[CCRider]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Can you list the specific problems you are facing? Else your post looks like an unsubstantiated rant.

I drove my niece's petrol AMT Tiago in Chennai 2 months ago and found it very nice.

I had a Tiago AMT which I drove for about 5k kms. When I first did the test drive I did not realize it but in regular driving conditions the AMT gear switching was so bad and so lagged that I eventually sold it for that reason only. Almost every time I needed it to pick up from rest quickly espcially in critical situations , like taking a U turn or taking a right from a traffic signal, i.e. when you need to move quickly to avoid traffic coming from the opposite direction, the lag would be felt terribly and it would put me at risk because I couldn't move fast enough. For the same reason I never allowed my wife to drive it.

I now bought a Santro AMT which is way better than the Tiago AMT.
But if I had known about the Tiago EV would launch I would have waited and got that though. Having drive the Tigor Ev and the MG ZS EV, I know that nothing can beat the drivability of an EV.

[ashokabs]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar82

I own a Tiago Petrol XZA+ and if my experiences with that "petrol" or "IC" car (which is an old technology as such and should be perfected by now at least) to go by then I pray for the persons who go for the "EV" which is something Tata is not an expert at (unlike folks like Tesla).....

Right now, I have decided the best way not to spend more money on my Tiago is never to drive it (that way it can't break-down and cost me money) ... not sure this is what owning a car means

Every one in a while someone gets a lemon. Guess you were the unlucky one! That really is bad luck. I bought a Tiago XZ in 2016 and I am a very happy customer with 40000 km on the clock. Except for one problem with fuel flow which took some time to resolve it has been totally trouble free. I've recommended to several friends and they too have been satisfied with the performance.

I would happily buy their Tiago EV.

[anand.shankar82]

Originally Posted by ashokabs

Every one in a while someone gets a lemon. Guess you were the unlucky one! That really is bad luck. I bought a Tiago XZ in 2016 and I am a very happy customer with 40000 km on the clock. Except for one problem with fuel flow which took some time to resolve it has been totally trouble free. I've recommended to several friends and they too have been satisfied with the performance.

I would happily buy their Tiago EV.

Maybe I am unlucky ... I just hope that anyone buying a Tiago EV (which Tata was never known for) will not be as unlucky as me. I wish you the best

[fiat_tarun]

Kudos to Tata to bring in a much more affordable EV. While everyone is calling this the mass market EV and the beginning of a shift, etc., I still see this as a niche. It will be bought as a second car as a city runabout and will very rarely be the primary car for the family.

I have seen data on how current EV's are charged and >90% of owners charge at home. Public charging is more like an insurance and cannot be the primary source of charging. Covered parking is a luxury that the larger public in general does not have and hence will be the biggest problem I see. Talking to colleagues, I understand this is a problem world over (e.g. cities in the UK) but of course on a smaller scale than in India.

Even the best estimates project that India will have only 15% private 4W EV's (best case) and 10% (most likely) by 2030. 2W, 3W and buses will definitely transition.

Originally Posted by speedguy

...India has 225 registered cars per 1000 people, which is amongst lowest in the world. In other words, this means 775 people out of 1000 have no exposure to the jargon we petrol-heads or now EV-heads talk about. ...

The 225 figure includes 2 wheelers as well. If you look at only cars it is around 30 cars per 1000 people !

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

Covered parking is a luxury that the larger public in general does not have and hence will be the biggest problem I see.

Disagree, most car owners buy cars when they have parking space, they buy cars atleast if they have sufficient space to park on the road infront of their houses. I have rarely seen someone parking 100m away from their home. May be we can have a poll on this here.

Charging at apartments is a different question, as more and more EVs come to the market more RWAs are looking for solutions.

[man_and_machine]

Originally Posted by speedguy

There are some grave mistakes in the calculation of yours. But I believe you want to say that Tiago/Tigor are underpowered cars.

Originally Posted by SatheeshBHP

First Lets use correct unit. It is in kW. TATA website is wrong. 1kW = ~0.735 ps.

Right, thanks for pointing that out. What I meant was PS is rpm times toque and I guess I wanted add the RPM as the variable for the possible tall gearing than the PS, which is the outcome. The 45 is the output not variable, correct.
So 45 = (tall gear ratio) X xRPM X 110 v/s the nexus should be the right equation. And that gear ratio is where the experience diff lies.
But, you got the drift, for the power to PS and charge and total capacity it's a lot smaller, not very usable/practical as an overall package was my point.

