[RahulNagaraj]

According to a new study by the Anderson Economic Group, filling up petrol in internal-combustion cars tends to be much cheaper than charging an EV in the USA.

The study states that the average cost of filling up fuel on entry-level-priced cars is around $9.78 per 100 miles driven. In comparison, the cost of charging entry-level EVs at home comes to about $12.55 (at home) & $15.97 (at a charging station) per 100 miles. The entry-level-priced ICE cars mentioned in the study include the Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Mitsubishi Mirage and Nissan Versa, while entry-level EVs are the Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Bolt.



The story is said to be similar for mid-priced vehicles as well. The cost to fill-up fuel on mid-priced segment cars like the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry & Chevrolet Malibu, on average, comes up to $11.08 per 100 miles. However, the cost of charging mid-priced EVs like the Kia EV6, Ford Mustang Mach-e and Tesla Model 3/Y sits higher at $12.62 at home and $16.10 at a public charger, per 100 miles.

The only area where the cost of charging EVs is lower than filling up fuel is the luxury car segment. The BMW 5 Series, Porsche Macan and Audi A6 have an average fuel fill-up cost of $17.56 per 100 miles. On the other hand, the average cost of charging cars like the Porsche Taycan and Polestar 2 at home is $13.50 per 100 miles. The average cost when charging luxury cars via a public charger though does come up to $17.81.

The Group stated, “With electricity prices trending up and gas prices going down, most traditional gas-powered vehicles cost less to drive than their EV counterparts in the first half of 2023." They further added, “Drivers of luxury-priced electric vehicles still could save a little money compared to driving high-powered ICE vehicles, especially those needing premium gas."

Source: Anderson Economic Group

Link to Team-BHP news

[RaghavEvoX]

This is only for the North American region where the fuel prices are comparatively lower and have fluctuations based on International Brent crude.

For a country like India where we pay 3X of the actual fuel cost, any day an EV will be cheaper to run than ICE cars.

[davelok]

Originally Posted by RaghavEvoX

This is only for the North American region where the fuel prices are comparatively lower and have fluctuations based on International Brent crude.

For a country like India where we pay 3X of the actual fuel cost, any day an EV will be cheaper to run than ICE cars.

The difference between the two markets is that while the US produces two thirds of its petroleum requirements and has to import only a third, India imports more than 80% of its requirement. Hence we pay international prices for the scarce commodity and the government makes tax revenue from it to pay for infrastructure capex and other expenses.

The US also generates around 40% of its power from natural gas, which is a bit costly these days. Coal, which powers 20% of the US, is also expensive internationally, but they are self reliant in the commodity. India generates 70% of its power from coal, most of which is cheap domestic supply. Hence our electricity costs are low.

As and when international energy prices revert to their long term mean, the statistics cited in the original post may very well flip.

Till that time, they'll continue to provide us fodder for intense flame wars on power prices, taxation, renewable energy, and the cost of externalities.

[vamsi.kona]

I was trying to do some rough calculations with some google search thrown in.

Here are they.
The study probably considers the grid charges of US. However, if someone were able to use roof top solar, which apart from the CBD areas and the downtown areas, many US homes in smaller cities or suburbs of big cities can easily afford.

The average cost of a 5kW roof top solar costs about $15 - $25k it seems as per google search so I considered the mid price of $20k

A 5kW can produce, on average, somewhere around 6000kWh per year in LA it seems. (Again a google search). If we consider only 75% performance it will be 4500 kWh

If we consider a Model 3, the energy used per km, as per google again, is said to be 0.25kWh/km. So 4500kWh would give around 18,000 kms.

A roof top solar installation should typically have a life of around 20-25 years. Even if we consider degradation in performance and take only 75% performance as average it will give us 4500kWh per year which translates to 1,12,500 kWh over its life time. So the cost per kWh would be around $0.177 or $0.18 cents. So the effective cost is likely to be $0.18 per 4 kms, given Model 3 consumes around 0.25kWh per Km or $7.2 per 100 miles.

I am not a technical guy and was only interested in the economics part of the story. So if there are any mistakes in my assumptions please do correct them. And as pointed out most of the costs and figures were taken from google search and dialled down a bit.

[Enthusiast101]

Using EVs for saving cost will only work until it's new, the moment every car is EV, power requirements will skyrocket and the government will not get the taxes from petroleum, Electricity will be taxed and cost incentives will be gone. We have to adopt EVs from a climate perspective (if their batteries are produced sustainably, which is a debate right now)

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

A 5kW can produce, on average, somewhere around 6000kWh per year in LA it seems. (Again a google search). If we consider only 75% performance it will be 4500 kWh

A typically available solar panel only has an efficiency of 15-35%.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Enthusiast101

A typically available solar panel only has an efficiency of 15-35%.

