[guptad42]

Originally Posted by sharathkamath04

Curious, what technology are we talking about?

LFP is a stable battery tech that is less costly and more India-friendly (summers can get very hot) compared to NMC. NMC will escalate the cost further and make EVs less commercially viable.

XUV400 is a bigger car (vs Nexon) and comes with NMC. What has stopped MnM from packing a bigger battery into it? I assume the cost.

IMHO Tata is doing decently when it comes to EV. The price vs range compromise has been spot on with all 3 EVs. With Tata's new battery plant coming up in the UK and India, we will see new tech in the future.

The PunchMR gets lesser power to ensure a decent range with the lower pack and keeps costs less by having disc breaks only on front wheels..etc

Yes, I was also referring to LFP tech. LFP battery R&D has kept on improving energy density, especially at top volume manufacturers like CATL and BYD. If we just restrict ourselves to main production variants of LFP:

• LFP cells were around 90-100 Wh/kg 5 years ago
• ...then it improved to ~120 Wh/kg
• ... then further to 150-165 Wh/kg around 2021. This is probably the most commonly used generation of LFP in EVs outside India.
• Latest CATL LFP are around 190 Wh/kg. The production of these is for CATL's JVs with big car makers, though CATL seems to sell some excess quantity to outside buyers as well.
• The latest from CATL is a variation of LFP that is around 210Wh/kg. CATL is calling it the M3P battery. It dopes some of the Iron (Fe) sites in LFP with other metals like magnesium, zinc, aluminium etc. It was designed to be manufactured on the 190Wh/kg production lines with minor changes to the line. Just going into production. Chery/Huawei's new Luxeed S7 launched in China with this battery. Big 5m long car. 550km range, 800V fast charging, LIDAR and ADAS. for $35,000. Top variant claims some 850km range.

And, I am not even talking of cheaper Sodium Ion that are going into production in 2024.

So, yes. At the premium Tata Motors is asking for their EVs, I expect them to do better on the battery (and charging speeds and quality control).

Two interesting side bits:

1. Some of the early improvements in LFP tech were actually made by American firms like A123. They faced major production quality problems, and carmakers (like GM) ditched them to switch to existing battery makers like LG Chem. The Chinese firms saw the potential and purchased these startups at fire sale prices, invested in more R&D to fix the production problems, and then kept on improving the batteries further.

2. Chinese battery makers had a strong financial incentive because their govt's battery and EV subsidies were linked to energy density and range. and these density and range targets kept going up every time the govt updated the policy. I am not fond of the Chinese, but I don't mind picking up a good idea when I see one

[VaibhavShatna95]

I think our forum members are showing bias against Tata EVs. I see the same things being pointed out at every launch, mostly comparing the price point of EV to ICE counterpart.

The product is what it is, TAMO ICE counterparts have engines and transmissions which lag by a country mile infront of EVs plus EVs are cheaper to run in the long haul. It will break even certainly for anyone who holds cars for 5-10 years.

I was waiting for this launch but got Tiago EV last year, this vehicle is an enticing proposition as the interiors are much better, a lot more features, more range and all without breaking a bank.

I think I will add this as well to my garage but to each his own. My only advice would be to not to dismiss EVs before having a test drive. See if it puts a smile on your face infront of their weak ICE counterparts, I would even go as far as to argue, EVs are the most pleasurable driving experience you can have at their price points, certainly for mainstream ones.
Bigger is not always better if you live in cities with our infrastructure, rather I feel it is more of a herd mentality that people would choose large manual ICE vehicles when 95% of their driving conditions would be met by EV without even charging mid journey.

[theGoanGuy]

Originally Posted by Revvatron

I think Tiago EV will suffer the most. I see lot of Tigor EV's doing cab duties. They kind of replaced dzire diesel's I guess.

I still see the LR mid variants of the Tiago EV as a better option for someone with a tight budget who wants a city car. The introduction of the Punch EV makes the Tigor EV redundant now. Will the Tigor EV only be sold as a cab? And are there any chances of the Tigor EV being discontinued?

[thomahawk]

Originally Posted by Revvatron

I think Tiago EV will suffer the most. I see lot of Tigor EV's doing cab duties. They kind of replaced dzire diesel's I guess.

From what I had heard from the sales manager who sold me my Tiago EV, they ended the year with less than expected numbers. Perhaps the Nexon EV facelift didn't bring in the expected volume (looking at the discounts already available) and they had to bring in Punch EV sooner to make up for it. Punch EV will eat into all other models in their EV lineup - and I think even Nexon low range models will suffer quite a bit.

Also I guess Tata passed on the benefits from the fall in battery cost as the 'green discount' for Tiago. Perhaps that might become a permanent price cut. I remember Tata announced an imminent price hike just before festive season, but nothing happened; So there might be some pressure to keep the volume coming.

[shortbread]

Any info as to when the first drives/reviews will be out?