Originally Posted by Nikhil Beke

Have you test-driven any of these vehicles yet? I'm assuming you haven't (apologies if I'm wrong here). Please do- and with as open mind as possible.

Right, nobody here has test driven the car, and these are initial impressions, thoughts and analysis from what data we have to. Why do you think/opinion I would not have an open mind while driving it? I guess I mentioned it in the post, I would gladly buy one if this makes sense.

Originally Posted by ajayc123

With due respect to your calculations, which I couldn't understand much, i have a simple question:

0 -60 is just a sticker metric that EVs have stated to use. It does not really give any picture on the drivability. Point is case, the Jeep meridian touted 0 - 60 numbers, but no one agrees its a fast car of the block.

Actually PM motors always have their highest torque at 0 rpm, or at start. That is the nature of the Electic motors, so I would not read much into the - 60 etc. Its also in this phase that motor draws the most power (current, PMS motors close in on the voltage close to their synchronous speeds, so voltage catches up gradually and hence the amperage of current drawn in higher during the 0 - 60), so ideally you would not want to be doing a lot of 0 - 60s.

It's not just the numbers, its the overall packaging that might hurt TATA is my opinion. Affordability too soon in a growing sector where the performance and ownership experience are not fully understood might just be a costly experiment.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by man_and_machine

0 -60 is just a sticker metric that EVs have stated to use. It does not really give any picture on the drivability. Point is case, the Jeep meridian touted 0 - 60 numbers, but no one agrees its a fast car of the block.

Since this sticker metric for all 3 EVs Tiago, Tigor, Nexon is 5.7 +/- 1 second, I would expect the drivability of all 3 to be comparable/ close. Why do you expect drivability of Tiago/ Tigor to be drastically inferior to Nexon, as you have stated in your original post?

In city roads one usually doesn't get to do 0-60 in 6 seconds anyway, but the idea is to reach desired speed as needed and not pedal to metal.

[man_and_machine]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

SWhy do you expect drivability of Tiago/ Tigor to be drastically inferior to Nexon, as you have stated in your original post?

In city roads one usually doesn't get to do 0-60 in 6 seconds anyway, but the idea is to reach desired speed as needed and not pedal to metal.

Exactly the right point. How does the car feel drive in the 30 - 70 band, is characterised by the motor output, and my point too. the 45 PS motor, lugging 1.2 tons on a 19 kWh battery with shorter ranges and charge cycles is why it might be a package too cut to the bone to give a useful experience. At that sticker price, is that a good experiment? Its not expensive an experiment on manufacturing, as the part bin can be fully repurposed. But on first time EV buyers at the entry level, you want it to be a Santro that rings the right bells not something that is short of it. 10L is not cheap, would you buy one just because it's a cheap EV or because it's the right one. I have my doubts.

[learning_cars]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Disagree, most car owners buy cars when they have parking space, they buy cars atleast if they have sufficient space to park on the road infront of their houses. I have rarely seen someone parking 100m away from their home. May be we can have a poll on this here.

Charging at apartments is a different question, as more and more EVs come to the market more RWAs are looking for solutions.

I think this is true but still doesn't mean that most people can get the charging sorted. While in the UK, I saw charging boxes of houses easily accessible from the road for anyone but not sure we are going to risk doing the same in India. There are ways to lock these units but atleast in my mind, you need an enclosed space to park to be able to charge with peace of mind.

Going by the kind of houses I see around me in Gurgaon, I see very little potential for charging in planned sectors. They mostly have apartments or houses where different floors are owned by different families( some do buy the complete building but those people are rare). Having a 24 hours electricity supply to instill confidence is lacking as well here.

This is definitely not true for all places and a specially in Tier 2/3 cities, most car buyers do have a home with parking. The continuous electricity supply situation coupled with low public charging penetration might not be ideal. But with 2W revolution, this all might change for the good.

I am definitely curious to see the adoption of Tiago EV because the price point is crazy and I still wonder why Maruti dumped WagonR EV which could have come in at the same price(the lower taxes are definitely helping).

