[prajwalkashyap]

Hybrid cars make more sense for passenger car taxis (Uber, OLA, etc) whose domain is more in city limits. For most other situations, mild hybrids are past their prime.

Had these been introduced 10-15 years ago in India, their sales would've gone through the roof. But since the advent of EV's, replacing an existing pure petrol/diesel passenger car to a hybrid makes very little sense. Might as well jump to an EV. Granted that the Toyota hybrid is phenomenally durable, reliable and efficient, nevertheless, maintenance costs are similar to that of fossil fuels engines.

These engines are a lot more efficient in city driving than on highways. I average about 4.5L/100kms all day every day (at times, I even achieve 3.4L/100kms!) here in Melbourne.

[pram_ind]

Originally Posted by prajwalkashyap

Had these been introduced 10-15 years ago in India, their sales would've gone through the roof.

If it was launched 10-15 yrs back, the cost of the car would have been in high end German cars category. Hybrids are coming in now due to low battery, motor cost and stricter pollution rules. We will see Hybrid tech coming in B,C class category for the next 10 years after which EV and Fuel cell will rule.

[volkman10]

Strong Hybrids coming in mass market segments:

Maruti Swift, Dzire to get hybrid tech in 2024. Coming with New engines mated to THS.

They could get an ARAI-rated mileage of 35-40kp


Link (Next-gen Suzuki Swift spied testing for the first time)

[sharathkamath04]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Strong Hybrids coming in mass market segments:

Maruti Swift, Dzire to get hybrid tech in 2024. Coming with New engines mated to THS.

They could get an ARAI-rated mileage of 35-40kp


Link (Next-gen Suzuki Swift spied testing for the first time)

from the article:: " At present, the price difference, variant for variant, between mild- and strong-hybrid variants of the Grand Vitara is Rs 2.6 lakh, and we hear Maruti is targeting to drop that gap to around Rs 1 lakh-1.5 lakh by the time the new Swift and Dzire hybrids are launched in 2024."

With 1-1.5lk higher price it stands almost close to EVs(with running cost double of an EV). 2024-25 we will have 10ev from Tata and at least 4 from MnM (hope). Also many more from other OEMs. How relevant will these strong hybrid cars from the biggest OEM be?

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by sharathkamath04

---
With 1-1.5lk higher price it stands almost close to EVs(with running cost double of an EV). 2024-25 we will have 10ev from Tata and at least 4 from MnM (hope). Also many more from other OEMs. How relevant will these strong hybrid cars from the biggest OEM be?

Toyota-Suzuki's EV too will be launched around late 2024/25.

Hybrids will continue be offered, and customers will get a choice of picking the technology of his choice. Not all will jump into the EV bandwagon.

[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Swift, Dzire to get hybrid tech in 2024. Coming with New engines mated to THS.

Now that would be a car I could book without a test drive for sure.

[Turbosailor]

Some good news from Around the world on Hybrid ICE technology and alternate fuel technology. Soon there will be some alternative or substitute for EV.


https://www.topspeed.com/toyotas-hyd...-evs-obsolete/


https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/cle...ience/8555877/

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Turbosailor

Some good news from Around the world on Hybrid ICE technology and alternate fuel technology. Soon there will be some alternative or substitute for EV.

I don't understand this fantasy for alternate fuel, it's clearly evident and any decent engineer who has read or researched about EV tech and "alternative fuel tech" will tell that there is no alternative to EV tech, atleast for cars, buses and trucks(except may be few niche use cases).

To the argument many seem to have "we should not put all our eggs in the same basket", there are already different baskets, these are LFP, NCA, NCM chemistries and many more in the future.

If we like it or not, Battery+electric motor is the only future for road transport, battery chemistries & motor types may vary.

Few manufacturers like to peddle the alternate fuel idea to delay EVs so that they can sell more Hybrids.

I do not know about this Israel breakthrough, looks like they are talking about this breakthrough for last 4 years, it's like those battery breakthroughs which we see every week, will take it with a pinch of salt.

[epiccross]

Hydrogen fuel is wildly impractical and inferior to EVs. Solve the infra issue + charge time issue with lowering battery degradation and improving reliability, I think EVs can effectively replace ICE. There are range issues with respect to lower temperatures, but I think those are solvable. Better work on perfecting EVs, making them affordable and improving infra rather than spending time and effort on alternatives like Hydrogen.

Hybrids are alright though, as a middle ground before ICEs being phased. I would much rather prefer diesels and then slowly phasing out ICEs altogether and adopting EVs.

[Turbosailor]

(I don't understand this fantasy for alternate fuel )

SKC-auto,

I can't totally agree with your perspective, how are they planning to source raw materials required for batteries. Are there any alternatives for Nickel, Lithium etc ? Solid state batteries also require these elements. And environmental impact of large scale industrial mining. How we are planning to handle environmental impacts due to mining. How sustainable and cost effective will these EV battery technologies remain due to foreseen raw material shortages? A report published last year by the Geological Survey of Finland suggested that with a worldwide fleet of 1.4 billion vehicles, would require 48.2% of global nickel reserves and 43.8% of global lithium reserves, but that there are not enough cobalt reserves to meet this requirement. As the current market for EVs is small, there are not enough materials that can be refined through recycling to help alleviate the pressure on reserves. What's wrong with Toyota's vision ? At least they are doing R&D instead of going all guns blazing towards a 100% EV fleet. Inventions / breakthroughs happen only when we think out of the box. When Nikola Tesla thought out of box we got a new technology "Alternating current" or or we would have only Thomas Edison's DC.

