[carmayogi]

It's mid 2022 and EVs are all the buzz. Globally, vehicles with this type of powertrain are selling like hot cakes. Finding an EV without a waiting list stretching months is unlikely.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty, note that an EV is actually a BEV, a Battery Electric Vehicle. Be cautious of anyone who includes a Plug-in hybrid as an EV. These vehicles are neither here nor there and all major European countries have stopped supporting their sales with incentives.

EV? kWh? kW? Watt? What???
Learning about the EV world means learning new terms, but these aren't as confusing as they seem.

EV - Battery electric vehicle, featuring a large lithium ion (usually) battery, one or more motors and inverters.

kWh - A kilowatt hour is a unit of electricity. Think of it as liters, kilograms or gallons in the fossil fuel world. A Tesla Model 3 or Y share the same battery options between 55 kWh and 79 kWh useable. Note the word useable - it's because batteries always have a buffer to protect them. The 79 kWh pack mentioned here has 82 kWh gross capacity. Some manufacturers put larger or smaller buffers depending on their engineering decisions.

kW - A kilowatt is a unit of power. This is similar to bhp and has already been used in the EU for decades. A 150 bhp car is also a 110 kW car. Note that almost all EVs have ridiculous power figures and are fast. Electric motors allow this flexibility. All the world's high speed trains are electric, after all. Does this mean that, one day, our beloved team-bhp might have to become team-kw?

SOC - State of charge. Your battery charge in percentage.

ICE - Good old Internal Combustion Engine. With climate change, it seems to be that ICE are melting the ice.

Range & Efficiency
As EVs become a mature tech, we're seeing improvements in range & charging speeds. In a variety of operating conditions an efficient EV would do between 7-10 km per kWh. Efficient EVs include all Tesla models and, for the Indian context, the Tata Nexon. Generally, EVs that are converted from ICE platforms are not that efficient, so it's a good job by Tata to achieve this. By the calculation of 7-10km, a Model 3 Long Range should do 500-700km on a charge. There's a BIG caveat here. EVs are most efficient between 50-80 km/h. If you're doing highway runs, don't expect anything more than 7 km/kWh at triple digit speeds.

How much range do you need?
Probably, not as much as you think. Humans tend to need bathroom breaks & food when travelling long distances by road. In my two round trips from Mumbai to Bengaluru, nearly exactly 1000km, I always stopped thrice, each way. By this simple example, I really only needed 333 km per charge but assuming a safety margin probably a car with >450 km range would be sufficient. This is a far cry from the demands of people unwilling to change who say they want 700km or 1000km because their ICE car can do it. The reality is, not many of us can physically go so far. Here in the US, pretty much all the major highway routes have chargers located in food/rest stops. The idea is - drive, eat/toilet (while charging), drive, toilet (while charging) - rinse & repeat.

Another important consideration is the use case of the car. If this is your home's second car or if you do not ever take road trips, then practically any EV is enough for you. When we discuss charging below, it'll become clear why. A car roaming around Delhi or Chennai is unlikely to ever use more than ~100km on a single run.

Charging
There are two types of charging - Home or slow AC charging or Fast DC charging. AC charging means on a domestic plug essentially. This is perfect for overnight charging. DC fast charging is a bit more complicated because 'fast' chargers could have a peak output of anywhere between 50 kW & 350 kW. More on this in a bit.

For home/overnight charging, if you use a 3 pin plug in India with an 8 amp limit, you can expect approx 1.8 kW of charging power. Depending on the efficiency of your EV, that's about 9-18 km of range per hour because 1.8 kW charged for an hour results in 1.8 kWh in the battery, very simple to understand. If you use a higher capacity 'fat' 3 pin plug like we see on bigger air conditioners, you could do about 3.6 kW which would double the speed and half your charging time. For daily city use, let's say 100 km, you only need 11 hours of charging in a relatively inefficient EV. 11 hours sounds like a lot, but if you come home at 7pm and leave at 9am the next day, that's 14 hours! Cars are parked a lot over their lifetimes. They key is to have access to a plug where it's parked. This is something for apartment buildings, office parking lots, public lots, malls etc to consider. AC charging is also gentle on the battery and helps maintain a long life for the cells.

