[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by rsidd

The webpage has instructions but it's telegram-only so, for now, I have not joined.

There are whatsApp groups as well. You will be provided invites for both telegram and whatsapp after you register.

[Nanolover]

Bittersweet/Average ownership experience -21,000 kms in 14 months – Tigor EV & Good Ownership Experience- 3500 kms in 3 months – Tiago EV MR

This is more of a comparison of the cars and the dealer experience also ( brought from different dealers)

Let me start with the Tigor EV

Purchase date : around end August 2022
Dealer : Trivandrum Motors

Purchase Experience :

Abysmal and recommend that you AVOID this dealer. All sorts of skullduggery and never showed the car in the yard stating all sorts of excuses and finally gave me a car that I believe was a showroom display car. (I was given a 3 month old car). There are much better dealers now out there Derik, Luxon ( Nippon Toyota group) and better to give your business to them.


List of stuff YET to be provided by dealer :

1.Second keyless remote ( all gyaan about corona shortage when other cars in the yard had 2 remotes. I suspect they lost one). Anyways cant be bothered to fight with them anymore.

2.The service records are in the name of a government institution WHICH HAS NOT BEEN UPDATE IRRESPECTIVE OF CALLS/ WRITTEN MAIL etc. Confirms the suspicion that I was pawned a pre-allotted car

Unsolved issues ( by the dealer)

1.The car has rattles from the front two door sash area window frames. Dealer denied to fix this issue , saying its time consuming, door cards need to be taken off etc. I thought #$%^ you man ! and I have decided to live with it, a sort of reminder to the pitfalls.

2.Keyless entry request sensor does not work , hence have to use the remote to lock/unlock. Works fine, per the dealer apparently. Again, I can’t be bothered to fight with these jokers.

Updates & Niggles over the course of ownership:

Let me start off by saying that for any new Tata product, the initial set of customers are beta testers and basis our troubles/horror stories, the company rolls out updates and retrofits them on their customer cars. The list is below:

1. The radiator fan used to run CONTINUSOLY for the entire length of time that the car was charged ! up to 8 hours. Had to search forums and push dealer to get the pigtail update done( who kept on stating there is no updates showing for this VIN number)

2. THE BIG ONE – Car had the horrible HV critical alert and shut down twice in the middle of commute. Dealer returned it first time stating all is fine and it broke down within 10 kms. This time escalated to Tata higher ups who promptly swung into action and towed the car away. It sat with the dealer for 3 weeks ( no replacement car as apparently they don’t have one- quote by Trivandrum Motors) and the entire battery pack was replaced. More of it here--https://www.team-bhp.com/news/new-tigor-ev-breaks-down-twice-3-days-battery-fails-within-5-months. This had happened within 4 months ( Jan 2023) and luckily, the car has been running trouble free since then over 15,000 kms. But there will always be this question mark at the back of your head…when next will it stop?

3.Charging gun replaced

4.Last month, the range dropped all of a sudden from 76 to 17 %. My car got the adjustable regen update and apparently post that it has to be taken down to 10 % once and then charged , to clear any errors ( thanks to bhpian Torquecurve for this tip, note: no word about this from dealer)

Range :

180 kms is achievable with full ac and mixed city/ highway driving ( 100 -10% charge). Depending on driving style and ac usage range can fluctuate between 150 -180 kms.

Postives:

1.Saves you a tonne of money if you have daily running of 50 + kms
2.Very easy and relaxing to drive in city and highway
3.Adequately powered
4.More spacious at the back than the Tiago ( this is the main USP vis a vis Tiago)
5.Solid build and safety

Negatives

1.Poor reliability
2.Hopeless dealer experience
3.Shallow trunk and oddly positioned trunk latch means you bang your head EVERYTIME
4.Non working keyless entry

I will be trying Luxon Tata next and will keep you updated on the service experience there.

Considering all the above, as learnings, I again took the plunge and my brother brought a Tiago ev MR ( he has solar in his house and electricity is free for him). This time with my hard earned lessons, we ignored Trivandrum Motors and went to the other dealer – Derik Tata.

They had a tropical mist MR in transit and were more than kind to show it to us once it reached the yard. We checked the car and gave it the all clear and it was delivered fresh to us with less than 8 kms on the clock ! ( car was less than 1 month old per VIN). The tiago is tight as a drum compared to the rattly Tigor I have. In fact the build is too tight , that you have to slam the dicky to close or open one door and then close the dicky.

