[RahulNagaraj]

According to media reports, there is no way to repair or assess a slightly damaged battery pack of an electric vehicle after an accident. This has forced insurance companies to write off cars even with few miles.



Matthew Avery, Research Director at Thatcham Research - an automotive risk intelligence company, stated that if users are forced to throw away the battery after a minor accident, it doesn't make EVs sustainable. Companies like Tesla which use a structural battery pack have been described by experts as having "zero repairability", although it does help bring down the vehicle's production costs.

Reports state that although EVs make up only a fraction of vehicles on the road, the trend of low-mileage EVs being written off with minor damages is growing.

Also, while many carmakers have stated their battery packs are repairable, few are willing to share access to the battery data. This causes a problem for insurers, who are writing off the entire vehicle for having scratched battery packs where the cells inside are likely undamaged - since they do not have access to diagnostic data.

Source: Reuters

Link to Team-BHP news

[Games Goblin]

There's a YouTube channel named Wham Baam Teslacam - the channel focuses on uploading dashcam footage from teslas - mainly accidents. A lot of teslas feautured on that channel with impact damage were deemed to be write offs due to damage to battery pack. What surprised me was even some "not so bad looking" impact to the rear bumper caused the car to be written off due to battery pack damage.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to media reports, there is no way to repair or assess a slightly damaged battery pack of an electric vehicle after an accident.
...
if users are forced to throw away the battery after a minor accident, it doesn't make EVs sustainable. Companies like Tesla which use a structural battery pack have been described by experts as having "zero repairability", although it does help bring down the vehicle's production costs.

There seems to be more to these news reports than meets the eye. For one, Tesla batteries do seem to be repairable by third party service providers, as seen in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Q0nNkQTCo

Also, companies like Tesla and Apple are getting into a variety of legal tussles after the Right to Repair legislation was introduced, and scrapping an entire car just because a crash damaged a particular module, does not make sense. Going forward, the insurance companies would probably not accept such a financial burden either - if third parties can do such repairs, Tesla better do it too!

[Raghu M]

The battery packs are pretty sensitive that's understandable. But that poses another challenge, the insurance companies might start charging more and have an add on to the battery pack separately but at a bomb. This has not picked up yet in India but if these issues start picking up, owning and running an EV will not be low cost.

[SKC-auto]

We do have a Tesla owner here whose car is totalled because of minor dent to the battery pack, Tesla could fix the issue but they do not want to fix. IIRC, the car was shipped to Ukraine(before the war) and sold to a customer, I believe there are battery pack repair specialists in Europe who can deal with such dent.

The owner gets full insurance amount, I believe the insurer gets >50% of car value by auction it to someone in Ukraine.

[aashishnb]

Isn't this like an SOP followed by all car makers. Replace instead of Repair is the motto when you go the the ASC.

Apart from financial reasons, the ASCs must be doing it for peace of mind as repair involves external variables and if something went wrong there's lot of bad publicity.

[kvamshi04]

Originally Posted by Games Goblin

A lot of teslas feautured on that channel with impact damage were deemed to be write offs due to damage to battery pack. What surprised me was even some "not so bad looking" impact to the rear bumper caused the car to be written off due to battery pack damage.

Have been following this channel YouTube Channel and was always wondering, why are cars with "not so bad looking" accidents are written off, so easily. Thanks to you, I found the answer.

[ToThePoint]

This is basically turning out to be like opening a can of worms..

What happens to all those written off cars if battery chemistry/technology is proprietary?

Even if you could auction off, it's not like you can dispose off all cars being written off.

Do they become donor cars? How are the batteries handled - disposed? Bought by company and repaired? Is there any concept of refurbished batteries and would anyone take risk with that unless given multi year factory warranty?

[udzgodfather]

This is both insurance and customer nightmare, to have your vehicle scraped for a damaged battery is to saddening, moreover with depreciating insurances over the period of time, customer's will find themselves in sticky situations. The amount of pollution its gonna create would defeat the purpose of sustainable driving, if vehicles are gonna stay in scrapyard for being written off.

At the same time I think this is gonna push companies to develop removable battery packs like in old generation mobile phones.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by ToThePoint

What happens to all those written off cars if battery chemistry/technology is proprietary?

Even if you could auction off, it's not like you can dispose off all cars being written off.

Do they become donor cars? How are the batteries handled - disposed? Bought by company and repaired? Is there any concept of refurbished batteries and would anyone take risk with that unless given multi year factory warranty?

Typically the owners will be given an option of taking back the car after a fixed minimum price. If owner refuses to take it, then it is put on the block and adjusted to the owner. The owner can take it and DIY repair the car himself. As in the US, my cousin was paid money and he decided to repair the car. He took his own time to source the components and repaired his car himself. This for for a BMW petrol car.

If the owner manages to get the battery refurbished at the ASC level, then we can get it repaired else replace. Typically for NEXON the battery pack is priced at Rs.4.5 lakhs and the cost of the car is Rs.21 lakhs. So it will be feasible to replace components too.