For DC fast charging, every car has a charging curve. Batteries charge the fastest at low SOC. This is the same as any rechargeable battery device. Our cell phones all charge pretty quickly from 10% to 80% and slowly thereafter. A Tesla Model 3 will charge at up to 250 kW (!!!) but just for a couple of minutes when the battery is below 30%. The key thing here is time to 80% or 90% so you can continue your trip. For proper, fast charging EVs like the Teslas, Hyundai's Ioniq 5, Kia EV 6, Porsches & Mercs, this means 25-40 minutes. For those on long road trips, planning a stop to coincide with food break means, in reality, not really waiting for the car to be ready. On several forums here in the US, you will find owners 'complaining' that the car is ready before they're ready to continue. DC charging all the time will degrade the battery a bit more. However, worry not, there are several examples of EVs with >300,000 km on their battery packs that still have 80-90% of their original range intact. You'd struggle to find a 300k km ICE car that does not need a major engine job.

For charging networks, there is one clear leader, Tesla. Tesla has over 35,000 supercharger stations globally. If you navigate using Google maps built-in to the car, it will tell you where you need to stop for a charge, how much you need to charge and how many spots are available in real time. All charging is plug & charge, so you stick the plug in and go away. The car will bill your credit card at the end of the session. This is the gold standard which will slowly be copied. For other brands, you need to rely on third party websites to pre-calculate your trip and some guess work on your consumption & range.

Other networks of note are Electrify America here in the US & Ionity in Europe.

Also note that most battery chemistries are best used between 10% & 80% SOC, particularly NMC & NCA chemistries. These batteries don't like being charged to 100% or drained to 0%. You can still do that, but do it while the car is in use. Do not park with a dead or full battery for several hours or days. This will lead to quicker battery degradation. Iron based battery chemistries, commonly known as LFP batteries are less sensitive, but these batteries tend to be heavier and work for lower-mid range cars or stationery energy storage.

Energy use
The reason EVs are being championed so hard is their energy efficiency. Between the power plant, transmission, charging & use of energy, the round trip efficiency is between 75-90%. In the US, we have a rating known as miles-per-gallon equivalent. Think of it as km/l equivalent. The most efficient EVs here are rated at 130-140 Mpge compared to 50 for the best ICE car. The actual quantity of energy being carried around in a long range EV is approx 9-12 liters of fuel. 9-12 liters can take you 500-700 km. Mind blowing! This is also the reason why an EV running off coal or natural gas power is still significantly cleaner than a fossil car. Furthermore, if the grid gets cleaner over the life of the car, the car automatically gets cleaner, something impossible in an ICE platform. Where possible, EVs can be coupled with solar, say if your office parking lot has a solar canopy. In this case, you can drive off the sun. Science fiction much?

Is an EV good for you?
In most cases, yes. Unless you're a hard-core road tripper, an EV will do just fine. These cars are more fun to drive with their zippy instant response, satisfying in stop-go traffic with regen braking & silent 'idling' and, most importantly, are virtually maintenance free. There are threads, even here on team-bhp, of owners who, after 3 yrs and 50k km had to change the air conditioner filter and wiper blades only, apart from tyre rotation & maintenance. In the long run, EVs will be a dagger to the heart of the dealer network. There's simply not much they can charge us for. Dealers will have to end up being body shops with small diagnostic teams for any mechanical issues.

Costly EVs
EVs are very expensive, still. However, a close analysis of Tesla's financials shows that they have gone from a loss making company to making over 30% gross margin on their cars. Toyota makes just 18% in comparison. Tesla is using a lack of supply to keep prices high. This bodes well for the future when we will see price reductions from production efficiency, scale & supply chain improvements. We're already seeing a slew of Chinese makes selling long range EVs at less than $30,000 - some even less than $20,000 in their domestic markets. For India, a price range between Rs 10 lakh to Rs 25 lakh would be the sweet spot. Currently, the American, European & Korean brands all start above that. Time will be our friend with EV pricing but is there time available for us to clean up our cities?

Our favorite brands
This is a bit of prediction time, but be prepared for some famous automotive names to either be in trouble or go bankrupt altogether. The EV revolution is similar to, although slower than, the mobile phone revolution. Today, there isn't a Panasonic phone (remember their ubiquitous cordless phones?) or a Nokia to buy. The same will happen with a bunch of slower moving car companies. For now, the signs look good for VW group, Hyundai-Kia & Ford amongst those that we know well. The Japanese brands are all behind the curve. Expect some pain, some bloodshed and a lot of consolidation in the next 5 years.

