[shortbread]

Reminds one of a parent taunting us when we were little... 'itna jaldi wapas ayaa?'

Apparently Tesla has had a change of mind and is taking another look at entering India. Dear Tesla, India is a low lying fruit if you are ready to invest time and resources.

Tesla Executives to Visit India This Week in Pivot Beyond China

- Carmaker looking to potentially expand its India supply chain
- Executives slated to meet federal government officials


A group of senior Tesla Inc. executives plan to visit India this week to meet with federal government officials in a newfound bid to deepen the carmaker’s supply chain in the country as it pushes to diversify beyond China.

The executives are scheduled to meet with government representatives including those from the office of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to discuss local sourcing of components for Tesla’s models, people familiar with the matter said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uverify%20wall

Tesla needs India more than India needs Tesla.

'You can love me or hate me but.. you can't ignore me' - SRK

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Tesla needs India more than India needs Tesla.

Don't agree with this statement, Tesla could hardly sell 2 weeks of Giga Shanghai production in an year in India. We need more jobs in future tech industry, hope they build Giga factory for Model 2, similar to the one being built in Mexico.

India could be the export hub for RHD cars. Elon Musk is already meeting with French, South Korean, Indonesian politicians.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Don't agree with this statement, Tesla could hardly sell 2 weeks of Giga Shanghai production in an year in India. We need more jobs in future tech industry, hope they build Giga factory for Model 2, similar to the one being built in Mexico.

India could be the export hub for RHD cars. Elon Musk is already meeting with French, South Korean, Indonesian politicians.

With the current line up yes, it will remain a miniscule player in India. But Elon has made it very clear he needs Tesla to garner more volumes as he's not interested in simply being constrained by the premium - limited volumes game. What is the point of creating manufacturing efficiencies if they are not interested in increasing up volumes?

So Tesla needs a cheaper car that will sell much more than the 3 and all rumours state that they have one in the pipeline.

Regarding my point as to why Tesla needs India more, our market will continue to grow with or without them. Tesla joining the race is not going change the size of the Indian car market. Albeit being successful in the 3rd largest car market in the world car really alter Tesla's fortunes.

Yes it would be great if Tesla can export cars from India and all signs point that the current Govt. will bend over backwards for any investor willing to do so. But saying that 'we'll get cars from china to test the market first' will simply be scoffed upon.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

---
India could be the export hub for RHD cars. Elon Musk is already meeting with French, South Korean, Indonesian politicians.

Which RHD Tesla car you are referring to, Tesla Model 3? Don't think so India can be the manufacturing hub for that.

Tesla announces it won’t produce Model S and Model X in right-hand-drive

Link

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by shortbread

But saying that 'we'll get cars from china to test the market first' will simply be scoffed upon.

Definitely big no for Chinese made cars, my only point is Tesla coming to India is win-win for both parties, as we are also talking about cheaper cars like Model 2.

Originally Posted by volkman10

Which RHD Tesla car you are referring to, Tesla Model 3? Don't think so India can be the manufacturing hub for that.

Link

Model S and Model X are only made at Fremont, not even at Shanghai.

India can be export hub for RHD Model 3/ Y and upcoming Model 2(to be built in Mexico) cars.
Any particular reason Model 3 may not be exported from here?

[RM Motorsports]

With the news of Tesla executives visiting India, Tesla's Model 3 pops up in Kochi.

[avishar]

Tesla investment in India will be limited, but there are avenues.

1. Setting up of a Global Capability Centre by Tesla would be welcome. India has a strong presence amongst global Automotive captive R&D and this is something the government can actually push.

2. Tesla might look for auto-component procurement for their Europe or US plants from India. A step-up from that would be if the government can offer a PLI deal to Tesla to set up their own facility for sub-components to be exported.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by shortbread

With the current line up yes, it will remain a miniscule player in India. But Elon has made it very clear he needs Tesla to garner more volumes as he's not interested in simply being constrained by the premium - limited volumes game. What is the point of creating manufacturing efficiencies if they are not interested in increasing up volumes?

So Tesla needs a cheaper car that will sell much more than the 3 and all rumours state that they have one in the pipeline.

The average selling price of a car in India is 7.7 lakhs. Tesla has no plans of launching a car even close to that price point. The highest selling car in India last year was a Maruti WagonR at 2 lakh units. For comparison, Tesla sold over 3.15 lakh Model Y's in China last year alone!

Originally Posted by shortbread

Regarding my point as to why Tesla needs India more, our market will continue to grow with or without them. Tesla joining the race is not going change the size of the Indian car market. Albeit being successful in the 3rd largest car market in the world car really alter Tesla's fortunes.

Most car companies are barely profitable in India if at all. Our sales are growing but not nearly fast enough. Infact it is the opposite now as our automobile sales peaked in 2019 at 4.4mn units.Overlay the fact that we dont buy very many expensive cars, cars which would be considered cheap in most other markets, even some developing markets.

Originally Posted by shortbread

Yes it would be great if Tesla can export cars from India and all signs point that the current Govt. will bend over backwards for any investor willing to do so. But saying that 'we'll get cars from china to test the market first' will simply be scoffed upon.

