[TusharK]

According to a media report, the government of India is working on the next phase of the Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Hybrid and Electric Vehicles (FAME III) scheme. Besides EVs, the new scheme is likely to cover alternative fuels as well.



The FAME scheme was introduced to promote manufacturing and sales of electric vehicles in the country. In the first phase, the focus was on electric 2-wheelers, wherein the government offered a 40% subsidy on the selling price.

Under FAME II, the subsidy on electric 2-wheelers was slashed to 15%. As per the latest reports, the third phase could see the inclusion of alternative fuels, such as hydrogen. It is also said that the government could offer enhanced support for electric 3-wheelers while reducing the subsidy on electric 2-wheelers.

The government is yet to formulate the FAME III scheme and is in the process of collecting additional inputs from industry stakeholders.

Source: ET Auto

Link to Team-BHP News

[Rohan1511]

I sincerely hope the 43% tax on Hybrid vehicles is removed under this scheme. Or atleast they should be promoting procurement of hybrid vehicles. We switch to electric today, tomorrow it's hydrogen and day after tomorrow it'll be wind.

[shyampsunder]

Having extensively followed the EV space in India and US, here are my thoughts:

1. The FAME 2 subsidy has done very well in the 2W space by providing incentives to the private sector to build EVs in India. Granted some have gamed the system etc but overall the progress we have made in the 2W EV space is remarkable.

2. The money given for charging infrastructure has been squandered by our OMCs like BPCL. 100s of crores spent on chargers which are lying dysfunctional in petrol pumps. If this money had gone to genuine startups in this area, it would've created a very decent highway charging infrastructure. So I hope this is rectified in FAME 3.

3. Given the limited budget allocations, India should simply steer clear of Hydrogen. Even with green hydrogen, it's going to take a lot more electricity to generate the hydrogen and use it in vehicles compared to EVs. Countries like the UK are already closing down Hydrogen fueling infra etc. Hydrogen is dead and the sooner we realize it, the better.

4. Toyota and Maruti are lobbying for yesterday's technology in the form of Hybrids because they are fast losing market share in the markets like China. Tax reduction for strong or plugin hybrids can be considered but definitely not subsidies which are supposed to accelerate the adoption of new technology.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by Rohan1511

I sincerely hope the 43% tax on Hybrid vehicles is removed under this scheme. Or atleast they should be promoting procurement of hybrid vehicles. We switch to electric today, tomorrow it's hydrogen and day after tomorrow it'll be wind.

Hydrogen as fuel for cars is a technological dead end; with combustion it falls in the "not even wrong" category. So there is no switching to hydrogen that is going to happen.

[SKC-auto]

What an incredibly stupid way to spend money. Hydrogen is a fail in cars, buses and even long range trucks. I do not understand the logic behind not giving subsidies for electric 2W which are utilized by common people but subsidizing fancy technology like H2 fuel cell.

There are many municipalities around the world which ordered H2 buses as pilot projects, retired those buses and ordered hundreds of Electric buses. Even long distance H2 trucks sold is miniscule compared to Electric trucks.

I believe this Fame3 subsidy is for CVs, it would be better to subsidize Electric CVs.

[wheelguy]

I see heavy lobbying from Maruti and Toyota, subsidizing hybrids stalls progression of EVs. Toyota is trying to dump its hydrogen technology in India, the technology which failed everywhere else, seems like they are planning to recover the losses from India's FAME scheme.

[HappyRider]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

2. The money given for charging infrastructure has been squandered by our OMCs like BPCL. 100s of crores spent on chargers which are lying dysfunctional in petrol pumps. If this money had gone to genuine startups in this area, it would've created a very decent highway charging infrastructure. So I hope this is rectified in FAME 3.

Couldn't agree more. Setting up chargers at IOCL and BPCL is such a waste of money. Only thing that favours them is probably having real estate and adequate power. These entities do not have any sincerity in operating the chargers. Moreover its not practical to wait at petrol bunks for 30-60 mins for your car to charge. Users need some facilities like washrooms, water etc. We all know how good these will be at Indian petrol bunks.