Range :

130 kms in city driving with AC on ( this being MR)

Positives

1.Reliability to date ( no issues by far)
2.Adequately powered ( 60 bhp MR is more than adequate for most uses)
3.Ride is much better than Tigor
4.Powerful AC ( compared to the Tigor)
5.Fun to drive

Negatives

1.No spare tire
2.Cramped rear
3.Top speed is realistically only 110 for MR ( as compared to 120 easily which I achieve in my Tigor)
4.Motor is noisier compared to Tigor

What I learned:

1.Electric is the future of motoring ( for me at least)
2.Visit multiple dealers at purchase time.
3.Be prepared to have some niggles ( at least initially and this is the one thing that scares most owners off)

Conclusion:

1.Now that I have understood the EV and its plus/ negatives, I will upgrade ( once budget permits) to the MG ZS EV.
2. I am sorry , no Tata for me again. Thank you for introducing me to the world of EVs, but no thanks to all the other parts of it.

[abacusv]

Range accuracy of Tiago EVs

Here is a situation I had yesterday, people who have other EVs specifically E20 can comprehend more but please let me know how many feel the same..

Tiago EV was at 22% 54KM range while E2O was at 80% 58 Km range. I was extremely confident to take my E2O for 20km distance with AC on but had less confidence to take Tiago at 22% even without AC, though the range is good for the distance.
I know its psychological, but there is a reason. I feel Tata EVs range estimation is 50% accurate compared to E2O at almost 90+% accuracy. For on paper range 315km(LR models), I have never got more than 200km range, and end up charging after driving about 150-170km max. Which is actually charging always after using 50% of range documented.

I also see the latest post is about 180km for tigor not sure what is the max range documented. Is it me or many face it too?

I'm using EVs from a decade now, so the driving style and other things are into consideration here.

[abacusv]

Originally Posted by dr.dre

Any suggestions on half decent Tata service centre in Bangalore is appreciated, my expectations is not much, for them to not break anything that is not broken

I had similar experience with Key motors mysore road, and for EV I went with KHT motors domlur and had even more disappointment than key motors. So its the pedigree of Tata I guess. Cant expect any better with any centres at least not in Bangalore.

If you stay close by then, build a good relation with SA and request for same SA for every visit and try to get your work done with better satisfaction.

[mally2]

Originally Posted by abacusv

Range accuracy of Tiago EVs

I know its psychological, but there is a reason. I feel Tata EVs range estimation is 50% accurate compared to E2O at almost 90+% accuracy. For on paper range 315km(LR models), I have never got more than 200km range, and end up charging after driving about 150-170km max. Which is actually charging always after using 50% of range documented.

I also see the latest post is about 180km for tigor not sure what is the max range documented. Is it me or many face it too?

I'm using EVs from a decade now, so the driving style and other things are into consideration here.

Its really awesome you have such a long period of EV usage experience, clearly I am novice here. but my 2 cents, TATA EV range estimation is based on the last drive cycle, and for me, its usually 100-20% where I have driven close to 150-160km(with AC) next is almost always followed by a full charge, and the range DTE is pretty accurate around 200AC and 230Non AC

in your example 22% would have easily gone for 50+ kms as the range estimate below 50% SOC is pretty accurate as the BMS would have understood your drive pattern for the last 50% SoC.

just to make it easier keep these figures in mind

100whkm . 240km range
110whkm . 220km range
120whkm . 200km range
130whkm . 180km range

Happy Eving!~!

[abacusv]

Originally Posted by mally2

in your example 22% would have easily gone for 50+ kms as the range estimate below 50% SOC is pretty accurate as the BMS would have understood your drive pattern for the last 50% SoC.

Happy Eving!~!

It depends yes agreed but is the calculation realistic or an eye wash? 315 Range car makes us charge at every 150-170Km is a 50% accurate isnt it?
Here is another example.

73% with 199km range with 42km driven since charge. This is still 30km less for the range.. Agree again on drive style but from here it dropped to 100km range for 51km distance with percentage dropping at 48%. And AEC running 117 when its at 48%.
.

On the other hand, E20 Starts the DTE to what is claimed. I have 100km range. After every 100% charge the DTE always shows 100km and varies according to the driving style. And no matter how harsh you use, the drop is max 15%, now that the car is 10 years old the efficiency has dropped to 70% and I get same ratio experience of drive.

So Tata has really eye washed us and the calculations are extremely un predictable. The only solace is, the range is long so you can plan better but a 60-50% accurate estimate is really a poor reality vs document from the manufacturer

[Nanolover]

Easiest way is approx 1.8 to 2 kms per 1% charge. 120 kwh consumption means 8 kms per kwh and you can cover 22*8 =176 kms till 10% charge ( tigor battery size is 26 kwh, i kept 22 kwh for calculation ignoring 10% battery size). I never calculate below 10% as AC is cut off, never can drive without ac

[mally2]

Originally Posted by abacusv

It depends yes agreed but is the calculation realistic or an eye wash? 315 Range car makes us charge at every 150-170Km is a 50% accurate isnt it?
Here is another example.