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by punto_

Attached Hyderabad prices. It’s over 5L (top variant) expensive vs the Petrol variant.

Originally Posted by King_Julien

The top variant of EV price is inclusive of all the mentioned items except sun roof.

According to videos and documents, sun roof is an additional item for rs.50k.

In Tata website variant picker, it is mentioned as Empowered+S LR variant at rs.14.99L with sunroof and mood lighting.

@ King_Julien, precisely, the top variant of the EV version is way more loaded than that the petrol top variant. The top EV carries a lot more kit like a sun roof, bigger screen and more apps, 360 cameras, 6 air bags, ventilated seats etc etc

In a more realistic features to features comparison the Punch EV LR adventure (with LED headlamps, 6 airbags, ESP, electronic parking brake with auto hold) is 2.8L more than the top Petrol AMT variant, or the LR empowered variant that is 3.8L more.

This is a palatable premium for the EV long range variant and is a far better package than the AMT petrol version. The EV is far more refined, better power and much lower running costs.

[sumosari]

How do you rate top variant of Punch.EV with XUV400 after updated interiors now both are pricing just 1L difference?? Looking advise from EV experts

[pgsagar]

Interesting comparison. Hard to pick one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To4GoVrzjF0

[sharathkamath04]

Originally Posted by sumosari

How do you rate top variant of Punch.EV with XUV400 after updated interiors now both are pricing just 1L difference?? Looking advise from EV experts

XUV400 is a much bigger car. Comparing it with Punch.ev may not be fair. It must rival Curvv given its size.

XUV400 (if you manage to get it at the intro price) is a bigger car, with faster charging capacity at a DC charger. But it's MnM's first car, so be ready for initial issues.

Punch.ev is a smaller city-friendly car. Flat floor, easy entry exit, more features, and some assurance that tata has fixed all existing issues.

Range will be almost same for both.

[Excaliber_007]

Originally Posted by sharathkamath04

XUV400 is a much bigger car. Comparing it with Punch.ev may not be fair. It must rival Curvv given its size.

XUV400 (if you manage to get it at the intro price) is a bigger car, with faster charging capacity at a DC charger. But it's MnM's first car, so be ready for initial issues.

Punch.ev is a smaller city-friendly car. Flat floor, easy entry exit, more features, and some assurance that tata has fixed all existing issues.

Range will be almost same for both.

Real world range of XUV400 is approximately 200-220 kms.
Punch EV will definitely be 300kms+.

[jillako]

Is Adaptive Cruise available on the Punch.EV?

[ashutoshb]

Tata has taken the MG Comet formula and nailed it. Small doesn't always mean cheap, doesn't always mean bare bones. All those who wanted more features in a small car will like what is being offered.

Once the Punch ICE comes up with all the feature additions, the price gap between the EV sibling will come down. Even more, if a DCA variant is announced.

Buyers with a 15 lakh budget, looking for an automatic crossover, might want to look at the Punch EV. For a little less space, they will get mostly all the features, EV performance, EV running costs at roughly the same money. Looks are subjective and Korean interiors are much better. Still, have a look at the prices below:

[Excaliber_007]

Mod note: Back to back post, use Multi Quote [Quote +] instead. Thanks.

Originally Posted by jillako

Is Adaptive Cruise available on the Punch.EV?

No ADAS features offered in Punch EV.

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

Once the Punch ICE comes up with all the feature additions, the price gap between the EV sibling will come down. Even more, if a DCA variant is announced.

During the launch of Punch EV, I remember hearing Mr. Chandra saying that going forward, EV variants will be more feature packed than ICE counterparts. This is to attract potential buyers towards the EV segment. Others can confirm.

[thomahawk]

Originally Posted by VaibhavShatna95

I feel it is more of a herd mentality that people would choose large manual ICE vehicles when 95% of their driving conditions would be met by EV without even charging mid journey.

I don't think the market has many options to choose from if one is not inclined to own a Tata. The after sales experience must improve by quite a margin before one can own one of these as their only car.

There are far too many niggles one must live with; I bought my Tiago EV after waiting for more than a year. Yet my car had most of the issues owners pointed out on the launch car. There was a dead cricket inside the cabin light – how terrible could their QC be for that to happen? I found nuts and plastic rivets in nooks and crannies of the car – not sure if belonged to the car or if they fell off from assembly line.

TASS made me wait for 2 weeks for a fan replacement without a courtesy car. Escalation to regional office was just redirected to the dealer itself over an email – so you are at your dealer’s mercy. I love the car, but I only recommended it to friends who could live with these – not everyone can.

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by Excaliber_007

During the launch of Punch EV, I remember hearing Mr. Chandra saying that going forward, EV variants will be more feature packed than ICE counterparts. This is to attract potential buyers towards the EV segment. Others can confirm.

Yep, ACI reported on this too. Punch ICE facelift expected in mid 2025 or later. Gives them enough time to differentiate between the two siblings. There might be more visual changes too. More than what we have seen so far.