Some qualifying points

1. I mention Tesla a lot. They're the market leader with ~70% share in the US and have lead the revolution with excellent cars & excellent charging infrastructure. The Tesla Model Y is the world's best selling car by dollar value already and might overtake the significantly cheaper Corolla in pure unit numbers this year! Globally!
2. There will be edge use cases where today's EVs aren't suitable. Don't let that deter you. If it works for you, do it!
3. In day-to-day driving, you will not miss the noise, trust me. The smooth, silent progress of an EV through traffic is relaxing and stress relieving.
4. EVs are not likely to catch fire. With the data currently available, an ICE car is 10x more likely to catch fire. There are a lot of high profile news stories - ignore them. The data is overwhelming. EV fires, when they do happen, also tend to be slower to start. You can get out and get safe. Not necessarily the case if a few liters of fossil ignite immediately.
5. While better than ICE cars, EVs aren't completely environmentally friendly. If you can use public transport, cycling or walking, you'd be doing a whole lot more for the planet and for your health as well. Delhi Metro folk, I'm talking to you
6. As always, when considering a car, real owners and real opinions matter. A shout out to all the obsessively detail oriented members here at team-bhp that make this the place for real auto information.

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the EV section. Thanks for sharing!

Going to our homepage tomorrow

[soarersc300]

Excellent comprehensive post

Originally Posted by carmayogi

Also note that most battery chemistries are best used between 10% & 80% SOC, particularly NMC & NCA chemistries. These batteries don't like being charged to 100% or drained to 0%. You can still do that, but do it while the car is in use. Do not park with a dead or full battery for several hours or days. This will lead to quicker battery degradation. Iron based battery chemistries, commonly known as LFP batteries are less sensitive, but these batteries tend to be heavier and work for lower-mid range cars or stationery energy storage.

Just wanted to add a bit to the part about battery chemistry. LFPs are now found in half of Teslas manufactured last quarter and will over a period of time replace other Li ion chemestry options.

The thing is with LFP the usable range is same as actual range. Whereas in other types the usable range is about 60% of actual range (20 to 80). Usability here is both in terms of practicality of time needed during charging pit stops (you charge till 80 and drive off, makes more sense time wise) and also in terms of battery degradation.

So a 300 km range LFP BEV is almost the same as 500 km range BEV using NMC or NCA.

Some of the other advantages of LFP are:
1) Longer life (almost 10x charging cycles)
2) Stable at higher temperatures (helps in India)
3) Less prone to catch fire in event of accident
4) Environment friendly to manufacture
5) Raw materials more readily available

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by carmayogi

It's mid 2022 and EVs are all the buzz. Globally, vehicles with this type of powertrain are selling like hot cakes. Finding an EV without a waiting list stretching months is unlikely.

A nice write up, Simply put & Wonderfully said...
Would like to add the point of Over-The-Air (OTA) updates. This might be quite an interesting one going forward. With electric vehicles, OTA might be used to even modify engine / driving characteristics.
Good (improvement in performance)
OR
Bad (scary while driving/ bricked car???) is yet to be seen.

[arpanjha]

Originally Posted by carmayogi

Energy use
The reason EVs are being championed so hard is their energy efficiency. Between the power plant, transmission, charging & use of energy, the round trip efficiency is between 75-90%. In the US, we have a rating known as miles-per-gallon equivalent. Think of it as km/l equivalent. The most efficient EVs here are rated at 130-140 Mpge compared to 50 for the best ICE car. The actual quantity of energy being carried around in a long range EV is approx 9-12 liters of fuel. 9-12 liters can take you 500-700 km. Mind blowing! This is also the reason why an EV running off coal or natural gas power is still significantly cleaner than a fossil car. Furthermore, if the grid gets cleaner over the life of the car, the car automatically gets cleaner, something impossible in an ICE platform. Where possible, EVs can be coupled with solar, say if your office parking lot has a solar canopy. In this case, you can drive off the sun. Science fiction much?

Brilliant analogy here. Clears head of most people caught between biased preconceived notions and reality. Thanks.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by carmayogi

Energy use
The reason EVs are being championed so hard is their energy efficiency. Between the power plant, transmission, charging & use of energy, the round trip efficiency is between 75-90%.

Where possible, EVs can be coupled with solar, say if your office parking lot has a solar canopy. In this case, you can drive off the sun. Science fiction much?

That's very insightful. Power generation using turbines, etc is happening at near best efficiency at most times, whereas ICE energy efficiency varies a lot during the ICE operation due to varying rpm's ( especially the conventional otto cycle based ICEs), and hybrid ICE efficiency (Atkinson based) would be somewhere in between. So makes perfect sense for the green warriors. I am sold.