As per the discussions I saw online on TATA motors #Evolvetoelectric YouTube channel, I heard the the battery will be maintained by the company with atleast 70% of energy by the end of 8 years warranty period. That is done at the dealer level by replacing the weak cells by new ones to maintain the levels. But that will need training of EV engineers which they are currently not yet trained. In a few incidents, they have replaced the entire battery pack as it is at nascent stage.

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

We do have a Tesla owner here whose car is totalled because of minor dent to the battery pack, Tesla could fix the issue but they do not want to fix.

The owner gets full insurance amount, I believe the insurer gets >50% of car value by auction it to someone in Ukraine.

In India the scrapped car is sold to a dealer who takes a decision to either sell it to a mechanic for repair or scrap it for parts. No we need to see what will the scrapped electricals fetch as the cars are new and all under warranty.

Originally Posted by aashishnb

Isn't this like an SOP followed by all car makers. Replace instead of Repair is the motto when you go the the ASC.

Apart from financial reasons, the ASCs must be doing it for peace of mind as repair involves external variables and if something went wrong there's lot of bad publicity.

True. With lots of electricals involved, it is always a hit or miss and no one wants to take a chance to repair that may eventually fail. So best option is REPLACE it.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

TTypically for NEXON the battery pack is priced at Rs.4.5 lakhs and the cost of the car is Rs.21 lakhs. So it will be feasible to replace components too. As per the discussions I saw online on TATA motors #Evolvetoelectric YouTube channel, I heard the the battery will be maintained by the company with atleast 70% of energy by the end of 8 years warranty period. That is done at the dealer level by replacing the weak cells by new ones to maintain the levels. But that will need training of EV engineers which they are currently not yet trained. In a few incidents, they have replaced the entire battery pack as it is at nascent stage.

The cost of a Nexon EV battery is around 8 lakhs. No Tata dealership is equipped to repair a battery. This is just a vague plan and is unlikely to be implemented. It will always be better to send the battery to some specialised factory and simply replace it with another refurbished one.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

The cost of a Nexon EV battery is around 8 lakhs. No Tata dealership is equipped to repair a battery. This is just a vague plan and is unlikely to be implemented. It will always be better to send the battery to some specialised factory and simply replace it with another refurbished one.

Agree with you, but it is the current issue. Remember TATA is 'assembling' battery packs at it's own factory in Pune. It will not be difficult to replicate the re-assembly at fixed centres. Maybe not at dealerships but they can have regional workshops with experts to do the jobs. Maybe they can have a center one each in North, South, East and west regions with senior engineers supervising it. Not a difficult task I say.

For now all seems rosy, but as the batteries, over a time start get degrading, they cannot simply replace battery packs as it will cause a fortune and will defy the cause of reducing pollution. Also they have promised an 8 years warranty. So they will have to work around and find a solution. The best seems battery refurbishing centres as I mentioned.

That depends upon the load and only time will define the path which the company takes. But for now we can only speculate.

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

The cost of a Nexon EV battery is around 8 lakhs. No Tata dealership is equipped to repair a battery. This is just a vague plan and is unlikely to be implemented. It will always be better to send the battery to some specialised factory and simply replace it with another refurbished one.

8L is the retail price for the battery at the dealers. Original cost may be just half of it, just like a complete engine assy or transmission assy.

[kvamshi04]

There are a number of companies working on
lithium-ion battery recycling including Li-Cycle
Redwood Materials and Spiers New Technologies, or SNT.

SNT focuses on refurbishing, repurposng and
recycling EV batteries to give them a second life. It already works with Volvo, Porsche, GM, Ford and others to take old batteries and make them new again.

The estimated reuse lifetime of an EV battery can
range anywhere from five to 30 years.

Courtesy:

https://youtu.be/HIurjZsWJoc

[supermax]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Going forward, the insurance companies would probably not accept such a financial burden either -

I guess it's only in India that the insurance companies take on the financial burden, or perhaps even in India, they might simply wash their hands off the matter. In Europe, full insurance for an EV is more than 3 times that of a regular ICE car, precisely for the additional risk with super expensive batteries which form an overwhelming percentage of the cost of the car.

Originally Posted by ToThePoint

This is basically turning out to be like opening a can of worms..

What happens to all those written off cars if battery chemistry/technology is proprietary?

Even if you could auction off, it's not like you can dispose off all cars being written off.

Do they become donor cars? How are the batteries handled - disposed? Bought by company and repaired? Is there any concept of refurbished batteries and would anyone take risk with that unless given multi year factory warranty?

I think the total value of parts stripped from a brand new Tesla would outstrip the value of a whole car! There would certainly be human labor costs for the stripping and sorting, but I foresee a future where there will be unofficial Tesla fixers, who'd be able to source virtually any part of a Tesla, from all the salvage titles they acquire. The parallel industry could be a win-win, allowing users to extend the lives of their Teslas, without having to junk them prematurely (or face the prospect of paying a huge repair fee to Tesla).