Government should have instead supported and encouraged start-ups and highway restaurants to set up charging facilities.

[callmeneo]

Baffles me on why the pure hybrids are given a step motherly treatment where in they might be the actual answer to reducing the pollution levels from automobiles considering the fact that majority of the car owners use it as a daily driver to office and intra city runs.
And they also serve as a good bridge for the fence sitters to migrate to EV's from ICE's.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

I see heavy lobbying from Maruti and Toyota, subsidizing hybrids stalls progression of EVs. Toyota is trying to dump its hydrogen technology in India, the technology which failed everywhere else, seems like they are planning to recover the losses from India's FAME scheme.

Toyota cannot dump hydrogen technology on its own mother, literally speaking. Of all the future technologies it's the least practical. Hydrogen cars equate to cars the size of a C class, the interior space of an Alto and the price of an E class. It's a combination of the worst of all worlds.

[Shresth_EV]

hybrids might be the actual answer to reducing the pollution levels from automobiles considering the fact that majority of the car owners use it as a daily driver to office and intra city runs.

What hybrids reduce by 5-10%, EVs reduce by 100%. Driving one hybrid may lower your CO2/km from 100g to 80g. But EV reduced that from 100 to ZERO.

Even accounting for grid, If we consider, the 100% coal scenario (worst case), the avg grid emissions as of 2020 was 614gCO2/kWh or 0.614gCO2/Wh.

(Figures taken from page 5 graph of this pdf :
https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploa...-apr2021-01pdf)

An EV like Nexon can get efficiency of 120Wh/km
An EV like Tiago can get even better at 100Wh/km

By this calculation, a 100% coal powered Nexon EV has a running emission of 74gCO2/km.
For Tiago EV it's 62gC02/km. In reality, the grid is 40% renewables, which makes real emissions at 30g and 25g CO2/km respectively.

The baleno SHVS gets 100gCO2/km acc to this pdf : https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploa...s-wp-FINAL.pdf

(Page 6 by index/page 11 by pdf pages)

Originally Posted by Rohan1511

I sincerely hope the 43% tax on Hybrid vehicles is removed under this scheme.

Originally Posted by callmeneo

Baffles me on why the pure hybrids are given a step motherly treatment

FAME deals with subsides mostly, not revising tax regimes.

As such, hybrids have already got subsidy from govt under FAME previously. FAME is not a consumer end subsidy, it’s a manufacturer end subsidy.

I think it’s only fair that since EV subsidy quota have not been increased after they were filled up through sales over last few years, there’s no reasons to add quota for hybrids if not doing the same for EVs too.

For the record, those who didn’t know there was a subsidy :

Maruti squandered that subsidy quota by selling nano femto hybrid (SHVS)

https://theicct.org/sites/default/fi...T_27122016.pdf

Page 2 btw

(A shame that govt document is so badly written and uploaded on some obscure site that I have to post the pdf of the document from third party outsider ICCT who have better access, formatting and readability the the govt who made this scheme

If anyone, then not govt, Maruti is to blame for wasting the quota on their fake hybrids instead of actual hybrids being sold now.

The current scenario is even footing for both EVs and Hybrids. EV subsidy quota also expired in March 2023 for ITR rebate of 1.5L and states like delhi ncr also exhausted the quota within 1 year of the subsidy going online (2020-2021)

Neither type of quota has been increased or excess budget allocated. You might’ve heard that EV scooters are getting costlier due to FAME subsidy rollback. Same quota system. It’s just.

TeamBHP thread on this topic :

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ir%20customers (Maruti gets notice for the second time for 'dubious' hybrid tech (SHVS)).

Maruti got into legal trouble too. But damage is already done. Due to someone driving a ciaz /baleno shvs nano femto hybrid, you and I will never get subsidy on city eHEV, GV, Hycross or Camry. Thank Maruti for still acting as the victim though, after embezzling this subsidy and still crying foul

[Rohan1511]

Originally Posted by Shresth_EV

What hybrids reduce by 5-10%, EVs reduce by 100%. Driving one hybrid may lower your CO2/km from 100g to 80g. But EV reduced that from 100 to ZERO.