73% with 199km range with 42km driven since charge. This is still 30km less for the range.. Agree again on drive style but from here it dropped to 100km range for 51km distance with percentage dropping at 48%. And AEC running 117 when its at 48%.
.

On the other hand, E20 Starts the DTE to what is claimed. I have 100km range. After every 100% charge the DTE always shows 100km and varies according to the driving style. And no matter how harsh you use, the drop is max 15%, now that the car is 10 years old the efficiency has dropped to 70% and I get same ratio experience of drive.

So Tata has really eye washed us and the calculations are extremely un predictable. The only solace is, the range is long so you can plan better but a 60-50% accurate estimate is really a poor reality vs document from the manufacturer

Oh the 315 is just a ARAI figure, the sooner you forget the better, this applies to all new age EVs, real range us 70% of claimed range, be it the Tata's MG's or any latest 2022 and beyond EVs.

If your Tiago is showing 315 at the start of every charge cycle there is something wrong as it should not be the case

[abacusv]

Originally Posted by mally2

Oh the 315 is just a ARAI figure, the sooner you forget the better, this applies to all new age EVs, real range us 70% of claimed range, be it the Tata's MG's or any latest 2022 and beyond EVs.

If your Tiago is showing 315 at the start of every charge cycle there is something wrong as it should not be the case

Its sad that we have to accept this. Well lets agree to 70% of ARAI as the reality. But do they gaurantee 70% across. How is it fair 70% of the DTE which is actually 70% of ARAI. This boils down to 50%.
Let me explain further
70% of 315 is ~ 220. now at least i should get 220km irrespective of my driving style. cos I'm already penalised 30% for it. I can never drive to 220km..


42Km it has consumed 27% but DTE is promising, 199km however, for next 26% the dte dropped to 100km after driving 51km. This again the AEC was 117wh/km. So essentially you get roughly 170-180km reliable range. Which I think is too much deviation from what is on paper.

The question is how many here would have bought this if we knew this was the reality. WOuld you buy if the range was less than 200km for 315 claimed?

[mally2]

Originally Posted by abacusv

Its sad that we have to accept this. Well lets agree to 70% of ARAI as the reality. But do they gaurantee 70% across. How is it fair 70% of the DTE which is actually 70% of ARAI. This boils down to 50%.
Let me explain further
70% of 315 is ~ 220. now at least i should get 220km irrespective of my driving style. cos I'm already penalised 30% for it. I can never drive to 220km..

42Km it has consumed 27% but DTE is promising, 199km however, for next 26% the dte dropped to 100km after driving 51km. This again the AEC was 117wh/km. So essentially you get roughly 170-180km reliable range. Which I think is too much deviation from what is on paper.

The question is how many here would have bought this if we knew this was the reality. WOuld you buy if the range was less than 200km for 315 claimed?

I understand your feelings, even i expected 250+ real range but thats impossible unless one keeps the AEC under 100whkm, crazy amount of hyper milling required,

coming to your case, the AEC is 137 not 117 as you stated. 137AEC means 24kw/137 = range of 175km for 100%, you have 73% BATTERY left meaning another 127km range left, the next drive cycle when you charge to a 100% will show 175-180 km with AC

hope I am making some sense

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by abacusv

Its sad that we have to accept this. Well lets agree to 70% of ARAI as the reality. But do they gaurantee 70% across. How is it fair 70% of the DTE which is actually 70% of ARAI. This boils down to 50%.

ARAI range is a useless unattainable number, even SAs say that upfront to set expectation, as they have dealt with lot of complaints. If you talk to EV owners or read ownership reviews, they will say the same.

It is unfortunate if were not aware of this when you bought, but now you have to forget that number to avoid frustration. For all practical purposes consider 70% of ARAI as the max range.

Now, a combination of factors can reduce the range further:

1. In cities, bumper to bumper traffic is a killer, there is nothing that can be done for this. If possible try to take a longer/different route, where the traffic flow is better. Fully stopping at signal and moving otherwise is also good.
2. In highways, higher speeds are the killer. If you keep ~60km, you should get the 70% of ARAI, even with ~80km you should get 55 to 60%.
3. Power consumed by AC is very dependent on the set temperature and outside temperature, that is why you will have some people claiming it doesn't use much and others say it consumes too much. If it uses more power, then it can reduce the range.
4. Last but not the least, driving style. Anticipatory driving can make a big difference. All EV drivers will get better as they drive more, of course some will master it very well and these are the ones getting much more than 70% of ARAI. But most of us should be able to get close to the 70% (excluding bumper to bumper and high speeds).

