the AWD twin motor models, they changed the drive train motors from 50/50 to 40/60 for a more rear biased and efficient set up (it still totals to 300 kW, but its 117/183, instead of 150 each). Otherwise in the new model year (whatever it is, 2023 for some countries, 2024 for others) they are both same cars, in all aspects, apart from the coupe body shape.

https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...-recharge/2023

https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...-recharge/2023

[tharian]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

1. The XC40 that is sold in India is the 2022 model whereas the C40 is the 2023 model. Volvo has made massive changes to the drive train between these two models. So your statement that the motors are the same is not correct. "As for the AWD models, Volvo replaced the two 150kW electric motors on both axles with an in-house 183kW e-motor on the rear axle and a new 117 kW e-motor on the front axle." - source

So if you plan to drive your EVs on the highway, I would highly recommend the C40 over the XC40. If you are keen on the XC40, I would recommend waiting for the 2023 model refresh to happen which will address the efficiency problem.

My neighbor picked up a XC40 Recharge last week. I asked him why not the C40, he said the rear headroom was an issue. Then I asked him if the XC40 he got was the new updated one and he said yes. I had a feeling it isn't since I had read some posts on the XC40 thread that the new one is still not available in India. I didn't want to counter him on saying that what he got was the older one as that will dampen his excitement after paying big bucks. I guess the only way to confirm is with the VIN?

[shyampsunder]

Originally Posted by tharian

My neighbor picked up a XC40 Recharge last week. I asked him why not the C40, he said the rear headroom was an issue. Then I asked him if the XC40 he got was the new updated one and he said yes. I had a feeling it isn't since I had read some posts on the XC40 thread that the new one is still not available in India. I didn't want to counter him on saying that what he got was the older one as that will dampen his excitement after paying big bucks. I guess the only way to confirm is with the VIN?

Not sure if VIN can confirm it because it's assembled in India. Manufacturer year will be 2023 even for the 2022 model.

Range is the right way to compare.

[sachind]

A slight clarification on volvo Model Years which i did a deep dive into as we recently bought one, the XC40 Recharge currently sold in India is the MY 2023 model, there are minor changes between the MY 2022 and 2023 cars namely the contour based mood lighting, grey lining for the interiors and a modified front bumper. The MY 2024 cars with with different front and rear motors split as mentioned are in the MY 2024 version which is available in select markets and no visibility when it will be available in India.

[evolvo]

Originally Posted by tharian

My neighbor picked up a XC40 Recharge last week. I asked him why not the C40, he said the rear headroom was an issue. Then I asked him if the XC40 he got was the new updated one and he said yes. I had a feeling it isn't since I had read some posts on the XC40 thread that the new one is still not available in India. I didn't want to counter him on saying that what he got was the older one as that will dampen his excitement after paying big bucks. I guess the only way to confirm is with the VIN?

The “new updated one” is relative.

In May22, Volvo offered test drives of the pre-facelifted model. Eventually towards end of 2022, it launched the facelifted Recharge. This is what your Neighbor got, and hence he is right that he got the ‘new updated one’.

However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, in Jan’23, Volvo updated this facelifted model with newer motors and better range (drastically improved by 15% or about 50-60km). However, this was never launched in India…so your neighbor did not get ‘this latest updated model’.

When launching C40 in India, Volvo chose to launch with this new config.

So in effect, we in India currently have two sub-par options from Volvo:

1. Volvo XC40 Recharge
Pros: insane acceleration, good price 56 lacs, SUV looks
Cons: sub-par 360km real range, upright rear bench

2. Volvo C40 Recharge
Pros: insane acceleration, better real range at 400-420, stylish coupe design
Cons: pricier by 5 lacs, upright rear bench, reduced headroom, poor rear visibility.

Moreover, any electric car costing 50+ lacs should have ventilated seats (especially in India), 450km+ real range, skateboard platform and good rear seat comfort. Both Volvos lack in all aspects. Sigh!

On the brighter side:
The EX30 looks very promising, with more insane acceleration (3.8secs to 100!!) and a very attractive price point. The new set of Volvos are gonna be killer, but it could take atleast 2-3 years for EX30 and the rest of the lineup (EX40, EX60, EX90 and the station concept) to be updated and launched in India.

Btw, a special to @shyampsunder for the precise data points, as always.

[lina]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

4. Why should I pay the extra 5 lakhs? Efficiency. While both the XC40 and C40 use a 78 kWh battery, we can use the 40% reduction of ARAI range to compute a real-world range of 330 KMs and 408 KMs respectively translating to efficiency figures of 4.2 KM/kWh and 5.2 KM/kWH. Generally, the max people travel per day is 500 - 600 KMs per day. Now both cars cannot do this without a charging stop. The efficiency advantage plays out in the amount of time you have to spend in charging your car.

This is a very crucial point that few people talk about. The most important metric to look for an EV especially in a country like India is how many km (car driven at highway speeds) can I add with about 45 min of charging. Remember that our public EV infra has at best 50 or 60kW chargers. Efficiency matters a lot. Figures like 0-80% in 50 min is a useless statistic as there are many variables like total battery capacity, efficiency, charger speed etc.

[rav1up]

Anyone looking to switch from XC40 Recharge to C40 Recharge? These are excellent VFM cars given the range, power train, drivkng characteristics and quality.

[curiosity]

Thanks to all the inputs from this thread and the XC40 Recharge thread. Went ahead and took delivery of the Fjord Blue C40 Recharge today.

I was in a conundrum between the XC40 Recharge and the C40 Recharge, because the heart said XC40 Recharge and the mind said C40 Recharge. Let me clarify why:

The XC40 Recharge is definitely more practical and the design was more appealing to me personally but the mind kept insisting that getting the XC40 Recharge would mean getting a product that is already 1.5-2 years old (i.e. with lesser range and older tech as explained by shyampsunder ) My problem with the C40 Recharge was the rear visibility but I can confirm that thankfully the rear view camera can be left on at all time through the 360° camera view, although it is not practical. Maybe in the future there can be a worthy upgrade by having the Digital rear view mirror.

Open to any questions that fellow bhpians may have that I can answer and also learn something in the process.

Meanwhile, Can someone with experience of using either of these cars explain how they stop the car and just move out i.e. by putting it in neutral or wait for a few seconds when the Parking break is engaged, if the latter is the case then what is the point of not having the start stop button if a button (i.e. Parking break) has to be pressed?