And yes solar is off the sun, which is an infinite source of energy for the foreseeable future.

If I think of it, the last century was an oil economy, whereas the current century could turn out to be a solar economy. Regions blessed with abundant sunshine could be generating surplus power and gradually reduce the dependence on polluting fossil fuels. Countries with oil and gas reserves could take a backseat. It may sound like fiction, but the next wave of colonization (not the British way, but the corporate way) could revolve around solar. Hint: Africa.

Yes we could breathe fresher air.

[starke]

Originally Posted by soarersc300

Some of the other advantages of LFP are:
1) Longer life (almost 10x charging cycles)
2) Stable at higher temperatures (helps in India)
3) Less prone to catch fire in event of accident
4) Environment friendly to manufacture
5) Raw materials more readily available

Just filling in the dots why then LFPs are still not a dominant choice among everyone is mainly due to its less energy density & specific energy, which Means less energy from the same volume/weight than an NMC.

As everyone is racing towards more energy to win the range race, NMC can pack more kWh in lesser volume.

Also not so highlighted part, but the recyclability factor of LFP is almost nill (only Li is extractable) when compared to the higher extraction rate on NMCs. This is important as once we have all these battery packs after End of Life, either re-use or recycle them to proceed for the next life-usage.

BYD battery packs are the benchmark on how to solve the energy density issue as they use extreme cell to pack and cell to chasiss architecture.

[SKC-auto]

In my two round trips from Mumbai to Bengaluru, nearly exactly 1000km, I always stopped thrice, each way. By this simple example, I really only needed 333 km per charge but assuming a safety margin probably a car with >450 km range would be sufficient. This is a far cry from the demands of people unwilling to change who say they want 700km or 1000km because their ICE car can do it.

If you have charging option at the destination, you just need a car with 250km of range, may be with buffer 300km real range, complete in 3 stops. Cars like MG ZS EV can easily do this, with careful driving even Nexon EV max can do the trip.

[enj0y_ride]

Thank you. Very nice write up. One point which will slower the adoption is that, most urban population who live in apartments do not have access to charging infrastructure ( I mean the slow overnight chargers ).
Even in the organisation where I work, they stopped providing charging facility in parking area. The reason is they are not able to give free access as the EV count increased. Since it's an SEZ, they can't charge from employees either.

[Lokesh Soni]

Nice writeup !!

Interesting fact: A bit more than 100 years back (~1910s), EVs were sold more than ICE vehicles. But then the provision/convenience of refueling the fuel in seconds led to ICE overtaking EVs (main reason). Battery technology was to poor back then, so we had put our full bandwidth in exploring on ICE technologies. Motor technology has not changed significantly in 100 years, they were as good as they are now.
Now after 100 years batteries' r&d is mature, still it is battery which is the major focus point in an EV r&d.

[soarersc300]

Originally Posted by starke

Just filling in the dots why then LFPs are still not a dominant choice among everyone is mainly due to its less energy density & specific energy, which Means less energy from the same volume/weight than an NMC.

As mentioned in my post, LFPs now contribute to 50% of Teslas manufactured as of today. They were almost 0% just a few years ago. So LFP is very much "the dominant" choice of the market leader, and also for other leading EV brands like BYD etc.

Originally Posted by starke

As everyone is racing towards more energy to win the range race, NMC can pack more kWh in lesser volume.

That is very much true. The energy density on NMC is more than one and a half times that of LFP. However in the real world when you take long journeys you will end up with a charging pit stop when your NMC battery drains to 20% and will charge till 80% and proceed. For LFP you can go down till almost 0% and charge all the way up till 100%. That's why I had mentioned for all practical purposes 300 km range in LFP is practically same as 500 km range in NMC.

Originally Posted by starke

Also not so highlighted part, but the recyclability factor of LFP is almost nill (only Li is extractable) when compared to the higher extraction rate on NMCs. This is important as once we have all these battery packs after End of Life, either re-use or recycle them to proceed for the next life-usage.

Agreed. But in defence of LFP we are getting batteries that will outlast the car, so for the individual car owner this recycling part doesn't affect the purchase decision when buying LFP battery EV.

Originally Posted by starke

BYD battery packs are the benchmark on how to solve the energy density issue as they use extreme cell to pack and cell to chasiss architecture.

BYD Blade batteries are now the gold standard because of the safety properties and that's because they are made using LFP chemistry.