Neither type of quota has been increased or excess budget allocated. You might’ve heard that EV scooters are getting costlier due to FAME subsidy rollback. Same quota system. It’s just.

TeamBHP thread on this topic :

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ir%20customers (Maruti gets notice for the second time for 'dubious' hybrid tech (SHVS)).

Maruti got into legal trouble too. But damage is already done. Due to someone driving a ciaz /baleno shvs nano femto hybrid, you and I will never get subsidy on city eHEV, GV, Hycross or Camry. Thank Maruti for still acting as the victim though, after embezzling this subsidy and still crying foul

Surely it's still the government's duty to ensure free and fair use of these subsidies? Why aren't other Automobile manufacturers making the same case you're making against Maruti? If they are, please share any information as i'm not aware.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by Rohan1511

Why aren't other Automobile manufacturers making the same case you're making against Maruti? If they are, please share any information as i'm not aware.

No manufacturer will take a confrontational route. It’s bad for PR to be the Sherlock. For the record, even at time of dieselgate, no competitor ever tried to take an indirect jibe at VW, let alone direct confrontation.

No manufacturer will directly say on their face (as in press release or else) that “Maruti did tax evasion, Maruti misappropriated subsidy funds”. If you are expecting that kind of reaction, it neither did happen, nor will happen ever in future as well.

Although, as such, everyone except the Japanese pretty much support EVs if not directly berate hybrids. Only MS-Toyota-Honda seem to be in on the hybrid way, and visibly so, they would not be among the finger raisers.

TML/M&M have been most vocal among others on the EV side though.

Link 1 Economic Times

Link 2 AutocarIn

Link 3 moneycontrol

HMG and MG-SAIC has expressed similar interest. In fact, MG launched and subsequently axed their 48V hector hybrid.

AutocarInPro (HMG)

Reuters (MG)

As you see, it’s not possible to call these things out face2face. Unlike a random individual on the internet with zero media influence, similar statement coming from rival brand can invite legal ramifications which nobody likes. (Accused losing face and accuser spending money to fight defamation case)

Surely it's still the government's duty to ensure free and fair use of these subsidies?

Which is exactly why the notice was issued (see the linked teambhp thread in my prev post) and why the fine worth 70cr was levied.

Govt did take action but that doesn’t change the fact that funds are already gone. If anything, a fine worth 70cr is very menial punishment compared to what tax evasion punishment is for individuals.

Every statement has a complement. You may say “Justice delayed is justice denied” — “it serves no purpose for govt to act AFTER the event.”

But the obvious complement here is, “better late than never”. At least it didn’t get buried away in paperwork of the bureaucracy like a million other cases in the country.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Rohan1511

Surely it's still the government's duty to ensure free and fair use of these subsidies? Why aren't other Automobile manufacturers making the same case you're making against Maruti? If they are, please share any information as i'm not aware.

Wasn't just Maruti, Mahindra was also in on the scam, by selling start-stop equipped cars as mild-hybrids. The government has learnt it's lessons and has strict guidelines in place for EVs Plus the world over hybrids have become passé due to the fast progress of EVs. Electric cars today do 95% of what ICE or ICE hybrids do with 0% of the tailpipe emissions and use 0% imported fuel.

[harikrishnansp]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Wasn't just Maruti, Mahindra was also in on the scam, by selling start-stop equipped cars as mild-hybrids. The government has learnt it's lessons and has strict guidelines in place for EVs Plus the world over hybrids have become passé due to the fast progress of EVs. Electric cars today do 95% of what ICE or ICE hybrids do with 0% of the tailpipe emissions and use 0% imported fuel.

True. In fact, Mahindra went a step further and called a car without any torque assist or energy regeneration (which maruti has, even though a very small assist) as a mild hybrid.

[volkman10]

Finance ministry not inclined to charge up FAME 3.

Government is of the view that the EV market has reached a point of maturity. (?)

Besides, support is also being offered under performance-linked incentives for battery, and auto component manufacturing.

Link: