[RahulNagaraj]

Recurrent recently conducted a new study which details exactly how much it costs to replace the battery pack on some popular EVs in the market.

The study tends to apply more to older vehicles since most of the newer models have warranties, which cover repairs and/or replacement for a certain number of years. The cost is also dependent on whether the battery is replaced by the OEM or via a third-party shop. Based on various factors, the study placed the average battery replacement cost at $137 per kWh.



The study shows that batteries on cars like the BMW i3 cost anywhere between $2500 for a used example, to $16,000 for a brand new one when directly purchased from the OEM. This equates between $145/kWh to $727/kWh. GM had priced the battery pack of a Chevy Bolt at $15,734 in 2017, which, however, was closer to $16,000 in dealerships even before adding labour charges. This puts the dollar-to-capacity ratio for the Chevy Bolt at $250/kWh, which is its cheapest option.

The Nissan Leaf, one of the most popular EVs in the global market, has a battery replacement cost ranging between $3500 to $9500, depending on the battery capacity. This comes out to anywhere between $150/kWh to $187.5/kWh, all excluding labour.



Another popular example is the Tesla Model 3, whose batteries have been priced between $10,000 - $15,799. The Model S batteries are priced even higher between $12,000 - $22,000. The Volkswagen e-Golf is yet another EV with a high battery price of $23,443, which comes out to a massive $654/kWh - the highest among all vehicles mentioned in the list.

Source: RecurrentAutos

Link to Team-BHP news

[GTO]

I don't have any concerns with OEMs who approach this correctly, have proper battery management tools in place and focus on quality. But not all batteries are created equal and I do expect some EV owners to be staring at big battery replacement bills a couple of years down the line. Reva owners being asked to shell out 2 lakhs for a battery are still fresh in the head and even in the current times, we have brands like Citroen launching the C3 Electric without a liquid-cooled battery.

Would love to hear from anyone who has information on battery replacement costs in India. Am sure some Tata / MG EVs have had replacements under warranty. Guess a few Hyundai Kona owners had their batteries replaced too.

[On4Wheels]

I totally agree with you. Now, it is just the beginning and manufactures are kind to the buyers in replacement of battery (possibly a gambit to achieve the technology maturity). I think, the cost of replacement would be transferred to customers once the volume increases. The terms and conditions of battery warranty need to be studied well. Also, I speculate that companies may discontinue the long warranty program for the battery in near future.

At present, even with the present eight year warranty, the stake of risk a buyer takes is much higher than that of the manufacturer.

[aim120]

So all the above only have NMC or NCA type cells and out of which pouch cells are the worst (Kona, Bolt EV), while cylindrical cells are the best (All tesla vehicles).

To be fair, pouch cell are also found in Chevy Volt, Bolt EUV but they don't sell as well as Tesla.

Not a single car made exclusively with LFP battery is on the list. Tesla started using them in the recent years in Model 3/Y for the standard range versions.

Prismatic cells of NMC are found in Nissan Leaf.

But only Tesla and Nissan Leaf have been selling since a decade in large numbers, which means their battery cell and pack design is excellent.

[FourWheelDrift]

Recurrent have also released a related study on how long EV batteries last, with some data overlap with the battery replacement cost study.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/resear...batteries-last

I'm not sure the report at the link above takes into account replacement batteries after an EV crashes. Reuters has published a report on this :

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-03-20/

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift

[one-77]

Originally Posted by GTO

Would love to hear from anyone who has information on battery replacement costs in India. Am sure some Tata / MG EVs have had replacements under warranty. Guess a few Hyundai Kona owners had their batteries replaced too.

During my XC40 Recharge test drive last week, I did as the salesperson about battery replacement. He said there are 28 cells that can be replaced individually and cost about 70k on average, so if done out of pocket, we are looking at ~20 lacs or roughly one-third the cost of the car.

However, most manufacturers guarantee 70% battery health for 8 years/ 1,60,000 kms, which is the legal minimum in the US.

[shyampsunder]

Originally Posted by On4Wheels

I speculate that companies may discontinue the long warranty program for the battery in near future.

Actually, it's the other way around.

1. Tata motors MD has publicly commented that their batteries are holding up better than they expected.
2. BYD is providing battery warranty for 500k KMs for commercial usage on their E6 models. Unthinkable in the ICE world.
3. Mercedes is offering 10-year warranties on their cars in India.

As battery tech evolves, we should see more companies offer longer warranties

[Jeroen]

Interesting. Even though, as mentioned, it is expected for these prices to come down, I think comparing it to swapping motor and gearbox, there is not that much of a difference.

It would be interesting to see these numbers broken down in the cost for the battery and labour. In most western countries tries cost of labour is very substantial. Certainly compared to India.

Dealerships will charge easily between euro 75 - 120. Independent garages would be a little less.

I wonder to what degree they really design these batterypacks for easy swapping? Engine/gearbox swap can be quite a major Jon on some cars.

But then again, on most EVs it is rare to have to swap the battery and it
Kielhalen to become only more rare.

Jeroen

[Abhisheknott]

Will we have batteries made by different manufacturers for the vehicles? Will the EV buyer risk a cheaper battery once the technology becomes prevalent like how its done now with mobiles and laptops.

[one-77]

One thing to note is that one cannot really know the battery health status of an EV easily, like say in an iPhone. You have to take the word of the manufacturer/ service centre regarding this. With no strict lemon rules/ recall policy/ consumer protection rules and transparency, we all know how manufacturers like VW/ Skoda reject warranty claims citing reasons like “bad fuel” without providing any objective evidence. So I guess it remains to be seen how these companies honour warranty claims on their EVs.

[Contrapunto]

I think government should evaluate and bring in some sensible regulations to help grow the industry. My recommendations would be to follow the best practices in EU and especially US where many first generation EVs are reaching 10 year ownership levels, and statistical data is more widely available. Some "quick wins" in sensible regulations would be

1. Follow US lead and make commitment of "Percentage battery life after xx years" mandatory. Battery/ cell replacement to bring the car up to this level should be a legal commitment.
2. Customers should legally have access to battery/ cell health data at no cost. This can either be in the connected app, or as a free service in the dealership
3. All EV manufacturers MUST provide battery replacement service at a cost that is publicly published- along with labour costs. The last thing we need is EV makers simply saying "oops" to any battery replacement after warranty expiry.

How will these help? I think these will help in the following ways
(a) Allay customer "hesitation" on making the large investments necessary to shift from ole' dependable ICE vehicles
(2) Improve resale values by providing peace of mind to the buyers of resale vehicles. Without these, there will be the occasional stories of customers buying pre-owned vehicles and left holding a lemon with exorbitant battery costs. Resale values will soon start plummeting and eventually impact sales of new EVs as well. Even Toyota-bashers know the excellent resale values is what keeps Innova and Fortuner sales afloat at high prices.
(3) Help keep insurance costs down. EVs and connected cars are bringing about accurate and "differentiated" insurance policies based on driving behavior and state-of-health of the car. This will provide much better insurance rates to owners who take care of their cars (a self-selected group in this forum :-) )

[Games Goblin]

Originally Posted by GTO

Would love to hear from anyone who has information on battery replacement costs in India. Am sure some Tata / MG EVs have had replacements under warranty. Guess a few Hyundai Kona owners had their batteries replaced too.

This article came to my mind

Tata Nexon EV Battery, Electric Motor Prices – Shared By Owner - Rushlane


As per the article, Nexon EV battery pack costs 7 lakhs and electric motor costs around 4.5 lakhs

[carthick1000]

As GTO mentioned, poorly engineered EV owners are going to face these troubles of traction battery swap more than others. There are few OEMs like Porsche, BMW and Lucid which allow only the problematic module (instead of the whole pack) to be swapped for a new one. Along with traction battery recycling, longevity is one of the major topics being focussed by most OEMs who has some well engineered EVs in their portfolio. It is for this reason (of longevity) BMW too is moving to cylindrical type cells like Tesla (Wrote about it here (BMW goes the Tesla way with cylindrical cells for its 'Neue Klasse')).

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Dealerships will charge easily between euro 75 - 120. Independent garages would be a little less.

I wonder to what degree they really design these batterypacks for easy swapping? Engine/gearbox swap can be quite a major Jon on some cars.

From Harshal.Bhosale's thread (Journeying into the electric future – My Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Review), the cost of model 3 battery swap mentioned in OP is inline. A long range traction battery (75kWh usable) costs about 15000USD (ie 200USD/kWh) and labour is ~800USD. Given the rate of 175USD/hour mentioned in that bill, we can calculate it takes about 4.5hours to swap the battery pack of a model 3.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by GTO

But not all batteries are created equal and I do expect some EV owners to be staring at big battery replacement bills a couple of years down the line. Reva owners being asked to shell out 2 lakhs for a battery are still fresh in the head

The real best case scenario for any EV owner is if the battery dies just before the end of the long warranty period. It's really the sone-pe-suhaaga situation, as they can get the new battery put in, get it documented, and immediately sell the vehicle, and get a really good price on account of the brand new battery. The nightmare scenario is if they haven't sold the car by the end of the warranty period, and if the battery conks out just after the warranty period. Then, they have to either shell out a huge amount of money for the new battery, or sell it at scrap value (which will be far worse for EVs than the scrap value of conventional cars, due to the greatly lesser amount of metal in it). As more and more EVs start nearing their junking age, there might even be additional charges for safe disposal/recycling of these batteries, at least abroad.

Originally Posted by On4Wheels

Now, it is just the beginning and manufactures are kind to the buyers in replacement of battery (possibly a gambit to achieve the technology maturity). I think, the cost of replacement would be transferred to customers once the volume increases. The terms and conditions of battery warranty need to be studied well. Also, I speculate that companies may discontinue the long warranty program for the battery in near future.

At present, even with the present eight year warranty, the stake of risk a buyer takes is much higher than that of the manufacturer.

The battery technology is rapidly evolving, and these long warranties are an incentive to encourage people to be early adopters, and not wait much longer, till even better battery technology becomes reality, but they are taking a hit everytime the battery dies within warranty. If they push too much risk onto the consumer, they risk losing him, but I think they'll wait till industry really moves away from ICE before they really start to tighten the screws, knowing that they've got their customers locked in, and without much options. This is much like how the airline industry went from competing with each other to reduce ticket prices, to increasing ticket fares all at the same time. They know the consumer will ultimately cough up the money and stay with them, when he/she has no other alternatives.

[On4Wheels]

Originally Posted by shyampsunder

Actually, it's the other way around.
As battery tech evolves, we should see more companies offer longer warranties

As a customer, I wish to have longer battery warranty. However, when I draw a parallelism with the other products that has almost reached the technology maturity, I am skeptical about this. For example, take the development of LCD/LED Television, the initial days when it was launched in the market, we were getting two to three years of warranty depending on the manufacturers and the most of the premium brands today offer only one year warranty with specific two year panel warranty (correct me, if I am wrong). Unless the regulators bring law to enforce the long term battery warranty, I think, EV batteries also may follow this trend. I learned that California is trying to bring the legislation to ensure BEVs maintain 80% of their certified test-cycle range for 15 years or 150,000 miles, while fuel-cell models maintain at least 90% output power after 4,000 hours of operation. Moreover, it is encouraging to see companies coming forward with 10 year battery warranty. At the same time, I find, the public statements by companies are nothing more than a pep talk as it does not give any legal assurance to the customers.

Originally Posted by supermax

If they push too much risk onto the consumer, they risk losing him, but I think they'll wait till industry really moves away from ICE before they really start to tighten the screws, knowing that they've got their customers locked in, and without much options. They know the consumer will ultimately cough up the money and stay with them, when he/she has no other alternatives.

I would like to draw another parallelism to mobile technology. Many of us might have owned a Nokia 1100 and no body can question its durability or battery life. Despite of huge technological advancement in last 20 years, there are very few mobiles available in market that can match Nokia 1100 in these aspects(). The new normal to the customer is just three to four years of product life even if you use it very carefully. Who is taking more risk here? In case of EVs, the risk is substantially higher. Though, the apple to orange comparison may not be correct, I expect, the EVs are also going to follow same trajectories in future. Also, if we have better Lithium-ion battery technology in future, the cost of the battery may not come down. Rather, I expect, we may get enhanced range.