Tesla still operates like a lean start up even though they make more than $3.5bn in profit every quarter and they simply wont commit to a significant investment unless they can test waters.

[BoneCollector]

Will Tesla actually set up a manufacturing plant in India?

Link

Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has proposed setting up a factory in India to build electric cars for domestic sale and export, the carmaker told government officials on Wednesday, according to a source with direct knowledge of the matter.

The proposal comes after India refused to agree to Tesla's request last year to lower the import tax on cars, which can reach as much as 100%. India wanted the carmaker to build vehicles locally but Tesla wanted to test the market first with imports and the talks ended in deadlock.

[Briarean]

My take is a little different here. Even though Tesla cars are the best EVs in the world, I think we Indians are not ready for it.

Even the most basic ADAS features in our Indian cars are getting confused by the Indian road signs and potholes. It’s not different even on highways and expressways. Moreover, sensing the bikers, Autos, STC buses, trucks, tractors, cattle, and jaywalkers on our roads, may need ADAS on a Quantum computer.

With all these issues, Tesla’s Autopilot features and full self-driving capabilities will have a meltdown here. ( The Tesla R&D can set up a shop here to study these as things that happen on our roads are something that Americans cannot even dream of, and Hollywood VFX cannot create.)

However, Tesla can bring its Solar portfolio here. As our country receives one of the most solar outputs in the world, going solar is one of the best options for Indians as well as the government. Moreover, their solar options are not as expensive as their cars. That means a break-even for their investments can be achieved in less time.

Their solar cell and Powerwall manufacturing will also give the competition a big push for their R&D to develop better solar panels and integrated solar power generating systems.

They can also have an R&D facility here in India for SpaceX.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

The average selling price of a car in India is 7.7 lakhs. Tesla has no plans of launching a car even close to that price point. The highest selling car in India last year was a Maruti WagonR at 2 lakh units. For comparison, Tesla sold over 3.15 lakh Model Y's in China last year alone!

Each month India sells 70-80k cars in the 12lac + price point and each passing year the average prices of the cars continue to go up as more Indians prefer bigger cars. What Tesla's future plan entails isn't confirmed in any reports, all Musk has definitively said is that he is looking for the volumes game. If that's the case they will need to launch cars smaller and cheaper than the 3.

All car makers sell more cars in china, but if they need to grow they will look at other markets. In that market the local EV players receive massive state support and are eating into Tesla's market share. Unlike china Tesla has next to no competition in India, Tata is learning the ropes and still struggling to ramp up EV production volumes, maruti is clueless, has no technical prowess and will be too late to the party. Tesla's china sales is similar to that of Mahindra, and we all know Mahindra isn't in the business of selling small cheap cars like maruti.

Also more than half of Tesla's china production is being exported. Well if there's more demand from export markets why not diversify to India rather than have all its eggs in the china basket. Most major manufacturers across various industries are now looking to diversify from china.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Most car companies are barely profitable in India if at all. Our sales are growing but not nearly fast enough. Infact it is the opposite now as our automobile sales peaked in 2019 at 4.4mn units.Overlay the fact that we dont buy very many expensive cars, cars which would be considered cheap in most other markets, even some developing markets.

Hasn't all car markets fallen from it's pre pandemic peak? In fact china saw it's peak in 2017! Now just like India they too are seeing post pandemic demand pick up. Rest assured our car sales have been on a better footing than advanced economies that are struggling with multi-decade high interest rates and stagnant demand.

Of all the segments it's the pricier models that are seeing fastest growth in India.

Profitability in India depends on how they run their business. Toyota has always remained profitable despite limited volumes and even a new entrant like KIA has been able to find success with the right products. Launch the right package and our market will lap it up, heck they'll wait months for delivery, ask Mahindra.

You're right many manufacturers struggle to find success in India and some even threw away dominant market positions like Honda and Ford. Once upon a time they could not make enough Citys and Ecosports ,as well as had a successful export operations. They threw it all away due to abysmal strategies.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Tesla still operates like a lean start up even though they make more than $3.5bn in profit every quarter and they simply wont commit to a significant investment unless they can test waters.

Like I said if they want to wait or not enter at all, it's their call. India is not forcing them to enter the market.

[RaghuVis]

Oh my G.O.D! loving all these extreme ranges of emotions!

Myth 1 : Tesla needs India more than India needs Tesla
Reality : Absolutely no! Vehicle Manufacturing is not a lucrative business in India. Ask yourself why Mr Ambani has not ventured into it in decades.

Myth 2 : India is a low-lying fruit and hence a good place for the auto industry.
Reality : Setting up a factory now is exponentially more expensive than when Mercedes or BMW did. In the last decade, we have seen only Kia, MG and Jeep/C3 come in. Many left like GM/Ford/Datsun etc. Toyota did not expand even when they are the world's biggest force in the automotive world for years. What more proof is needed?

