[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Geta

Please stick to this discussion:
How does that matter what price Tata or Citroen get their batteries for? If Tata can sell a 30.2 kWh battery powered 4m EV SUV for Rs 14.49 lakhs, then why is it considered "overpriced" if Citroen sells a similar sized Electric SUV with similar battery pack for Rs 11.49 lakhs?

Thanks

What do you mean by stick to this discussion. Why are you discussing about Nexon EV battery prices in a citroen eC3 discussion. We are not discussing about rockets here, the discussion is on battery electric vehicles and their comparisons.

I do not think Citroen is overpriced, I still prefer a Tiago as a consumer, my personal choice.

[Geta]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

What do you mean by stick to this discussion. Why are you discussing about Nexon EV battery prices in a citroen eC3 discussion. We are not discussing about rockets here, the discussion is on battery electric vehicles and their comparisons.

I do not think Citroen is overpriced, I still prefer a Tiago as a consumer, my personal choice.

We always compare the products available in the market for the buyers. We don't compare the prices the manufacturers pay for it. It is their headache.

Tiago EV might be your personal choice, but you brought yourself into a discussion which was about if Citroen eC3 is overpriced compared to its direct competition. If you feel eC3 is not overpriced, there ends the discussion.

[SRT_Dwarka]

Originally Posted by Geta

Please stick to this discussion:
How does that matter what price Tata or Citroen get their batteries for? If Tata can sell a 30.2 kWh battery powered 4m EV SUV for Rs 14.49 lakhs, then why is it considered "overpriced" if Citroen sells a similar sized Electric SUV with similar battery pack for Rs 11.49 lakhs?

Thanks

I think it is a myopic view to compare with one particular vehicle when discussing the value proposition here, the discussion should ideally be "Is the C3 priced to be a sensible value proposition?" And that is where you bring in different perspectives, how is it priced vis-a-vis it's Petrol counterpart, how is it priced vis-a-vis other options in the market, and how is it priced vis a vis what Citroen could have achieved, especially considering the nascent EV market in India, where it is the duty of each participant to expand the market.

And IMHO, even if one were to consider from only the perspective of competition vis a vis nexon EV prime: higher powered motor (130 hp versus 57) liquid cooled and better protected battery pack ( IP 67 versus no rating )with 1kwh higher capacity, larger rims, wider tyres, hill ascent and descent assist, better NCAP crash test rating, better warranties overall, true SUV ground clearance (205 mm versus sedan like 170 mm), projector headlamps with DRLs, wheel arch cladding, fully automatic climate control, remote central lock and cruise control, and the entire list of features that goes on, definitely are worth more than 4 lakhs in my book. Also, considering that Citroen itself says that the C3 is a hatchback, I'd still compare with the hatchback Tiago and not a pseudo SUV. If you do think that the circa 3 lakh price premium is justified for the slightly larger size, good for you, but I doubt most people think that way

P.S. If people all thought in price to size ratio terms I doubt anything beats bullock carts. Just Kidding ��

[antonylejos]

Each manufacuturer sticking to their own USP is better for us, as consumer, and for manufacturer too.

I am using a Citreon C3 petrol for last 2 months, driven 8500 km. I brought it just for suspension. Lack of Autodimming IRVM or automatic headlamp is surely not at all important for me. Thats why I went for this. But its suspension never fails to impress me, in each and every drive. The feeling of freshness I feel after long drives Bangalore to Kochi can beat some of the cars in segments above. Another USP is surely its ability to mask speed. Going at triple digit speeds just feels stable and steady.

I said this, go for eC3, not for price, but for its suspension which is a class apart. Having said this I am surely not thinking this is overpriced. This is not a car which can be compared with Tiago or i10 or swift (except for price).

[antz.bin]

Some facts:

Ex Showroom Price Differential between Petrol Manual and 315/320km ARAI range EVs for the same/similar trim level of the same car.

C3 Live and eC3 Live : Rs.5.5 lakh (EV has less power)
Tiago XT and Tiago.EV XT LR : Rs.2.5 lakh (EV has more features)
Tigor XZ and Tigor EV XT: Rs.5.8 lakh (Both are evenly matched)
Nexon XM and Nexon EV Prime XM : Rs.5.7 lakh (EV has more features and power)


We can see that the Tiago is an aberration. It also shows how much margins Tata is making when it sells the Nexon and Tigor EVs for such high prices.


We can also see using this comparison that the eC3 is decently priced when compared to the competition but it had to make a lot of compromises that the competition did not make.


Is it saleable? Yes.
Is it decent pricing? Yes. But not excellent.
Is it aspirational? Could have been better at this one.

[guptad42]

We can rationalize all we want, but it is now likely that Citroen's pricing folly will make this a very difficult birth for the eC3.

I spoke with some Citroen sales folks, and they sounded demoralised. To my surprise, they did not even attempt to defend the price when I asked if it is just me who finds the price high. They said no, everyone is surprised by the high pricing. They are already seeing cancellations come in.

At this rate, Citroen risks losing momentum to add dealerships and sales staff to grow in India. If the cancellation comment is true, and I have no reason to doubt their own sales folk, then eC3 refunds may also create a cashflow problem for the dealers. Citroen keeps talking up fleet sales, but they have also lost the Uber order to Tata Motors - the largest EV fleet order in India so far.

