[dust-n-bones]

Originally Posted by chennai-indian

All you have to do is to look at South Korean and Japanese markets - Do let me know how many "foreign" car makers succeeded there. We are doing to China what they did to our companies when they tried to set up shop there.

I do hope you would agree that every one of those countries gave the best platforms to their companies to create globally competitive products. How will a Mahindra launch a globally competitive EV if the associated ecosystem is absent in the country? Is playing a childish tit-for-tat game the answer?

Look at it another way. Chinese EV industry is the largest in the world (260 billion), compared to India, some 1.5 billion. Our 'fitting response' doesn't quite register.

Now look at the irony. Mahindra is bolting on an imported BYD battery (whose prices will keep rising in step with the Chinese monopoly on the market), no national security risk is apparent, but the heavens will fall if the same product from the same company is made in India - with all the scrutiny that local manufacturing will allow.

Is it also not wrong that our youth are reduced to fighting each other in the streets of Haryana and Manipur, when they should be learning in the factories of the future instead?
How will this short-sighted chest thumping deliver anything useful to our country?

[chennai-indian]

Originally Posted by dust-n-bones

I do hope you would agree that every one of those countries gave the best platforms to their companies to create globally competitive products. How will a Mahindra launch a globally competitive EV if the associated ecosystem is absent in the country? Is playing a childish tit-for-tat game the answer?

Look at it another way. Chinese EV industry is the largest in the world (260 billion), compared to India, some 1.5 billion. Our 'fitting response' doesn't quite register.

Now look at the irony. Mahindra is bolting on an imported BYD battery (whose prices will keep rising in step with the Chinese monopoly on the market), no national security risk is apparent, but the heavens will fall if the same product from the same company is made in India - with all the scrutiny that local manufacturing will allow.

Is it also not wrong that our youth are reduced to fighting each other in the streets of Haryana and Manipur, when they should be learning in the factories of the future instead?
How will this short-sighted chest thumping deliver anything useful to our country?

To build the ecosystem, you need to give local companies space. That is what the Govt did. India is not saying no to investment from everyone. Just from the Chinese. That is not just business. It has geo-strategic implications too. Request you to read the other thread where this has been discussed in detail

[SmartCat]

None of the car manufacturers (Chinese/Japanese/European/Indians) will build an EV ecosystem in India - unless their hand is forced. If given an option, all of them will merrily import everything from China or wherever there is established EV component manufacturing in place. They will do this even if Govt gives incentives, because importing is risk free. Setting up a greenfield factory needs a large investment (which is risky).

If you ask for a wishlist from car manufacturer who already has a large assembly unit here, low import duty on components would top their list. At the same time, they would want 100% duty on imports of fully build cars.

Conversely, if you ask a car manufacturer who does NOT have an assembly unit here about what they want, they would like zero import duty on fully build cars (Eg: Tesla). They don't care about component import duty. But if you force their hand and they end up setting up a factory here, now the same OEM would want high import duty on fully built cars and low duties on components.

At the end of the day, all car companies regardless of origin (Indian/Chinese/Japanese/ European) look at their own interests. They don't care about a country's interests or its economy's interests. It is the job of the govt in power to look after these interests, using everything in its power. Carrot stick/Good cop bad cop approach works best (meaning, incentives + import duties + threats + restrictions + cajoling)

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

None of the car manufacturers (Chinese/Japanese/European/Indians) will build an EV ecosystem in India - unless their hand is forced. If given an option,....

On that note, I have been wondering about the Musk-Modi(Ji) on and off meetings. If Indian Govt offers Tesla to open 1 or 2 giga-factories and make a 110% Made in India Tesla (barring critical raw materials not found below Indian soil) will and should Tesla accept it?

Throw in some riders...

1) Dont sell in India for 5-7 years, only offer direct employment to 1000s and indirect growth to Industry in another 1000s?

2) Locally can Sell 20-25% of number of cars exported thus bringing in both Forex and employment.

3) Or any other brain storming points one can come up with...

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

If Indian Govt offers Tesla to open 1 or 2 giga-factories and make a 110% Made in India Tesla (barring critical raw materials not found below Indian soil) will and should Tesla accept it?

That's why Indian Govt policies on manufacturing are NOT led by policitians, but by technocrats. Whether it is EV or electronics manufacturing, MEITY is the organization making and implementing policies. And MEITY is led by Ashwini Vaishnaw & Rajeev Chandrasekhar. You can check their bios online, especially their careers before they entered politics.