[abacusv]

Originally Posted by wocanak

ARAI range is a useless unattainable number, even SAs say that upfront to set expectation, as they have dealt with lot of complaints. If you talk to EV owners or read ownership reviews, they will say the same.

It is unfortunate if were not aware of this when you bought, but now you have to forget that number to avoid frustration. For all practical purposes consider 70% of ARAI as the max range.

Now, a combination of factors can reduce the range further:

1. In cities, bumper to bumper traffic is a killer, there is nothing that can be done for this. If possible try to take a longer/different route, where the traffic flow is better. Fully stopping at signal and moving otherwise is also good.
2. In highways, higher speeds are the killer. If you keep ~60km, you should get the 70% of ARAI, even with ~80km you should get 55 to 60%.
3. Power consumed by AC is very dependent on the set temperature and outside temperature, that is why you will have some people claiming it doesn't use much and others say it consumes too much. If it uses more power, then it can reduce the range.
4. Last but not the least, driving style. Anticipatory driving can make a big difference. All EV drivers will get better as they drive more, of course some will master it very well and these are the ones getting much more than 70% of ARAI. But most of us should be able to get close to the 70% (excluding bumper to bumper and high speeds).

I guess you missed the point, I'm fine with 70% of ARAI but it should be 70% of ARAI irrespective of the driving style. The reality is you are penalised further down to 50% based on your driving style.

Please note, I am using EV since 2013, e20. Their range calculations is more honest than the current EVs. It at least gives a quick and truthful range for us to plan.

Originally Posted by mally2

I understand your feelings, even i expected 250+ real range but thats impossible unless one keeps the AEC under 100whkm, crazy amount of hyper milling required,

coming to your case, the AEC is 137 not 117 as you stated. 137AEC means 24kw/137 = range of 175km for 100%, you have 73% BATTERY left meaning another 127km range left, the next drive cycle when you charge to a 100% will show 175-180 km with AC

hope I am making some sense

Right, 117 was not at 73% but when it was at 47%(down 26%).
Good math but wont tally well all the time and its crazy to keep calculating.
You can see from the attached.
137AEC to 175km at 100% then how is it 199 km at 73%? Again a bunch of useless calculations.. End of the day you dont have a honest range.

[coldice4u]

Originally Posted by Nanolover

Easiest way is approx 1.8 to 2 kms per 1% charge. 120 kwh consumption means 8 kms per kwh and you can cover 22*8 =176 kms till 10% charge ( tigor battery size is 26 kwh, i kept 22 kwh for calculation ignoring 10% battery size). I never calculate below 10% as AC is cut off, never can drive without ac

After approx 11k kms on the Tiago, i can confirm that this is the best way to keep track of the range. I've observed that during summers with AC usage, it can be safely assumed that the minimum rang will be 1.8x the charge. For winters witnout AC(no heating) range will be easily 2.2x the remaining charge.

Here in NCR where temperature have dropped to low teens I've observed that the Tiago does not have very good heating.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by coldice4u

Here in NCR where temperature have dropped to low teens I've observed that the Tiago does not have very good heating.

Good observation. It must be having a heating coil which will again drink battery power like anything. India being a tropical and mostly hot country they must have skimped on the heating coil size and capacity.

This begs another question. Does normal ICE cars have any heating coil or the AC simply absorbs the engine heat when required ?

[mally2]

Originally Posted by abacusv

I guess you missed the point, I'm fine with 70% of ARAI but it should be 70% of ARAI irrespective of the driving style. The reality is you are penalised further down to 50% based on your driving style.

Please note, I am using EV since 2013, e20. Their range calculations is more honest than the current EVs. It at least gives a quick and truthful range for us to plan.



Right, 117 was not at 73% but when it was at 47%(down 26%).
Good math but wont tally well all the time and its crazy to keep calculating.
You can see from the attached.
137AEC to 175km at 100% then how is it 199 km at 73%? Again a bunch of useless calculations.. End of the day you dont have a honest range.

I guess it’s bottles down to what was your expectations of the purchase . The Tiago is out for a while and every review including TBHP says approximate to 180-200 kms of range which is the real number as others too have pointed out 1.8 to 2km per percent. I’m saying this from 14k kms of Tiago ev experience. Not sure what your ODO count is. But the BMS will start showing realistic range figures as it learns your driving patterns. Mine consistently shows 200 with AC and that’s what I get with AC.