Also this kills MGs plans with their stupid 2 door EV they wanted to bring to India. Tiago is just so much more digestable to the masses compared to that toy looking car.

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Since this sticker metric for all 3 EVs Tiago, Tigor, Nexon is 5.7 +/- 1 second, I would expect the drivability of all 3 to be comparable/ close. Why do you expect drivability of Tiago/ Tigor to be drastically inferior to Nexon, as you have stated in your original post?

In city roads one usually doesn't get to do 0-60 in 6 seconds anyway, but the idea is to reach desired speed as needed and not pedal to metal.

Originally Posted by man_and_machine

Exactly the right point. How does the car feel drive in the 30 - 70 band, is characterised by the motor output, and my point too. the 45 PS motor, lugging 1.2 tons on a 19 kWh battery with shorter ranges and charge cycles is why it might be a package too cut to the bone to give a useful experience. At that sticker price, is that a good experiment? Its not expensive an experiment on manufacturing, as the part bin can be fully repurposed. But on first time EV buyers at the entry level, you want it to be a Santro that rings the right bells not something that is short of it. 10L is not cheap, would you buy one just because it's a cheap EV or because it's the right one. I have my doubts.

I am guessing the source of confusion is there are two Tigor electric versions, the first called XPRES-T is much lower power (~40 PS) than the 2021 Tigor EV. The 2021 Tigor EV has ~75 PS and is not that much of a downgrade from Nexon in drivability.

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by wocanak

I am guessing the source of confusion is there are two Tigor electric versions, the first called XPRES-T is much lower power (~40 PS) than the 2021 Tigor EV. The 2021 Tigor EV has ~75 PS and is not that much of a downgrade from Nexon in drivability.

Missed to add that Tiago EVs are again ~75 PS (LR) and ~60 PS (MR), so other than original the XPRES-T there is no Tigor/Tiago EV which is ~40/45 PS.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar82

I own a Tiago Petrol XZA+ and if my experiences with that "petrol" or "IC" car (which is an old technology as such and should be perfected by now at least) to go by then I pray for the persons who go for the "EV" which is something Tata is not an expert at (unlike folks like Tesla)

I beg to differ with you sir.
TATA MOTORS Shailesh Chandra has acknowledged that all Indian manufacturers are 2 generations behind Europeans and Japanese and a Gen and a half behind the Koreans coz we have begun making cars only in the recent past. But when it comes to electrics we are on par with the world. Tesla too is no great car, coz it TATA too start pricing cars at the rate charged by Tesla, then we too can give great technology and features. I have bought a NEXON EV MAX and have done 2.5k and I am really impressed by the car. Let Tesla launch cars at TATA's price points and look at the end result.

Originally Posted by anand.shankar82

Price is below par because the product is below par is what I can say as an active owner of a petrol-Tiago ... I pray no one from this esteemed forum falls for this pricing and buys what can become a monster-child to spend more money than we do on our actual children even

I think it will be a good move to pick up the electric variant, coz there is no rocket science. All electrics will be the same for now until new battery technology is invented and there is no fuss of half baked ICE engine as even TATA is not in s position to develop a new engine ground up at this juncture.

Originally Posted by anand.shankar82

Right now, I have decided the best way not to spend more money on my Tiago is never to drive it (that way it can't break-down and cost me money) ... not sure this is what owning a car means

I am really sorry for the lemon you got, but there are many happy customers out there and car commands a decent resale value too.

[sumannandy]

Does Tiago EV support charging from 50 KW DC Charger? Or is it limited to max 25 KW DC Charger.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by sumannandy

Does Tiago EV support charging from 50 KW DC Charger? Or is it limited to max 25 KW DC Charger.

It can be charged from a 50kw, 100kw, 150kw charger but kw will be according to what the battery demands.

[Nanolover]

Point is the Tigor ev is adequately powered and refinement and drivability wise infinitely better than the petrol counterparts. And the single worse component that is the AMT is also gone for good.

If anyone is expecting a JTP level ev performance and range of 400+ and within 10lakhs it is just a pipedream. Come to think of it- if there were no Tata EVs for us to buy, how else could we experience this technology in India for a reasonable price? Buy a Mahindra verito or a Reva? I would rather walk than get into those contraptions.