And it is quite likely that they know a thing or two about how large businesses work and how investment decisions are actually taken. Their knowledge is not limited to some economics textbooks or advise from salaried economists who have never run a business. Along with book knowledge & advise from economists, these two gentlemen have real world business experience as decision makers.

So one can expect fair/reasonable/balanced policies towards manufacturers who decide to take the plunge & invest in India. But if Tesla does not come or BYD is not allowed to come, it is still fine. It won't be "end of the world" for India or its consumers. Whatever technology Tesla or BYD has will eventually trickle down to our Hyundais & Tatas, one way or the other.

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

...and Gets Demolished from opening a $1Bn factory in one of the world's largest car market.

And then make the Thar.e unaffordable because we think that manufacturing should remain in China

[chennai-indian]

Originally Posted by 1.2TSI7DSG

And then make the Thar.e unaffordable because we think that manufacturing should remain in China

Nope. If Chinese batteries are not available, alternatives will be sought or developed. All the more reason not to depend on China

[GeeTee TSI]

As someone brought up with storied brands and makes on the wall, it is an uncomfortable truth that the tables seem to have turned with EVs.

The brands we love(d) do not offer the best of the new technology while it is available from the new breed of players. A snapshot of the EV offerings in India as of now also portrays a similar story (with respect to established marques)

This even as I wait for my 'familar' marques to offer something credible

[volkman10]

See how the Made in China Evs are cost competitive:

The EU is finally concerned about the increasing popularity of the Chinese EVs. But how really cheaper they are compared to non-Chinese rivals?

[PreludeSH]

Ultimately world over starting with the West, they will resist Chinese dominance. Its left to chinese to decide if they keep providing raw materials for finished products or how they will react to such practices. We have seen this in technology sector. West should be ready to give up the Chinese market one day.

For India, we will adjust with what the West will construct of the supply chain. Its better to go overtly towards West and try and become the factory that China is. This will need a lot of support from our govt in the earnest sense.

[volkman10]

BYD is now conquering Southeast Asia, accounts for 26% of all EV sales.

The Chinese automaker sold more than 26% of all cars in Southeast Asia's small but fast-growing EV market in the second quarter of 2023 and its Atto 3 model, priced starting at $30,000 in Thailand, was the regional bestseller, according to Counterpoint. Tesla prices the most basic Model 3 from about $57,500 in Thailand.

Link

[lionheart_mm]

Unfortunately, this is the reality. I'm seeing more and more Chinese cars everyday here in the UAE. Now MG is like the 4th biggest car brand here after Toyota, Nissan and Mercedes.

BYD was launched here like a month or two ago and I have seen so many of them on the road already. If our government didn't block Chinese investment, a similar trend would have happened in India as well.

[volkman10]

Chinese automakers emerge dominant yet again in Europe’s sales charts.

Brands such as BYD, MG, Lotus, Great Wall, and Nio have all reported triple digit growth compared to last year.

MG is one of the biggest winners in the list, with the popular MG4 making Europe’s top 40 best-selling list. The MG ZS crossover is close behind, in 44th place. Total European sales for the brand in August 2023 were almost triple what they were in the same month last year, with 14,411 units being shifted vs. 5,338 previously. MG managed to shift more units last month than Volvo, Suzuki, and Mini.

BYD, bolstered by its growing European footprint, sold 2,685 cars last month. The model-by-model sales report shows a marked improvement from the 186 it delivered in August 2022. The largest new-energy vehicle producer in the world saw sales of its Atto 3 (2,559) take the lion’s share of the pie. The Atto 3 even managed to outsell cars like the Mercedes E-Class and the BMW 5-Series and 4-Series.

Link

[bijims]

Chinese cars are on a roll here in the Middle East, with MG being the second best-selling car brand in Oman, and the 4th best seller in UAE, Others like Changan, Geely, and JAC are also among the top best sellers in many Middle Eastern countries.

A couple of years ago, MG wasn't even on the radar, now they are in the top 5 in most of the GCC, that's such an improvement and a testament to the way Chinese cars have captured the market.

[PreludeSH]

EU is proposing EV makers to locally source materials. With the decisions being made with politics and some encouragement to local industry in mind, one day the only exportable goods would be human power. Bharat that is India is well placed