This stated output is at the given efficiencies of existing commercial solar technologies. The 10kw rated solar setup on my rooftop generated over 10500 units in the year 2022. This is in Delhi NCR, where there is barely any generation during winter months due to smog.

[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by Enthusiast101

A typically available solar panel only has an efficiency of 15-35%.

I was using 75% of the actual stated efficiency i.e. 75% of the 20-30% efficiency. So the actual figure was 6000kWh which already considers the efficiency to be around 15%-25%. I took 75% of that to consider degradation of even that efficiency over the life time. And I think 35% is too high. All I read was that high quality panels have efficiency around 25% thereabouts.

[guptad42]

Don't worry about this study. AEG is a 'propaganda for hire' artist used by oil & gas and legacy automakers unable to offer competitive EVs in the market. AEG have been producing these studies for past few years. If you go through the assumptions in the study, it is easy to see these are deliberately and ridiculously biased to arrive at the conclusion that petrol cars are cheaper to fuel. Because that's the job they have been paid for.

For example, AEG claims that the time spent waiting to charge an EV is worth more than 400 dollars per month and adds it to the EV charging cost!. Yes, unbelievable but true. Some 5,000 dollars of the assumed EV charging cost per year is just this fake time cost of waiting.

At first, one may think these guys are cute little babies who have not yet heard of home charging. No, they have. But they also assume that expensive fast charging is used 40% of the time! That's cute. When in reality, very few Americans buy an EV without having access to charging at home or work.

The study makes no attempt to be honest. If it were not a deliberate attempt to discredit EVs, it'll be hilarious.

The purpose is simple.
1. If it produces doubt in even 20-30% of their readers to slow down EV adoption, it is a cheap way to gain a few more years of relevance by the folks who paid for this study.
2. Provide the anti-EV crowd a talking point because they have very few real ones to rely on.

A request to admins - such hit jobs should be covered at team-bhp with the right context to expose the false propaganda. Covering it as-is in the News section gives it credibility that it does not deserve, certainly not at team-bhp.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

This stated output is at the given efficiencies of existing commercial solar technologies. The 10kw rated solar setup on my rooftop generated over 10500 units in the year 2022. This is in Delhi NCR, where there is barely any generation during winter months due to smog.

I'm also thinking of getting a EV. Maybe the Kona and also a solar setup, so could you share some details on your setup? Which company, cost etc?

Mods, if off topic, please delete.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by nidhikapoor

I'm also thinking of getting a EV. Maybe the Kona and also a solar setup, so could you share some details on your setup? Which company, cost etc?

Mods, if off topic, please delete.

While Shreyans can definitely post more info on his setup, some more threads on this subject may be helpful to you...

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...wer-plant.html (Solar power! Turning my roof to a power plant)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ar-panels.html (Optimising Residential Rooftop Solar Panels)

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by Enthusiast101

Using EVs for saving cost will only work until it's new, the moment every car is EV, power requirements will skyrocket and the government will not get the taxes from petroleum, Electricity will be taxed and cost incentives will be gone. We have to adopt EVs from a climate perspective (if their batteries are produced sustainably, which is a debate right now)
.

You do realize that you can generate your own electricity right from peddling a bicycle to having your own solar panel. you can go off-grid with solar panels and I know quite a few folks who have already. While this is legal, producing your petrol or diesel is not, even if you find an oil well.

[kjayant]

I would take this study with a pinch of salt really!

This in large part seems like a last-ditch attempt by traditional ICE manufacturers to get in a consultant of credence, pay them very very well, and create a study to veer off potential adopters!

Only a deep dive into this research report would fish out the innumerous fine lines and logical assumptions that the consulting firm would have made before peddling out 100 pages of "Naysay" against the EVs.

Come on, I mean how many times have seen this in the past - one too many!

The invertible and the imminent must and will happen; come what may!

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ar-panels.html (Optimising Residential Rooftop Solar Panels)

Thanks for linking to this post, it was a good reminder for me to post an update.

[vivekrvcse]

What is purposeful miles? In Bangalore half the travel time is just stand still traffic with engine on.. EVs must be super efficient then - no?

[hemj]

Originally Posted by guptad42

A request to admins - such hit jobs should be covered at team-bhp with the right context to expose the false propaganda. Covering it as-is in the News section gives it credibility that it does not deserve, certainly not at team-bhp.

I second this. The credibility of team-bhp will be destroyed as some people can say, I read it on team bhp that ice cars are cheaper, so it must be true and later find out it's not.