Myth 3 : Tesla not to produce RHD cars.
Reality : I think Tesla is going to miss out heavily. Eventually, it is all going to be numbers that dictate this. Australia, India, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, South Africa, Thailand, UK etc. are RHD/RHT. All it takes will be a BYD to penetrate these markets before Musk realizes his mistake. And Elon would be the first one to admit the mistake, so fanboys please beware before blindly supporting him. Also who says only RHD can be exported from India? Most of our OEMs export LHD as well.

Myth 4 : We Indians are not ready for Tesla.
Reality :

One thing people forget here is that, largely, Tesla/Elon does not identify itself as a car company but as some sort of Electronics/IT firm. Elon needs to be careful if he thinks he can miss out on investment in the Indian IT space and still be a global leader. I see Tesla overtaken by BYD in a very significant manner in the next couple of years. Maybe that will put some sense into him regarding Indian investments.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Each month India sells 70-80k cars in the 12lac + price point and each passing year the average prices of the cars continue to go up as more Indians prefer bigger cars. What Tesla's future plan entails isn't confirmed in any reports, all Musk has definitively said is that he is looking for the volumes game. If that's the case they will need to launch cars smaller and cheaper than the 3.

Everyone knows that there would be a cheaper Tesla, it is literally in their master plan which is available on the internet, the so called $25k Tesla (would be closer to $30 or more when it actually launches). The Mexico factory is to build that exact same car for local and for exports.

I am not sure how you came with that number - is 12 lakhs ex-showroom or 12 lakhs including taxes. Even if it is 12 lakhs without taxes, it is still way off the cheapest proposed Tesla ($30k USD)

Originally Posted by shortbread

All car makers sell more cars in china, but if they need to grow they will look at other markets. In that market the local EV players receive massive state support and are eating into Tesla's market share.

Yes and they are looking at other markets. And no, it is not just the local EV players who received massive state support in the form of subsidies - China EV subsidies were for every manufacturer including Tesla. There is a reason why the largest Tesla factory in the world is in China.

As for eating market share - the only market share that is being eaten is the ICE sales which are literally collapsing and mostly european premium brands.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...iation%20(CPCA).

Originally Posted by shortbread

Unlike china Tesla has next to no competition in India, Tata is learning the ropes and still struggling to ramp up EV production volumes, maruti is clueless, has no technical prowess and will be too late to the party. Tesla's china sales is similar to that of Mahindra, and we all know Mahindra isn't in the business of selling small cheap cars like maruti.

This makes no sense at all. The decision is not even based on competition as there cant just be one brand that rules the market - its purely based on business aka volumes.

Originally Posted by shortbread

Also more than half of Tesla's china production is being exported. Well if there's more demand from export markets why not diversify to India rather than have all its eggs in the china basket. Most major manufacturers across various industries are now looking to diversify from china.

This totally wrong. Tesla exported 261k Model Y and 3's from China last year and they produced almost 730k. Thats close to 1/3rd not half.

That diversification wont be easy or even possible I would argue and whatever there is, its miniscule in comparison to the larger picture. Elon in an interview just yesterday said, manufacturing and China are like conjoined twins, next to impossible to separate. And they have a huge domestic market too - infact the largest in the world and not just cars.

Originally Posted by shortbread

Hasn't all car markets fallen from it's pre pandemic peak? In fact china saw it's peak in 2017! Now just like India they too are seeing post pandemic demand pick up. Rest assured our car sales have been on a better footing than advanced economies that are struggling with multi-decade high interest rates and stagnant demand.

Of all the segments it's the pricier models that are seeing fastest growth in India.

Our annual automobile sales in 2011 were 3.18mn units, 12 years later we are at 3.79mn. Hardly any growth to speak of. Even our peak sales of 4.4mn isnt that impressive. On top of that the real volume sales are cheap small cars.

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

One thing people forget here is that, largely, Tesla/Elon does not identify itself as a car company but as some sort of Electronics/IT firm. Elon needs to be careful if he thinks he can miss out on investment in the Indian IT space and still be a global leader. I see Tesla overtaken by BYD in a very significant manner in the next couple of years. Maybe that will put some sense into him regarding Indian investments.

Except that BYD is barely profitable while Tesla is the most profitable car maker on the planet already and that is in the middle of scaling two new factories - Austin and Berlin. As for IT and Tesla missing out, they are mostly vertically integrated and they write all of their software in house from omni channel experience to managing charging to factory operations to analytics and even data centers and they are doing just fine without having an IT footprint in India. Elon is not your typical corporate CEO. He is an engineer at heart. This is a slide from Tesla investor day yesterday - the so called Tesla operating system - all of it their custom software

[Aditya]

Tesla executives to visit India & meet PMO officials - Posts moved to a new thread.

[GTO]

Guys, I'm still not convinced about Tesla's commitment to India and if we'll see their cars here. For one, they've wanted special favours which the Government has made clear it won't offer. And rightly so, today, even Mercedes + Hyundai etc. are building their global EVs here. What makes Tesla so special?

More importantly, Tesla just discontinued right-hand-drive models (news source), even in markets like UK & Australia. UK still allows new LHD cars on their roads, whereas it is banned in India (justifiably).