[aim120]

eC3 electric motor may be low on kw or power but it does not mean the size of the motor and bill of material is lower. Since its torque is lot more then Tiago/Tigor motor.

The motor controller has the ability to limit the power and can also alter and limit the throttle input to the throttle output ratio. It can also lower the timing to reduce heat of the motor and top speed.

So I doubt Citroen has made any saving in the motor cost. It may have put a lower Amp rated motor controller to keep power requirements in line with the passive cooled battery.

[sagsaw]

Looking at completely different strategy adopted by Citroen for ICE or EV in any aspect be it pricing or features, I feel its Citroen who may still have the last laugh.

[Asoon]

Who is the target segment ?

Segment which is looking for entry level EV will have the same mind set as alto/ wagon R buyers, hence will go for Tiago for better TATA network, proven track record and is a safe bet.

No for the ones who are open to experimentation and have more disposable income, there are better products in 4-5L range - Nexon & XUV400

Buyers who are willing to take risk with new brand at 12L and feel 14-16L is expensive is hardly a segment. C3EV does not offer any significant upgrade over or peace of mind current competition, it is dead at launch

Citroen should have launched this at 7.5L to 8L, build trust / brand and then venture into other categories. Its either USPs or price advantage, without these 2 even Suzuki. Hyundai were not able to save SX4/ Grand Vitata (old)/ Ignis/ Santo (new)/ EON

[AbhiJ]

Originally Posted by antonylejos

But its suspension never fails to impress me , in each and every drive.
The feeling of freshness I feel after long drives Bangalore to Kochi can beat some of the cars in segments above..

The petrol C3 rides way better than the eC3.

I have test driven both and found the eC3 way more bumpy.

[Comrade]

Has Citroen priced the car comparable to industry differential between petrol & EV (nexon, tigor, xuv300)? Yes

Should Citroen be more aggressive with price (similar to tiago.ev)? Definitely yes in my opinion.

Citroen has already stripped the car of comfort features. So its target audience is people looking for VFM cars vs competition. Unless tata launches punch ev, which will give buyers chance to compare two direct competitors, comparison with tiago.ev is not avoidable.

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Some facts:

Ex Showroom Price Differential between Petrol Manual and 315/320km ARAI range EVs for the same/similar trim level of the same car.

C3 Live and eC3 Live : Rs.5.5 lakh (EV has less power)
Tiago XT and Tiago.EV XT LR : Rs.2.5 lakh (EV has more features)
Tigor XZ and Tigor EV XT: Rs.5.8 lakh (Both are evenly matched)
Nexon XM and Nexon EV Prime XM : Rs.5.7 lakh (EV has more features and power)

Doesn't this comparison show that if you want a large price premium over the petrol version, you need to load the EV up with features and electric performance. Citroen chose to do neither.

Instead, Citroen has made a barebones EV with missing features and lower power rating. A basic EV - so, everyone rightly expected VFM pricing. Citroen India brand head went on every youtube channel to say they will price it aggressively. And they did not.

If Citroen wanted premium pricing, they could have given the eC3 premium feel with the bells and whistles. Nobody stopped them from doing it.

As for people claiming it should not be compared to tiago, well it was Citroen themselves that created the comparison by pricing petrol C3 close to tiago petrol models. People always tend to compare cars by price bracket. So, most people expected electric C3 to be close to tiago ev, plus some extra for larger battery. That's it.

[SRT_Dwarka]

Originally Posted by aim120

eC3 electric motor may be low on kw or power but it does not mean the size of the motor and bill of material is lower. Since its torque is lot more then Tiago/Tigor motor.

The motor controller has the ability to limit the power and can also alter and limit the throttle input to the throttle output ratio. It can also lower the timing to reduce heat of the motor and top speed.

So I doubt Citroen has made any saving in the motor cost. It may have put a lower Amp rated motor controller to keep power requirements in line with the passive cooled battery.

Correction: Torque (143 NM) is more than the Tiago EV (113 NM) not way more and less than the Tigor EV (170 NM). Plus, when you look at the Torque to weight ratios, the whole equation changes dramatically.

Now Top Speed is determined by the current drawn, that is true, and hence, if the controller is rated for lower current, and bearings etc are rated for lower RPMs, I'd think it'd cost lower, proportionally to manufacture those.

I'm pretty sure Citroen is saving quite some money there.

Also not a huge fan of but it's an SUV, it should cost more argument.

[sagsaw]

Originally Posted by Asoon

Who is the target segment ?

Citroen should have launched this at 7.5L to 8L, build trust / brand and then venture into other categories. Its either USPs or price advantage, without these 2 even Suzuki. Hyundai were not able to save SX4/ Grand Vitata (old)/ Ignis/ Santo (new)/ EON

Why are people comparing eC3 to Tiago?

Completely different in size and space.

[da3mn]

Even the 30.2 kWh battery pack is being sourced from the Chinese firm Svolt, Citroen is looking to localize it in the longer run.

I don't exactly see what the unique selling proposition of the eC3 is when compared to the Nexon EV.

They should have offered this at less than 8L build the network of the ASS, build trust and increase the brand visibility.