Bottomline is that the market leaders like Tesla and BYD have meaningfully moved to LFP. It's only a matter of time that other brands follow suit. This will not happen instantly as there are other issues to take care of (long term battery purchase contracts, battery management software systems update etc). But 2 to 5 years down the line there's no doubt that LFPs will be in majority of the BEVs sold globally

[Vijay T]

Excellent thread.Very useful to fellow bhpians who are not coversant with BEV tech.

Very relevant to current times.

As name suggests, it clears many basic things about EV to a layman.

Would be interested to know life of NMC batteries v/s LFP batteries & why player like Mahindra could have chosen NMC over LFP if world is slowly shifting towards LFP?

[CarML]

Originally Posted by carmayogi

It's mid 2022 and EVs are all the buzz. Globally, vehicles with this type of powertrain are selling like hot cakes. Finding an EV without a waiting list stretching months is unlikely.[/list]

Although I had bits and pieces of knowledge by virtue of reading various articles, this well compiled write up gives a clear insight into the nuances of EV. Thank you!
I am contemplating a new car purchase in the next year or two. I always thought that range has to be close to 1000 km to consider EV as an option. But after reading your article, I am now open to considering it.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by Vijay T

Would be interested to know life of NMC batteries v/s LFP batteries & why player like Mahindra could have chosen NMC over LFP if world is slowly shifting towards LFP?

If Mahindra has less battery space then competition but wanted same or more range then the competition, you can't do that with a LFP.

NMC has more volts and more Ah for the same battery space requirement.

Take the MG ZS ev the 2022 model has a 50kwh LFP pack but the long range model (which has not been launched in India) has a 72kwh battery and because it uses a NMC battery, they are able to get more kwh.

This energy density disadvantage of LFP has been reduced with arrival of blade style LFP packs, which allow manufactures to make Cell to pack vs the traditional style of cell to module, then add module to make a battery pack and then add battery casing with thicker metal for structural strength.

[starke]

Originally Posted by soarersc300

As mentioned in my post, LFPs now contribute to 50% of Teslas manufactured as of today. They were almost 0% just a few years ago. So LFP is very much "the dominant" choice of the market leader, and also for other leading EV brands like BYD etc.

Yes, as for Q1 2022, they sold half with LFPs sourced from CATL and the trend in China is LFP biased. But their latest offering with 4680 is still NMC811 and their further Cell to Chassis is planned around NMC as per my internal information, so Tesla isn't completely moved to LFP, but to some % which they enjoy from their China factory & CATL collab.

Originally Posted by soarersc300

That is very much true. The energy density on NMC is more than one and a half times that of LFP. However in the real world when you take long journeys you will end up with a charging pit stop when your NMC battery drains to 20% and will charge till 80% and proceed. For LFP you can go down till almost 0% and charge all the way up till 100%. That's why I had mentioned for all practical purposes 300 km range in LFP is practically same as 500 km range in NMC.

Theoretically, as per protocol, we keep 10-15% SoC drain limit even on SoC in all OEMs, the only advantage is less deterioration over 100% SoC on calendar life. Again, as long as we go for cell to pack or minimal modules, LFPs can stay near to NMC and less cell V means we need more cells to get to the 450V+ global.

In 5 years, ASSB/SSSB will become more dominant, so LFP will stay around for the affordable segment of BEVs.

Originally Posted by soarersc300

Agreed. But in defence of LFP we are getting batteries that will outlast the car, so for the individual car owner this recycling part doesn't affect the purchase decision when buying LFP battery EV.

BYD Blade batteries are now the gold standard because of the safety properties and that's because they are made using LFP chemistry.

Bottomline is that the market leaders like Tesla and BYD have meaningfully moved to LFP. It's only a matter of time that other brands follow suit. This will not happen instantly as there are other issues to take care of (long term battery purchase contracts, battery management software systems update etc). But 2 to 5 years down the line there's no doubt that LFPs will be in majority of the BEVs sold globally

For the end user, they don't worry about what kind of chemistry as long as the OEM provides standard warranty procedures, and recycling part isn't a concern of the end-user, but heavily affected to the OEMs as every govt. is now drafting strict recyclable content factor rule which will force battery makers to include min % of recyclable RM + maximum recycling extraction efficiency after EoL.

So OEMs have to choose between two and primarily, the main driver for LFP is its initial cost of purchase. If NCA/NMCs were cheaper, everyone will go after the same. Once the recycling process is fully sorted out, NMC will make a come back as the cost goes down, but like I said, within 5 years there will be a shift to next-generation traction energy, so will have to wait n see.