[lsjey]

Hybrids offer the following advantages IMO:

1. More green than pure ICE cars. Lesser pollution.
2. More mileage than even diesels.
3. No range anxiety. Offers more range than comparable ICE vehicles.
4. Maintenance costs will be similar to that of Petrol vehicles.
5. Comparable or better performance than comparable ICE cars.

Some of the cons are:

1. Increased costs and complexity.
2. Decreased boot space and spare wheels are not usually full size.

I feel that in this segment if prices fall, manufacturers who do not have experience developing hybrids will suffer. Creating EVs seems to be more easy but developing hybrids need more work and R&D. Because of the BS 6 norms nowadays even SUVs don’t come equipped with diesel engines. This segment will be one that will get hit if Hybrids become more affordable. The Hycross VX model is an effort I feel by Toyota to lure the taxi cab operators.

Currently, If running of the car is more in City and also highway, it is better to buy a Hybrid than a diesel.

Regards,
Lsjey

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Turbosailor

SKC-auto,

I can't totally agree with your perspective,

Will you pay 40 to 80₹/km for h2 ice car, rather than 1₹/km for EV and 8₹/km for petrol, that is the whole issue with H2.

Here is my perspective why H2 ICE does not work.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...ml#post5467339 (Toyota working on the Corolla Cross H2 hydrogen-based ICE Roadcar)

Regarding Battery materials, I agree there will be slightly higher mining compared to now, but we are not burning them in the car, today 92% material can be recovered from older batteries. Cobalt is not even required for many cars using LFP batteries, and we may also see Sodium batteries in near future.

I am not against inventions, and there is no invention in h2 ice, h2 is made for decades, ice engine is known for many decades. Can the planet wait for 20 years for Toyota, meanwhile EV tech will be far better if all our energies are concentrated on EVs.

Consider generating renewable power by 3-9x times compared to EV. Instead of 300GW solar generation target by 2030, we have to generate 900-2700GW solar power.

[shortbread]

Hybrids are only a stop gap measure before the inevitable rise of EVs.

[idlethread]

Originally Posted by car-dent

I highly disagree on this point. I feel, as soon as EVs become mainstream and govt starts losing revenue on fossil fuels, the electricity for charging will be priced differently and be heavily taxed.

I think this won't happen for a simple reason - all cars can be charged easily on a 16A 3 pin socket that is available everywhere.

Yes, it takes longer, but with the bigger batteries coming, you don't need to charge fully everyday.

Infact, as a recent owner of an EV, I'm starting to notice things that I hadn't before. Restaurants, Malls, Event places are all fitting chargers because it is a cheap investment to attract customers. I fully expect that in a year or two the charging options will overtake the petrol pumps because they don't need special permits, large spaces and paperwork.

[vtires2018]

Respectfully, this needs to be moved to a separate topic- "Hybrid vehicles or even PHEV"

Cost, Benefits, and Technology is almost mature for EV's as seen from the demand, and utilization in China, Europe, and to smaller extent in USA.
Electric Buses are used in major cities around the world.
I know we like to mimic US, but since they are bit behind in EV's (except Tesla) we think EV's are not mature, or technology is not feasible, or cost effective.

Please look at real sales of EV's in China, and Europe. Europe is increasing Solar installations ( France has a law for it for parking lots), and offshore Wind - renewable energy. Because they have realized only renewable energy is in their control, and not dependent on anyone else. They have unfavorable climate for Solar, but still investing in it. Pollution in China, Europe will decrease considerably, or is decreasing day by day !

Hybrids, were sure a success but it was 10 years back. EV's and not even Hydrogen is the way to go for Car transportation. Look at California, how many Hydrogen fuel stations it has ? H2 is cost prohibitive, and thus not feasible, and only Green Hydrogen is good, otherwise it is as good as usual Diesel, sometimes even bad, methane is released in the atmosphere.

People think H2 is easy, it is not, Toyota Mirai sold H2 powered car in think in 2014.
How many are using it today?

EV batteries with LFP – Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4/C) is better than NCM (Lithium Nickel Cobalt Manganese) since rare metals like Cobalt and Nickel are not required by mining, as well as IRON is abundant on earth.

LFP has advantage, they are much more safer than NCM
LFP has disadvantage, they are less energy dense than NCM, thus less driving range compared to NCM.

Coming to Hybrid Vs EV. Purely looking from Technical view, EV has few parts, less maintenance, and good for environment, VS 10 year old hybrid technology as of 2023.
(cost of EV, and reliable cars in India, will also increase in EV's as global companies, will stop making Diesel, or other hybrid powered cars, to reduce their manufacturing cost as well, Look at VW )

https://youtu.be/AGTjKJHu99c

https://youtu.be/4sn0ecqZgog